View Full Version : Shen-hao vs. Toyo- a slight departure
John C Murphy
25-May-2005, 11:31
This is a slight departure from the usual Shen-hao versus Ebony question. I am thinking about buying a field camera, but not for the usual reason-weight. I actually don't mind carrying my Toyo monorail into the field, but I have trouble with the recessed lensboard for my wide-angle lens, namely, that I have difficulty getting my fingers in there to work the controls. I figure a field camera will allow for a 'less recessed' recessed lensboard. Now I've followed this website long enough to know that the Shen-hao is the logical choice versus the Ebony, but what about the Toyo? I mean, they are about the same price (around $600). Is there any advantage for an existing Toyo owner to stick with them? or should I just go with the prettier Shen-hao? I appreciate your opinions.
paul owen
25-May-2005, 11:48
Hi John. If you're talking about the Toyo CF then get the Shen Hao! There I said it!! Seriously, the Toyo CF is attrocious (MY OPINION ONLY!!!!! - PLEASE - I'M NOT GOING THROUGH THE SAME THING WITH TOYO USERS!!). Unless you need "supreme" weight reduction don't give it a second look. I've "some" experience of using the Shen Hao HZX45 and found that a 90mm lens was about as short as I could go with standard bellows - but I didn't have bag bellows to try so they may make using shorter lenses much easier? What focal length lenses are you thinking of using with a field camera?
Edward (Halifax,NS)
25-May-2005, 11:51
Whatever happened to Shen Hao vs Tachihara? I thought that was THE comparison. As for Shen Hao vs Toyo; will you miss the lack of back movements? You can fake back tilt with the drop bed but for swing you are out of luck. I would go for the Shen Hao. It is better to have movements you don't use then to not have one you need to use.
Donald Hutton
25-May-2005, 11:56
John
Another solution for your issue may be to use a recessed adaptor board - this way you can mount your ultra wide lens on a Technika type board and place it into a Toyo recessed adaptor board - if you're having any trouble adjusting the lens - you can just take out the entire Technika board, do what you need to and place it back into the adaptor board again. I picked one up on Ebay for about $130. Looking at a Toyo field camera for a "less recessed" option is probably going backwards - the Toyo field cameras take much smaller boards - a recessed field board, no matter how deeply recessed, is very cramped to get your fingers onto the lens controls (the full size Toyo boards make using recessed boards much easier). A bit of research on this forum and others about the Toyo CF will likely steer you clear of it.
the toyo field view cameras are built very well. they are built like a tank, and allow for limited movement in the rear standard. they can take a very wide lens ( 47mm) and to very long ( 500mm ).
Donald Hutton
25-May-2005, 12:06
Sorry, the $600 Toyo CF (which I'm guessing is the model John has in mind) does not appear to be well made or thought out. I played with one in a store for a half hour and I was left with the impression that it was by far the worst product I had seen with the name Toyo on it. It was flimsy, did not lock down with much rigidity and generally was not cleanly finished. I was very unimpressed (Toyo do make some superbly engineered and executed products too - I own a Toyo which I am extremely happy with).
John C Murphy
25-May-2005, 12:16
I usually use a 80mm lens, though I've considered buying a 58mm lens as well. I use a bag bellows on my monorail, which I can also use with my 150mm lens without having to change to the standard bellows. My usual movements are either back tilt only (if not using a center filter) or a combination of front tilt of the lensboard and back rise (to prevent vignetting).
paul owen
25-May-2005, 13:09
John if you plan on using a lens like the 58XL on a field camera then you will probably be limited to just a few cameras. I have experience with the Ebony SW45 and 45SU with the 47XL. The SW managed the lens easily (on a flat panel too) and the SU needed a recessed panel to focus on infinity. When you get to such short focal lengths the non-folding design of the Ebony cameras I mention come into their own. However, I am sure that others with experience of different cameras may also offer their opinions too. Good luck. Paul
Dean Tomasula
25-May-2005, 13:31
Paul is correct, the Toyo CF is not up to the standards of the rest of the line.
You can use a standard board and bellows on a Shen-Hao with a 90mm lens. Paul also is correct that anything shorter will require a bag bellows. The bag bellows is pretty easy to use, it attaches in about 5 seconds. You can use it with the 90mm if you wish, but it's not absolutely necessary. But once you go shorter than 90mm, a bag bellows is a necessity on the Shen.
John C Murphy
25-May-2005, 14:58
I'd be willing to pay more for a sturdier model of the Toyo if there were some advantage in sticking with Toyo. For instance, maybe I can avoid mounting and unmounting the lens from the lensboard when switching between monorail and field if the Toyo has an adapter for the smaller lensboard?
Emmanuel BIGLER
25-May-2005, 15:01
I figure a field camera will allow for a 'less recessed' recessed lensboard.
In 4x5" : Arca Swiss Misura or Arca Swiss F-line 'field' monorail.
Focal length 55 mm on a flat lensboard and standard leather bellows ; usable front shifts to the limit of the optics. Usable with same bellows up to 270mm of extension and 400 mm telephoto.
Slighty more expensive than a Shen-Hao, though.
John C Murphy
25-May-2005, 15:09
The Arca Swiss models are a lot more expensive than the Shen-Hao...
For that kind of money, I could buy the top of the line Toyo field camera.
Emmanuel BIGLER
25-May-2005, 15:33
John. Sorry I meant of course "slightly" with three smileys like this : " slightly ;-);-);-) more expensive". But you had already corrected the sentence (bad boy, E.B. : you'll repeat 100 times : I'll never make jokes again on the Internet in another language than my mother language ;-);-)
Herb Cunningham
25-May-2005, 17:24
I have had so many cameras it is too long to list. The only economical ones that I have/had that would work without a bag bellows are the Ebony RW45, and of course any monorail. At that, I have to do the ol leaning the lens back to get the Ebony to take a 72mm, and then dern little movements.
How anybody can live with a recessed lens board is a mystery to me. They are infinitely difficult to mess with.
Ralph Barker
25-May-2005, 19:34
John - I use a Toyo 45AX, which I'm generally quite happy with. It will take a 65mm lens on a recessed board, but the bellows are quite compressed, making movements difficult. Of course, there's not a lot of excess coverage with the 65mm lens, anyway.
The 45AX does not have a bag bellows option, and uses 110mm lens boards, unlike the 158mm boards for the Toyo monorails. Thus, the recessed board is even tighter, space-wise. (I attached an angle adapter for the shutter release prior to mounting the lens in the recessed board.)
Ole Tjugen
26-May-2005, 02:07
I seem to be repeating myself a lot - have a look at Gandolfi. Both the "Traditional" and the "Variant" handle short lenses, and at least the "Traditional" is an incredibly sturdy camera. I replaced a Technika III 5x7" with a 50 years old, heavily used Traditional 5x7" - and I'm still impressed with the build quality and the precision of the Gandolfi.
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