4x5 developing kit for a beginner

[omnibook2100]

Dear All,

I recently bought my 4x5 and I want to start developing my own B&W film at home. I have searched on the site and forum and on the Internet and have seen information for the jobo series, Paterson's mod54, SP-445 and B&W king among others but I would also like the community's opinion of which one I should invest that will be easier to use and will use less chemicals. I am planning to shoot on a low volume at least for starters, if that makes any difference to your advise.

Any help towards the direction you feel is right would be greatly appreciated. Also if you know any European vendor to buy a kit would be superb! If someone wants to propose a chemical starter kit please do so, it will be a big help.

Regards,

N

P.S: I think I would prefer to use a daylight safe option rather than open tanks, at least for now.

[David Schaller]

The cheapest, and arguably best, method for low volume is in the dark in trays. Just start developing one sheet at a time, then do two, then more, as your skills progress. A blacked out bathroom is all you need.

[Leigh]

A blacked out bathroom is all you need.
For developing film in trays you need a VERY dark darkroom.

After all, the film can go totally opaque from a 1/30 second exposure through a stopped-down lens.
When using trays the film is assaulted by ambient light for 5 to 10 minutes or longer.

I normally develop my film in trays, but I have a very dark darkroom.

- Leigh

[Daniel Stone]

What is your intended amount of processing in a month?

To be perfectly honest, a Jobo system, once you have learned how to properly load and use it, is almost perfect, and you can use less chemistry volume that way.
Some processes, such as stand development, cannot be done with rotary development. If you're simply using HC110, D76 or another "rotary compatible" developer, then you should be fine.

For b/w only, a motor base such as a beseler or likewise should help as well.

-Dan

[chassis]

I like BTZS tubes. I am shooting 1 piece of film per week at the moment. For each sheet of film, I use 3 ounces or 90ml of developer stock solution, plus 6 ounces or 180ml of water to make D-76 1+2, for a total of 9 ounces or 270ml total liquid volume. This yields around 11 sheets of film per liter of developer stock solution. Pretty inexpensive.

I use water for stop bath. Fixer is reusable, to a point.

Technically you only need one tube. You could post a "WTB" or "want to buy" ad on this site and maybe someone will sell you one tube.

With my method total darkness is needed, the size of a coat closet, when the film is loaded in the tube and when solutions are changed.

[Leigh]

... and you can use less chemistry volume that way.
With an important caveat.

All developers specify the correct amount of concentrate to use per "roll" of film*.
Regardless of the dilution, you must always use that amount of concentrate.

- Leih

* One "roll" of film is any combination that can be proofed on a single 8x10 sheet of paper.
That includes one 8x10 film, four 4x5 films, one 35mm-36exposure roll, or one 120 roll.

[John Kasaian]

Trays are the cheapest and probably easiest, but if you prefer a processor.
The processor everyone seems to love is the Jobo.

Perhaps you can find a Patterson Orbital processor? IIRC they'll handle four sheets of 4x, (or 5x4 ) with minimal chemicals.

I've never had any luck with the Yankee day light tank or any of the square plastic kind that hold film in a little "rack," but that could just be me.

On the L F Home Page (click on the blue banner at the top of this page) Graywolf Phillips has an article on using Unicolor print drums for processing 4x5. I found it pretty easy to do 8x10 in a Unicolor drum but the 4x5 looks to be beyond my attention span---but check it out, it may work for you.

You might also experiment with a tank for developing multiple reels of roll film. Once I needed to process some 5x7 "on the fly" and the tank ---I think it held 3 reels of 135 or 2 reels of 120 I can't remember for 5x7, but if a 4x5 index card will fit it should work for your format. No reels of course, just a sheet of film. This wasn't a plastic Paterson tank, but stainless steel with tight fitting lid and a light trap for adding and dumping chemicals.

Good luck!

[locutus]

FWIW;

I started out with a Paterson + Mod54 and found it to be pretty easy to work with, it took a bit of practice with some scrap sheets but after that even my first tank of sheets came out fine.

The holder is a bit expensive but cheaper then the Jobo solutions. It does require a bit more chemistry though (1 litre of working fluid) which is still by far cheaper than having a lab do it.

[Doremus Scudder]

The cheapest, and arguably best, method for low volume is in the dark in trays. Just start developing one sheet at a time, then do two, then more, as your skills progress. A blacked out bathroom is all you need.

Another vote for tray processing in the dark. Yes, your "blacked-out bathroom" needs to be very dark, but that's exactly what I use here in Vienna when I'm here. In the U.S. I have a dedicated darkroom with a 3-meter sink, etc., etc., but it's no darker than my windowless bathroom with a towel stuffed under the door.

Tray processing does require you develop the required skill of shuffling multiple sheets of film in a tray if you want to develop more sheets than one at a time. A bit of practice with some scrap sheets, first with lights on, then in the dark (or just close your eyes) usually does the job.

The advantages with tray processing are many: it's cheap, flexible and arguably produces the most even negatives (this, of course, depends on how refined your agitation technique is). The disadvantages are that you have to be careful not to scratch a negative and that you do have to spend time tending to agitation and transferring sheets in total darkness (I kind of like that, personally).

I use a digital cooking timer and a metronome to time my processing. The oven timer goes off when the entire developing time is done; the metronome is set to one second and is used to time agitation (I agitate once through my stack of films every 30 seconds).

If you really need to keep some light on while processing (e.g., your "darkroom" isn't really dark) then do take a look at the BTZS tubes. You can easily fabricate them yourself from PVC pipe and end caps.

Best,

Doremus

[Mick Fagan]

I have the Jobo 2509 and 2509n reels and various tanks in the Jobo system for developing 4x5” sheet film. The difference is that the 2509n reels have plastic film retention things, these clip in place after you have loaded the reels. These plates ensure that individual sheets stay exactly where they should stay.

Using the standard 2509 reel, it was possible for a sheet of film to start to come out of the reel. This didn’t happen that often to me, but over a 25 + year use of the 2509 reel in my Jobo, it happened a few times. With the 2509n reel and the plastic retention plates, I have never had a sheet move.

There is a film loader with a film guide, this is not a requirement, but, from my personal experience. If you are using the Jobo 2509 series of film reels, then life is unbelievably easier if you have the film loader/guide unit as well.

In short, the Jobo system is very good when using the 2500 tank and 2509n reel. It is pricey though once you factor all things that are needed, more so when you factor in the things that are not exactly needed, but make life very easy and more or less mistake free.

For inversion processing, you need 1 litre of solution, the maximum you can develop is 6 sheets at a time. Rotary processing uses less than half that amount of solution. But then you need a processor, which is quite expensive.

Last year I purchased the SP445 tank, I was part of the Kick Starter group. This tank has surprised me at how easy it is to use, the minimum amount of chemistry (450ml to 470ml) I have standardised on 460ml for my own tank. This volume of solution allows certainty that the film is covered, plus it doesn’t fill the tank too much, thereby reducing fluid movement which is a requirement for inversion processing for obtaining sufficient agitation.

This tank allows you to process 4 sheets of 4x5” film, which, by and large, should be sufficient for you; especially in your early days of sheet film processing.

I know very little about the MOD54 system, I have seen it, do know of one person using it, but other than that, zilch.

Never heard of the B&W King system. Googled it after reading your request. Looks very much like the Nikkor 4x5” tank system.

My suggestion for anyone getting into 4x5” film developing, is that currently, the best, cheapest, and, from my personal experience, the SP445 is the go.

I purchased my SP445 tank so that I could travel and develop my 4x5” sheet film on the go. This tank has been so easy to use, I prefer to use it over rotary processing with my Jobo processor; all films have been remarkably evenly developed.

I had a slight issue with a slightly bent film holder. This was fixed by leaving the black holder in the sun to get it quite hot, then gently bending it straight. I thought the plastic would have a memory and revert back to the slight curve it had, nope, so far it has stayed as straight as.

You may have read of people having difficulty in getting the sheets of film out of the holders when they were wet. The suggestion from the manufacturer was to place the wet loaded holder into a tray of water, then the sheet film almost floats out. I tried that, it does exactly what the manufacturer said it would do.

Essentially I develop, stop, fix and then wash the film. I then take a holder out (holds two sheets back to back) place this on top of a water body (it sort of floats) I then extract one sheet out, place the film holder and remaining sheet to one side, then doing what I have been doing for about 30 years of 4x5” developing, I hand hold the sheet and gently swish the sheet through a wetting agent for around 30 to 40 seconds, then I clip it up to dry.

Mick.

[crimbo]

I have just got into 4 × 5 and have only shot 11 sheets I am using MOD 54 which works okay with practice To keep costs down I am starting with Fomapan and Rodinal The UK has several vendors of film and chemicals

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[LabRat]

Developing your film is highly recommended, but if you are still trying to get the camera thing down, for a start, send out your film to a decent lab so you at least have a baseline that the camera & handling steps are correct, and not to introduce other factors that might confuse you if there is an issue somewhere...

One step at a time...

Steve K

[omnibook2100]

Thank you all so much for your replies. A lot of valuable advice and suggestions. For the time being ill try out the Paterson mod54 as I'm finding a very good price for a kit though I am interested (for the future) in exploring a rotary system as well. I'll let you know if my progress. To labrat, I am in the process of testing the camera, etc it's just that the price for developing one 4x5 sheet costs approximately 10€ (Euros) which is veeery expensive. Thanks again to all, I hope that another beginner can benefit from the info you all offered. :)


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[Tim Meisburger]

I would also say the SP445, but since you have settled on the Mod54, that should also be fine. To keep costs down, consider making your own developer and fix. D-23 is only two chemicals, and hypo is only one. If you mix yourself, you can only prepare what you need.

Have fun. Its not as hard as it sounds. Use a temp conversion chart to develop at ambient temperature, rather than trying to keep everything at some arbitrary constant. You will make mistakes, but everyone does, and they decrease with time.

[locutus]

Fomapan + Rodinal is a reasonably cheap combination to get started (maybe a euro per developed sheet).

[John Kasaian]

I would also say the SP445, but since you have settled on the Mod54, that should also be fine. To keep costs down, consider making your own developer and fix. D-23 is only two chemicals, and hypo is only one. If you mix yourself, you can only prepare what you need.

Have fun. Its not as hard as it sounds. Use a temp conversion chart to develop at ambient temperature, rather than trying to keep everything at some arbitrary constant. You will make mistakes, but everyone does, and they decrease with time.

FWIW, I store my stock solutions and distilled water for dilution in the same place, so everything is the same "room" temperature.

[hazardsg]

I found the unicolor drum with rotating base easy to learn. I think it was mentioned above, but here is a link to the article. (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/unicolor/) The base and drums come up on the auction site on a regular basis.

[vdonovan]

I'm another vote for the SP-445. I've used a MOD54 since they first came out, but now I prefer the SP-445. It's faster and easier to load and uses less solution. Occasionally I have mis-loaded the MOD54, but I've never misloaded the SP-445, it's almost impossible.

[tim48v]

Speaking of the SP-445, check out our new film holders: https://shop.stearmanpress.com/blogs/news/sp-445-film-holders-rev-2

159980

[omnibook2100]

Anybody has any suggestions for chemicals for B&W to start with? Thank you in advance. [emoji4]


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[locutus]

Depends a bit on film, but a very forgiving and cheap starting point is Rodinal + Maco stop/fixer.

[Leigh]

i've been using Rodinal with slow films (ISO 100) for many decades, and I love it.

Beautiful tones and excellent highlight separation.

- Leigh

[cjdewey]

Anybody has any suggestions for chemicals for B&W to start with? Thank you in advance. [emoji4]

I started with Caffenol, and TF-4 fixer, almost three years ago. I'm still happy with them, for all kinds of B&W film. I also like the Paterson + MOD54 combination, because I shoot medium format, too.

The other thing I (re)use (which may not be recommended) is 91% isopropyl alcohol as a brief final bath, before hanging the film to dry, to prevent water spots.

It seems to be getting harder to get specific chemicals through the mail, so I like that I can get almost all of mine at the local supermarket and drug store.

[Jac@stafford.net]

i've been using Rodinal with slow films (ISO 100) for many decades, and I love it.

Beautiful tones and excellent highlight separation.

- Leigh

Exactly my experience. Rodinal is consistent, predictable and has the best acutance. Rodinal is my friend.

.

[Leigh]

Exactly my experience. Rodinal is consistent, predictable and has the best acutance. Rodinal is my friend.
And I forgot to mention...

Rodinal concentrate lasts forever even in partially-used bottles, as long as they're capped.

We've had reports of very old concentrate in corked bottles still working as expected.

This is particularly important to newbies who don't use large quantities of developer in a short period of time.

- Leigh

[greginpa]

I may get some kick back for this, but if you can get Photographer's Formulary stuff in Europe for a reasonable price, their version of Kodak D-19 might be a way to go. It is very long lasting. It has a reputation for being super contrasty and grainy, I did not find it to be so. I use it 1:1 and with Fomapan 100 for 6 minutes at 68º get nice easy to print negatives. I found some old packets from Kodak and gave one a try and loved the first set of negs I got out of it. My two cents.

[Will Frostmill]

Anybody has any suggestions for chemicals for B&W to start with? Thank you in advance. [emoji4]


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Sure. Check out Ken Lee's tech page, here: http://www.kennethleegallery.com/html/tech/index.php scroll down until you see "Very Simple Film Developer". It's D-23, available as a mix your own kit from Photographers Formulary. He recommends citric acid stop. He has a formula for TF-3 fixer. I recommend ordering TF-5, since it is easier and low odor.

Are you scanning or making wet prints? I scan, but for paper developer I've become interested in Agfa Eco-Pro. (I don't have any concerns about the ingredients.)

There are some other equally good choices for developers. Someone will be along in a minute suggesting HC-110, another good choice, easy to work with, shelf stable, etc. Someone else will suggest Xtol, especially if you scan film, but it's not very shelf stable. (Tip: only use distilled water to mix it.) It has a reputation for being pretty harmless.

(There are some bad choices for beginners. Developers that have hazardous ingredients, or bad byproducts. Developers that are easy to under or over mix. That sort of thing.)

[omnibook2100]

Does anybody know if I can find the sp-445 developing tank for purchase in Europe? I am considering it as it takes less chemicals over the mod-54. So far I've searched but haven't found one. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

[tim48v]

You have two options: fotoimpex.de in Germany is our main distributor in Europe. Numerous other photo shops carry it as well. I know that http://nicablad.com stocks them in France.

[bw-man]

Began to large format photography, according to its own way of development, to select photographic equipment, this is the shortest cut.
If you take the film all immersed in the traditional development method, can choose B&W KING.
Is this website related comments, will be helpful to know the product.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?126416-Anyone-use-the-B-amp-W-King-5x7-(or-4x5)-developing-reel-amp-tank-(Nikor-like)

[Duolab123]

Anybody has any suggestions for chemicals for B&W to start with? Thank you in advance. [emoji4]


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I'm not sure what you have locally. But to start, I would buy a small volume of a liquid developer, probably Ilford offerings would be available in the EU. Give a thought to replenishing your developer. I'm sure Ilford has advice on their site. The mod 54 will work fine. Foma has a lot to choose from as well. If you want to save money look into replenishment. It will make a small bottle of concentrate go a long way. Here in the US the old standard is HC-110 by Kodak. Which by the way is now made by Tetenal in Germany. Get a 500ml bottle of indicator stop bath. You can use the working solution of the stop for a lot of film. Liquid rapid fixer. To start buy small bottles.
If I remember correctly you need close to a liter for the mod 54. This is why replenisher would make sense.
Best Regards Mike