View Full Version : backpacking with a Tiltall?
Call me crazy, but I love the design of the classic Tiltall - robust, simple, elegant, functional - and I'm wondering if it would make for a good travel/hiking/backpacking tripod? At over 6lbs, I understand that is getting a bit on the heavy side, but for the extra stability it offers, is it worth it? I would be using this with a Technika III, sometimes with a relatively heavy, 1.5lbs Wista sliding 6x9 back/loupe combo I've adapted for use on it. I would probably also use it with a Mamiya Super 23.
As a student, I don't have a lot of money to spend (the Technika III was the deal of a century, as was much of my other equipment) but I of course don't want to cheap out on a tripod. While a different animal, I've also considered this: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/994930-REG/sirui_bsrn1004x_n_1004x_aluminum_tripod.html
Your thoughts would be much appreciated! I currently backpack with an old Linhof Report, though it's a bit questionable for use with medium format, let alone a field camera.
Thank you!
Leszek Vogt
16-Jan-2017, 22:39
Here is my philosophy. Get the best tripod you can afford (preferably 3-leg without mid column) and carbon fiber for light weight....something that would last many years. This would allow you to shoot 4x5....tho you may have to get something even more sturdy for larger formats. I've seen folks (a hint) with 1/2 closet of tripods and none of them performed as desired. Don't forget to obtain really good tripod head, as well.
Les
Thanks for your reply Les. I would say $270 CAD is about as much as I can spend right now. As far as build quality and strength goes, I'm sure the classic Tiltall falls into the category of what is good (aside from weight, of course). What are your thoughts on the Sirui tripod? They come in both CF and aluminum versions, although the weight difference seems to be negligible in this case. I haven't heard much about them, but from what I have heard, they are well regarded products. Above all else, I want a tripod that lasts me well. After all, that's why I bought a Technika. The Tiltall can do that, from what I hear - what about others like the Sirui, or similar products at that price point?
An original Leitz or Marchioni Tiltall is a good tripod for schlepping around with a lighter field, press, or monorail camera by itself, but for backpacking might be harder to mount on a pack... For street use, get an artist's easel bag from an art store or long pouch case that makes it easy to carry around...
For smaller (shorter) tripods, there will be more leg sections + locks, so the locks better be good, or they can slip with your rig on it... The heights are usually limited on the legs, and the center column extensions are often the worst part, so a pod without one is a good bet overall...
There are now MANY different CF tripods on the market for different prices, but I have seen some that look strong from a distance, but up close, often junk with many plastic locks, poor design, awful heads, etc... (You can tell if a black lock or part is plastic or metal by touching it in a temperate room, where metal will feel cool to the touch (as it draws heat from your finger) but plastic feels warmer as it reflects your heat...
I went to a superstore and saw 2 different import medium tripods (one slightly bigger for $189, and one slightly smaller for $129), and proceeded to test them in the store... To my surprise, the cheaper one was much better than the other more expensive one, with better locks (screw knobs instead of those awfully flimsy breakable lever locks), didn't flex when twisted, didn't ring when hit, more metal, etc... And these were from the same company (Benro, I think)... The heads looked barely passable for light digital use, so another head would be in order ($$$)...
So my point is it is easy to play "tripod roulette" if buying online a cheaper tripod, and there might be some OK ones your (medium) size, but if you can't actually check them out in person before buying, you will probably make a mistake buying one sight unseen... (Reviews online might be near useless, as many users have little experience using different tripods...)
Saving a little extra to buy from one of the established makers is wise, or you can start filling up the back of the closet with unwanted tripods...
Steve K
In my younger days, I traveled far afield with a Marchioni Bros. and a Calumet CC-400 4x5 along with enough gear to last a week in the wilds (roughly 60lbs). How much weight you are willing to carry is entirely up to you.
Jim Jones
17-Jan-2017, 08:08
Cameras come and go, but a good tripod lasts a lifetime. I bought my first Tiltall in 1969, and have bought four more American made Tiltalls since then. One was sold, one was lost, one was given to a friend, one is kept in the car, and one in the house. Another half a dozen tripods are rarely used. The Tiltall has adequately supported a 5x7 flatbed with a 21 inch lens. It comes with a good three-axis head. A sling attached to a Tiltall makes hiking with it easier. Other tripods may be lighter, more convenient to use, and sturdier. They may even last as long, but my Tiltalls will certainly outlast me. I have no experience with the recently imported Tiltalls.
Bill_1856
17-Jan-2017, 09:03
At SIX pounds including the excellent tilt/pan head, you'd have to spend hundreds of dollars to get something even a pound lighter.
I've done a fair bit of hiking with a Tiltall. It's not light, but it strapped well onto my backpack and allowed me to shoot with a full RZ67 kit on some rough terrain.
Jeff Keller
17-Jan-2017, 10:37
6 lbs for tripod + head isn't especially heavy. A series 3 Gitzo carbon fiber tripod is close to 4 lbs, then add a head and you'll be at 5 lbs or more.
The main limitation of a Tiltall is that it doesn't get right down to ground level which is more important with a SLR than large format.
With the relatively light weight cameras you are using the tall design of the Tiltall head probably won't be a problem and you say you like it. Both of the cameras you are using have a short base so that you can't slide the camera forward/backward to center the weight over the tripod head but you may still want to put an Arca Swiss style clamp on the head so that you can quickly mount/remove your camera from the tripod.
I would think the Tiltall would be a good choice for you.
jeff
6 lbs for tripod + head isn't especially heavy. A series 3 Gitzo carbon fiber tripod is close to 4 lbs, then add a head and you'll be at 5 lbs or more.
The main limitation of a Tiltall is that it doesn't get right down to ground level which is more important with a SLR than large format.
With the relatively light weight cameras you are using the tall design of the Tiltall head probably won't be a problem and you say you like it. Both of the cameras you are using have a short base so that you can't slide the camera forward/backward to center the weight over the tripod head but you may still want to put an Arca Swiss style clamp on the head so that you can quickly mount/remove your camera from the tripod.
I would think the Tiltall would be a good choice for you.
jeff
I'm thinking it'd be a good choice too. For now, that's what I'm leaning (tilting? Heh) towards. I currently use Arca-type clamps and plates, so I'm a step ahead of you there. ;) With my Technika and the sliding back I machined to fit it, weight is centered over the tripod mount quite well. Even without it, the centre of gravity isn't too far off. As for the Super 23, I replaced the M back with a Graflok back, so weight is distributed further back there as well. Both the Technika and Mamiya use L-brackets, so I don't have to make the camera "hang" on its side.
I'll go to the local Henry's and see if any other tripods pique my interest, though this tripod seems to satisfy all my needs with a minimal number of caveats. Reconsidering my issue with weight; I suppose even with 3 lbs legs, a decent ball or 3-way would bring that setup back up to the Tiltall's 6lbs? I'd say the biggest downside is the length; I currently use a (relatively) tiny Linhof Report whose legs stick out just below the bottom of my bag. Even with a small tripod, when I set the bag down, it doesn't lie flat. I've got to put the bag down gently on its back, and that gets awfully annoying/awkward to store. On the other hand, it doesn't look like there is much that can snag on the Tiltall whilst removing it from the side straps of my bag, over my shoulder? That would remove the need to set the bag down to access the tripod, like I must do with the Linhof Report (whose levers tend to snag on things). In any case, that is why I was considering the Sirui N-1004KX, Tiltall TE284, among other tripods of a similar design - very compact and lightweight when folded up. If such designs are inherently too unstable for a 4x5 press/field though, then I'll stick with the Tiltall.
Thank you everyone for your input - it has helped a great deal.
Jim Jones
17-Jan-2017, 18:39
Bipin, the Tiltall TE284 is different than the old American made tripod in having four instead of three leg sections and in not coming with a head. Four sections are less stable than three. If there are any reviews on the TE284, they are likely in a language I can't read. The Tiltalls imported several years weren't reported to have the quality of the original Marchioni, Leitz, or even Star D versions.
Alan Gales
17-Jan-2017, 19:12
I bought a nice used Leitz Tiltall tripod for $75. You should pay less than $100 for a Marchioni or Leitz version. I hear the original Marchioni are the best.
Sometimes you can find Berlebach wooden tripods pretty reasonable too. I paid around $150 for one that looked close to new. It even had a Berlebach head with it.
Gotta agree. The one thing you shouldn't cheap out on is a tripod. It will always cost you more than you think in the long run.
CF will dampen vibrations better than aluminum. Also better when it gets cold, unless you wear insulated gloves. Weight not the only issue.
Mark Sampson
17-Jan-2017, 19:47
I've used a Marchioni (original designer/manufacturer) Tiltall as my 'lightweight' tripod for many years; I rescued it from an industrial junk pile. My 7lb. Zone VI 4x5 will work on top of it... but it takes a lot of effort to tighten the tilt controls when I do. I'll say that issue is because of many decades of use (mostly before my time) are beginning to wear the head out, and because the tripod was designed for home movie cameras, Leicas, and Rollei TLRs. I'm keeping the tripod though! If you get a good (Marchioni or E. Leitz) Tiltall it should work just fine. Star-Ds are cheap copies (I destroyed one in the early '80s) and I have never used the recent ones, so won't comment on them. Gary Regester of Plume Wafer softbox fame has kept the Tiltall flame alive, btw.
Bipin, the Tiltall TE284 is different than the old American made tripod in having four instead of three leg sections and in not coming with a head. Four sections are less stable than three. If there are any reviews on the TE284, they are likely in a language I can't read. The Tiltalls imported several years weren't reported to have the quality of the original Marchioni, Leitz, or even Star D versions.
Oh yes, I know. Sorry - I should of clarified that what I meant is I was considering the new TE284, and the TE Classic/the real deal (Marchioni, Leitz, Uniphot).
Drew Bedo
18-Jan-2017, 06:09
Bipin:
Back in 1994 I brought along a Tilt-All Knock off (Star) on a trip to the Grand Canyon. We did most of the tourist stuff from the car that did include day hikes. Married with a mortgage and car note (and under-employed) we felt poorer than when we were in college. I had a Pre-anniversary Speed Graphic beater packed into a thrift shop book bag (Jansport, bright blue) with pieces of cut up surplus sleeping mat all hot-glued together. It all worked pretty well but looked . . .rough. I could set up and shoot in ~2 min , then rig-down , pack and step off about as quickly. The self storing press camera body really helped in this.
The Star brand Tiltall hung from the backpack's grab-handle and was strapped down with a bit of rope. The tripod worked well enough with the light weight S-G but became a bit shaky with a 5x7 Burk and James. Liked it enough to get another one, but both had problems in securing the center column no matter how tightly it was screwed down. I traded or sold them off at the old Houston Camera Show (that long ago) and moved on to other things.
As our professional lives improved later in the early 2K years, I bought a Velbon CF tripod and got a Magnesium Ball head. This holds up a Wista-made Zone VI 4x5. My 8x10 Kodak 2D sits on a set of wooden legs.
Buy the tripod you can afford. You are young so weight is an inconvenience not a health issue. Spend your money on film and processing. In the end, its not about the gear that you use, its the images you create.
Cheers
Oh yes, I know. Sorry - I should of clarified that what I meant is I was considering the new TE284, and the TE Classic/the real deal (Marchioni, Leitz, Uniphot).
I examined one of the "new" Tiltalls at a store, and they are not NEARLY made as well as the vintage namesakes!!! Thinner metal, shallow cut threads for the locks, locks didn't have a positive lock, and didn't positively secure when tightened, head locks not positive, etc... Stay away!!!!
You can look for a vintage model, but check for these things;
The legs should slide in and out with fingertip pressure... If they don't, sometimes the legs are bent where they look straight, but will slightly oval, where the outer part is slightly larger in diameter and bind in the locks... If you have one with this, you can carefully sand the lobes down with 400 emery paper until it slides better...
The lock threads eventually build up sand, dirt, grit, and oxides, so they can be cleaned with acetone, and re-lubed with lithium or silicone grease...
Keep them from getting soaked, and dry them upon returning home, but don't tighten the locks while drying... Keep them clean and away from salt water...
Polish the natural finished ones once in a while with a good metal polish...
Don't lube the tripod head pivots, but if they bind, shoot some silicone spray inside...
An upgrade point is that the head is only secured with 1 screw to the column, and the tube has 1 hole for the screw that can expand over time and weight... Having a solid metal insert for the tube + head that 4 screws drilled around the outside of the head, will hold the head better without rocking over time... (Good project to bring to a machine shop)
The 3 screws that tension the leg pivots from swinging sometimes break, so installing a stronger bolt before it breaks will save a broken bolt removal later...
One of mine (Marchioni) was purchased heavily used over 35 years ago, and with some minor work has been used countless times well and is still a daily driver...
But take care of them, and they will serve you well for many years!!!
Steve K
Jim Jones
18-Jan-2017, 07:33
The Star-D Tiltalls are often maligned, but mine worked well until I lost it. The leg collets have a plastic instead of brass insert which might not tolerate hard use as well as the Marchioni or Leitz versions. Also, a handle had a plastic grip which broke when the tripod fell. Steve gives very good advice on caring for a Tiltall in the above post.
Thank you once again everyone for the copious amount of info, much of which was very helpful. It ultimately guided my decision to purchase a Tiltall - just a moment ago - at a phenomenal price.
As a Canadian student, the USD/CAD exchange rate on top of shipping can get a tad out of hand. The tripod didn't come with two handles, so I will need to buy replacements, but I figured this was an acceptable trade-off given what I paid. Finding the proper handles is an easy task - I know where I can get them - although to be honest, I'm not sure if I want them. A large gripe of mine with the Tiltall had always been with how far the handles stick out. I understand that the knobs accept a 1/4'' male thread. Are there any sort of knobs I can pick up at Home Depot or Lowes that should fit within the metal sleeve, surrounding the threads? I could easily pick up the proper handles, but I figure this is a good chance to do what I really want and create something that protrudes less.
Mark Sampson
18-Jan-2017, 16:13
Look up Gary Regester of Plume Wafer soft box fame, as I mentioned before. (i've lost his contact info, sadly.) He is (or was) the keeper of the classic Tiltall flame- including replacement handles. Best of luck with your new tripod- may it support many photographic adventures!
Look up Gary Regester of Plume Wafer soft box fame, as I mentioned before. (i've lost his contact info, sadly.) He is (or was) the keeper of the classic Tiltall flame- including replacement handles. Best of luck with your new tripod- may it support many photographic adventures!
Yes, thank you! Gary was who I was talking about when referencing a source for the "proper" Tiltall handles, though his name escaped me at the time. That said, some more compact knobs would be nice; something like a 5-point star that's easy to twist with gloves/mittens. The trouble I'm having is determining the max diameter for the metal shaft surrounding the female threads. This shaft must both screw into a 1/4'' male thread, while not being much larger than 1/4" itself in diameter, so it can fit within a cowling/tube.
Thank you once again everyone for the copious amount of info, much of which was very helpful. It ultimately guided my decision to purchase a Tiltall - just a moment ago - at a phenomenal price.
As a Canadian student, the USD/CAD exchange rate on top of shipping can get a tad out of hand. The tripod didn't come with two handles, so I will need to buy replacements, but I figured this was an acceptable trade-off given what I paid. Finding the proper handles is an easy task - I know where I can get them - although to be honest, I'm not sure if I want them. A large gripe of mine with the Tiltall had always been with how far the handles stick out. I understand that the knobs accept a 1/4'' male thread. Are there any sort of knobs I can pick up at Home Depot or Lowes that should fit within the metal sleeve, surrounding the threads? I could easily pick up the proper handles, but I figure this is a good chance to do what I really want and create something that protrudes less.
The handles can be shortened, but are you talking about the head or yoke handles??? If the head handles are too long, they can be cut off, and if someone has a lathe, they can be drilled and tapped for the 1/4-20 thread, but before you do, the long handle comes in handy when trying to level the camera side to side as there is more leverage... The short head handle can aim forward to get out of your way...
When you carry the tripod around, if you loosen all the knobs a little, and aim the big handle up (in a bag, etc), they tend to push around out of the way without them sticking out all angles, so a little slimmer when transporting... A bag will make it a lot easier to carry around by itself...
So, did you find a vintage model???
Have fun with it!!!!
Steve K
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