Trinol 105mm lens on 4x5 camera?????

[tonyowen]

Out of curiosity has anyone any experience or thoughts as to using a Trinol Anastigmat 105mm f3.5 (lens head) on a 4x5 camera?

In a rough setup it seems to cover the 4x5 area and I know that a shutter or exposure timing device is needed.

regards

Tony

[Bob Salomon]

Sounds like it is an enlarging lens.

[Dan Fromm]

The VM says that it is a triplet taking lens for 35 mm cameras. Sold in LTM and Exakta mounts. Made by National Optical Company to a TTH design.

If you're lucky, Tony, it will cover 110 mm. Cover in the sense of put good quality image in, not in the sense of illuminate. The VM says "of good but not outstanding performance."

[B.S.Kumar]

Try Em All :)
You may like the results. If not, at least you tried.

Kumar

[Bob Salomon]

If it is a 35mm camera lens then you will never get it to focus to infinity on a 45 camera, especially if you stick it into a shutter. Might do nice macro shots though. Especially if reversed mounted.

[tonyowen]

then you will never get it to focus to infinity on a 45 camera.
Don't know about infinity, but with the lens mounted in a rough and ready wooden lens board I was able to focus (on GG with loupe) on a promontory and lighthouse 5 miles out across the Irish Sea.

regards

Tony

[Bob Salomon]

Don't know about infinity, but with the lens mounted in a rough and ready wooden lens board I was able to focus (on GG with loupe) on a promontory and lighthouse 5 miles out across the Irish Sea.

regards

Tony
Tony,
A lens has a flange focal length. That is the distance from the mounting flange to the film plane that is required for the lens to be in focus at infinity. As you know, that distance is very short on a 35mm camera compared to a view camera. The focusing tube that a 35mm lens has is made to meet the FFL requirements of your camera. You have not stated if your lens is the one that mounts to a 39mm Leica screw mount thread or an Exacta bayonet mount. But, in either case the FFL would be too short for use on a view camera and such a lens would not have enough USEABLE coverage for a 45 sheet of film, much less for any movements.

Now, you wrote that you mounted the "lens head" which applies that it has been removed from the focusing barrel or, is what Leica called a Short Mount lens for 35mm. In that case it would achieve infinity focus when it is extended a distance equal to the focusing barrel's length.
And then you need to add the thickness of the shutter which will also affect infinity focus.

When you say that you have checked it on the gg is that with in the center or at the edges and corners? After all, for 45, they all need to be sharp.

[IanG]

Yes but were the corners visible, Having tried a Ross Xpres 105mm f3.8 and a Tominon 105mm f4.5 on my Wista both visulally cover (illuminate) the screen at all apertures. Don't expect good sharpness at the edges and corners although that will improve stopped right down.

The Trinol isn't specifically a 35mm lens any more than the Schneider 360mm f5,5 Tele Xenar which covers 7x5 but sold also with an M42 or Exacta focus mount. In fact the head of one of Leica's own longer lenses can be used as a 5x4 lens because like the Trinol these aren't telephoto designs.

Ian

[tonyowen]

Dear Ian and Bob

The lens head (without Exakta/Leica bellows or other focusing tube) was fitted alone into the lens board. Because of Bob's infinity question, the chosen distant object was in the centre of the GG. [ I did not think to set it at one side or at one corner, because I was answering the infinity question in isolation, and assumed that the question would relate to an important part of the scene and would [to my mind] be central to the image.
I had the lens wide open at f3.5. The chosen scene was over open sea with a clear sky so nothing definitive to check focus on the sides and corners EXCEPT that there was no apparent loss of focus over the 4x5 screen.
regard to you both

Tony

[Bob Salomon]

Dear Ian and Bob

The lens head (without Exakta/Leica bellows or other focusing tube) was fitted alone into the lens board. Because of Bob's infinity question, the chosen distant object was in the centre of the GG. [ I did not think to set it at one side or at one corner, because I was answering the infinity question in isolation, and assumed that the question would relate to an important part of the scene and would [to my mind] be central to the image.
I had the lens wide open at f3.5. The chosen scene was over open sea with a clear sky so nothing definitive to check focus on the sides and corners EXCEPT that there was no apparent loss of focus over the 4x5 screen.
regard to you both

Tony

In photography the important parts of a scene are not in just the center, in fact the most important parts may not be in the center at all. Read up on the rule of thirds and S curves in composition as well as perspective.

[tonyowen]

160599 160600 160601

Not the Trinol lens, but a Wray SUPAR Series 11* 4 ¼“ f4.5 lens on a 4x5 camera

Unflashed paper negative, rated ISO 6 [Multigrade MGIV, Pearl - 8x10 sheet cut into 4 pieces each trimmed to fit into a 4x5 darkslide]. Developed in Jobo drum - Ilford PQ Universal for 1m. Calumet CC400 monorail camera. [The fourth negative had no image, or any indication of an image, on it.]. The exposure timings were on the basis of “one second, two second” etc, after removing the “lens hood” (cap off a spray can)

For this test there was no attempt for ascetically correct images. The test was only for the purpose of determining converges in a 4x5 camera, and the type/quality of resulting image. Simply setup, focus, measure exposure, set aperture, remove darkslide, remove lens cap, count second(s), replace lens cap, replace darkslide.

* A lens collector's vade mecum, Version 07/05/2001 (M. Wilkinson and C. Glanfield)

The following three images were scanned {HP 3520 all-in-one), flipped and inverted. No other PS procedures, no cropping of negative

SEA VIEW
Wray Supar 4 ¼ f4.5 lens, 1s at f27 [#32 setting] {Weston meter reflected reading 12 ½ }
Focused on a distance object, obviously lost on result
10/10 overcast white cloud sky

GARDEN
Wray Supar 4 ¼ f4.5 lens, 2s at f13.5 [#8 setting] {Weston meter reflected reading 9 }.
10/10 overcast white cloud sky

PORTRAIT
Wray Supar 4 ¼ f4.5 lens set at f9 [#4 setting]
Subject to lens distance circa 1m. Taken in darkened room, “lens cap” removed for a total of 20-25s. Exposed using hand held electronic flash (set on manual and hitting test button) rated GN46 with subject to flash distance circa 1 ½ to 2m

regards

Tony

[Dan Fromm]

Tony, at least two concepts of coverage are used in this forum. One is "illuminates the frame." The other is "puts good detail in the corners."

Your trial shots show that the lens doesn't quite illuminate the frame.

Your trial shots don't address at all whether the lens puts good detail in the corners. Your carefully chosen subjects have no detail in the corners.

Spend the money, get and use proper lenses for 4x5 that put good detail outside of the frame so that you can take advantage of decentering movements when they're needed.

[tonyowen]

Dan, it was purely curiosity - subjects not chosen or carefully positioned to address/avoid issues.
Comment about spending money is 'unfortunate'
regards
Tony

[Randy]

Tony, have a blast with it - I took a 105mm Agfa Apotar off an Agfa Billy Record II and used it on 4X5. I enjoy soft corners.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/52893762/swirl2.jpg

[tonyowen]

Tony, have a blast with it

Randy, thank you for the positive reaction to my experimentation.

regards

Tony