Rodinal Dilution for 4x5 film

[cinetango]

Hi everyone,

Tomorrow I have some time to develop my first shots with a LF camera. In the smaller format world I have used HC-100 as my developer. Now I want to try Rodinal...
from what I have read, the dilution is 1+50. Is this correct for 4x5 paper film? What recipes do you guys use with Rodinal? I shot T-Max 400 and HP5.

Thanks in advance for all the advice...

Raul

[Leigh]

Hi Raul,

I've used Rodinal for many decades with slow films (100ASA). I absolutely love it.

I suggest you start with the 1+50 dilution, then move up or down if needed.
Dilutions over the range of 1+25 to 1+100 are commonly used.

It may not be the best choice for higher-speed (400) film since it's not specifically "fine grain".
Obviously you must decide for yourself whether or not the results are optimal.
I have no recommendations for fast films since I don't shoot them.

- Leigh

[faberryman]

Paper film?

[cinetango]

Paper film?

t-max 4x5 paper film
HP5 4x5 paper film

[cinetango]

Hi Raul,

I've used Rodinal for many decades with slow films (100ASA). I absolutely love it.

I suggest you start with the 1+50 dilution, then move up or down if needed.
Dilutions over the range of 1+25 to 1+100 are commonly used.

It may not be the best choice for higher-speed (400) film since it's not specifically "fine grain".
Obviously you must decide for yourself whether or not the results are optimal.
I have no recommendations for fast films since I don't shoot them.

- Leigh

Thank you Leigh
Good point in regards to the ISO...
I will provably try both HC-110 and Rodinal to be able to compare them both...

[Leigh]

A word about the concentrate and dilution...

A 500 ml bottle of concentrate is rated to develop 50 "sheets" of film.

That works out to 10 ml per sheet*.

You must always use at least that amount of concentrate per sheet regardless of the dilution.

- Leigh

*Note: A "sheet" of film is any combination that can be proofed on a single 8x10 sheet of paper, so
one 8x10 film or four 4x5 films or one 120 roll or one 35mm-36exposure roll.

[koraks]

I've developed 4 to 6 sheets of tmax100 in 1 liter of 1+100 rodinal several times. This is surely pushing the limits a bit in terms of developer volume per sheet. I would hesitate developing any 400 speed film in rodinal; not just because of the grain (which is usually not so much of a problem with sheet film), but because most films are up to a stop slower in rodinal.

[Leigh]

but because most films are up to a stop slower in rodinal.
I've never found that to be true in several decades of using it.

I only shoot slow films, so perhaps faster films lose speed.

Or perhaps their box speed is "optimistic" in the first place, since I've heard similar comments with fast films in other developers.


- Leigh

[Doremus Scudder]

t-max 4x5 paper film
HP5 4x5 paper film

Sheet film (as opposed to roll film).

Paper is photographic printing paper to make prints with. I suspect that there is a translation problem going on here.

Doremus

[koraks]

I've never found that to be true in several decades of using it.

I can't speak for all films, but e.g. Fomapan 100 is about 50 in rodinal, but around 80 in e.g. pyrocat. With TMX I found the difference less obvious. It depends on the film and more importantly on your requirements in terms of shadow detail. Perhaps my statement was a bit too bold, but especially for films like HP5+, rodinal wouldn't be my first choice if I wanted to shoot at box speed and still get decent shadow detail.

[locutus]

I've been developing FP4 in Rodinal 1+25 and my exposures at ISO 125 are fine.

Of course does doesn't mean that all my shutters might be a stop off and this coincides with the speed loss or whatever :-)

As always try yourself as there are so many variables.

[Willie]

Mixed into Rodinal, Sodium Ascorbate increases the alkalinity of the developer, and with that, the rate of developing increases.
If you want a bit finer grain and shorter developint times try adding Sodium Ascorbate to Rodinal. Note that "finer grain" may be subjective with some films. Also for every experiment you might not notice much of a change or it may not be to your taste or expectations.

Below from Martin Zimelka.

http://www.martinzimelka.com/homepage/Blog/Entries/2012/8/21_Rodinal_with_Sodium_Ascorbate.html

The additive doesn’t affect that “Rodinal look” but it does make the grain appear a little finer, as well as shortening developing times - which is a blessing. As a rough guideline, for Rodinal 1:50 + SodAsc, use Rodinal 1:25 developing times. Appropriately, the developing time for Rodinal 1:100 + SodAsc, use Rodinal 1:50 times. It’s recommended to use only 1gr / litre of Sodium Ascorbate per 5ml of Rodinal concentrate. ie 4gr for 1 litre of Rodinal 1:50 developing solution.

--------------------------------

My Uncle tried it and liked it and used it for some time with negatives up to 8x20 until Sandy King came out with Pyrocat HD. He tried that one and now it is all he uses and since he taught me LF it is what I use. Why re-invent the wheel?

As he reminds me only too often you can pick almost any combination you want and get good results. Beautiful work comes from consistent work habits, knowing your tools and actually producing images. There is no "silver bullet".

[Michael Graves]

Rodinal is my favorite developer. I shoot HP5 at an ISO of 200, and develop it in Rodinal for 10 minutes at 68°. As Leigh points out, this is not a fine-grained developer. However, it delivers a very crisp grain pattern that I find appealing, so when the grain does start to appear, it is not much of a distraction. For one thing, with 4 x 5, you have to have a relatively large print size before that became an issue.

[Eric Biggerstaff]

Been using Rodinal for decades as well, on everything from FP4+, HP5, Tmax and Delta films. I love it but it does have a look. If you are wanting that sort of soft glow that Tmax films are known for then the Tmax developers are a good bet. That said, I am very partial to the look of Rodinal and it is easy to use, but you do need to do some testing with your development method and light meter. I get full speed when I use my Pentax Digital meter but slightly less than that when I use my Metered Light Pocket Spot, so testing helps.

I use Rodinal at 1+50 in a Jobo Expert drum and have 7 minutes as my "N" development time. The 1+50 ratio is a good starting point and then you can alter the times from there based on testing and experience.

[koraks]

Mixed into Rodinal, Sodium Ascorbate increases the alkalinity of the developer
I doubt that, as sodium ascorbate is the conjugate base of ascorbate and as such will add very little alkalinity to already very alkaline rodinal. However, para-aminophenol and ascorbate are super additive, which explains the increased activity when both are combined. I doubt it has much to do with the small change in ph though. Otherwise, the addition of plain old NaOH would have the same effect - or even more so.
I can't comment on the qualitative differences between rodinal and rodinal-C (or however one would choose to call it - perhaps Crodinal?) I do however frequently use Pat Gainer's vitamin C developer and that works really well, is easy to make and quite economical.

[cinetango]

Thanks everyone!! very helpful tips! I will test the T-Max in Rodinal and the HP5 in HC110. The photos that I took are for testing only. It was the first time using a LF camera and wanted to play around with it. To say the least I was completely overwhelm by the camera, it is such a different world compare to medium and 35mm format...But loved the slowness of it and the premeditation of every photo. I started testing with New55 PN follow by Tmax and HP5.

Thanks again

[koraks]

Yes, working with sheet film and view cameras is an entirely different experience. You tend to get hooked and build muscle mass fast ;)

[Leigh]

TI will test the T-Max in Rodinal and the HP5 in HC110.
Regarding films...

My standard film is Fuji Neopan Acros (commonly just "Acros") in all formats 35mm, 120, and 4x5.
They make it i 8x10, but nobody imports that size to the US. It's available from Kumar in Tokyo.

It has a somewhat unique look that I find quite appealing. Shadow detail is excellent.
It has no "shoulder" as such. The density just keeps on increasing forever, so you can't blow highlights.

- Leigh

[Keith Fleming]

I recommend doing an internet search for Massive Development Chart, which lists virtually all films and developers. The chart gives times and dilutions for all combinations of film and developer. Of course, these are starting points for determining your preferred dilution of the developer and your preferred film.

Keith

[Ted R]

Unfortunately the manufacturer's information sheet gives almost zero information.

There is some discussion of the special properties of Rodinal here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodinal