"Old" Photo Paper Test Results

[John Layton]

I have, over the years, accumulated quite a supply of unused photo paper - and have decided that its time for this old stock to "fish or cut bait!"

This is just an initial (partial) test - dividing pared paper stock into "just fix" and "develop/stop/fix" categories. Developer used is fresh Moersch 4812 - which has a great D-Max capacity. All of these paper stocks measure 16x20. All are fiber based, with glossy finish.

I will later do further "real world" testing (making actual prints from a full scale negative) using any papers which pass this first test.

Here are some results: (all below as compared to a new-paper - new Ilford VC "Classic" - control in each category)

All papers in the "Fix Only" category are brilliant white.
Develop/Stop/Fix:
"Old" (early 1990's) Oriental Bromide - Grade 2: A bit grey (darn - I have 40 sheets of this, and I loved this paper back in the day)
Zone 6 Brilliant Bromide (mid 90's?) - Grade 2: A bit grey - but whiter than the Oriental.
Zone 6 Brilliant Bromide (mid 90's?) - Grade 3: Still a bit grey - but whiter than the above. (time to uncork the benzotriazole?)
Zone 6 Brilliant VC - III (latest rendition of Zone 6 polycontrast) - Brilliant White! (a pleasant surprise!)
Forte Elegance Polywarmtone (thrown in as part of a Zone 6 enlarger purchase) - Brilliant White! This comes as great news...as I have 45 sheets of this (16x20!). My guess is that its about 15 to 20 years old, but if someone can chime in with production dates, that would be great.

I'm sharing the above info. due to my great surprise that the Bromide papers have shown more degradation than the Polycontrast papers, despite the fact that all have been stored in the same (cool but unrefrigerated) conditions. I would not have expected this, the Poly paper's slightly newer vintage notwithstanding. At any rate...I'll soon share further results of "full scale" testing. (I'm especially excited by the prospect of eventually souping the Forte Polywarmtone in some Moersch SE-6 cool tone developer, a formula which works wonders with Ilford's current warm tone paper).

[Leigh]

Why didn't you run the tests using benzotriazole? That would be my expected technique with old paper?

Or if a more compete test is desired, then both with and without the benzo.

- Leigh

[John Layton]

Basically, I want to know that I can pull as much as possible out of a particular paper before I make use of any "additives" to a basic process. I view the use of benzotriazole as "icing on the cake" when I truly feel that an image lacks just the kind of brilliance that this chemical can impart. In other words...I'd rather consider the use of (additives such as) benzotriazole on an image by image basis. If a paper cannot generally give me what I want, I usually will not use it.

Having said the above...as I've had some difficulty in reproducing the look of some of my older work which I'd printed on the "Old" oriental bromide stock - I will certainly run more tests with this paper, starting with some additional benzo - to see if I can come closer.

[Leigh]

I suggested running the tests with benzo in addition to without, since you know you'll need it.

As to benzo being an "additive"... So is every other chemical in the developer except for the active developing agent.

- Leigh

[John Layton]

To add to the above...I often find that for work which exhibits a continuum of very closely separated highlights, going up to pure (soft) white (see example - understanding that this will not translate well on screen), the addition of benzotriozole can, unfortunately, ruin this subtlety by either running the highest of these whites up to paper base white, or (depending on the tonal values and spread) separating the high tones further - imparting a harshness to these values. 159433

[John Layton]

Sorry Leigh...I was editing my latest post while you posted. Further explanation exists in my latest post. But right you are...I will need the benzo. Just hope I can do this and still be subtle!

[Leigh]

Hi John,

I don't know what film you're shooting.

For good highlight detail you need a film with no real shoulder, like Acros, that just goes on and on.

Using a film with a noticeable shoulder will tend to block up the highlighted subject areas.
That undesirable effect is compounded by the fact that the highlights print on the paper's toe.

Definitely a challenge. Your sample photo certainly looks nice, even on a computer monitor.

- Leigh

[EdWorkman]

ABout 'gray' fogging in old paper.
A few years ago I found myself with a high contrast neg and old paper- lots of gray even with benzo.
I found that extreme overexposure of the paper, and extremely short development produced a nice print that held shadow detail without giving gray highlites.
The overexposure part was easy, but 'pulling' the development was difficult to do consistently- so several sheets went to the trash, but i would have otherwise had NO print and trashed the outdated paper anyway.

[Steve Sherman]

Hi John, I'm not surprised by the Forte paper still being good. My experience over the years tell me that papers with a pure Bromide emulsion do not age well, papers with a combination of Chloride and Bromide, aka Chlorobromide emulsion papers will age much better, they do tend to loose some warmth and a bit of contrast for papers more than 15 years. I have a stock of Portriga Rapid from the mid 60's that still produces wonderful prints with no restraining agent in the developer. In fact I have a box of Azo, a pure Chloride paper with an expiration date of 1952 still in great shape.

One other note, the Benzotriozole will restrain highlights but shift the image color to a cooler tone, Potassium Bromide can be added to restrain also, not quite as powerful as benzotriozole but nevertheless a restrainer, careful not to over do it as the color shifts to an annoying greenish case that sometimes can be negated by the final selenium toning process. As Ed indicated severe shorting of development time can accomplish similar with added warmth being one side effect and as Ed indicated much harder to target correct printing times.

Cheers

[loonatic45414]

For good highlight detail you need a film with no real shoulder, like Acros, that just goes on and on.



Huh? Infinite density? That should be their slogan. Anti-matter built right into the film.

Sent from my 0PJA2 using Tapatalk

[blueribbontea]

Hi John, I'm not surprised by the Forte paper still being good. My experience over the years tell me that papers with a pure Bromide emulsion do not age well, papers with a combination of Chloride and Bromide, aka Chlorobromide emulsion papers will age much better, they do tend to loose some warmth and a bit of contrast for papers more than 15 years. I have a stock of Portriga Rapid from the mid 60's that still produces wonderful prints with no restraining agent in the developer. In fact I have a box of Azo, a pure Chloride paper with an expiration date of 1952 still in great shape.

One other note, the Benzotriozole will restrain highlights but shift the image color to a cooler tone, Potassium Bromide can be added to restrain also, not quite as powerful as benzotriozole but nevertheless a restrainer, careful not to over do it as the color shifts to an annoying greenish case that sometimes can be negated by the final selenium toning process. As Ed indicated severe shorting of development time can accomplish similar with added warmth being one side effect and as Ed indicated much harder to target correct printing times.

Cheers

I have found very different results. The Forte paper I have develops a medium grey straight out of the package, even at only ten years old. I have 25 year old Agfa Brovira that remains pure white. My Oriental seagull 10 - 20 years old always has a slight grey tinge but is useable, especially with Benzo. Old Galerie always seems to have a greyness. I had thought that both Brovira and Seagull were bromide papers. The biggest disappointment was the Forte Eleganz, which had been none of my favorite papers. I do have some Azo and Velox that expired in the very early 50's that I still print from and I think those are both silver chloride.