Upgrading to Ebony or Wisner?

[snommisbor]

So I'm selling my Tachihara to get a camera that will allow me to use longer lenses and I have really wanted to get into that next level of 4x5 camera. I have narrowed it down to 2, or basically 3 including the 2 Ebony's. I have been debating on the Ebony SV45U or the SV45Ti. I know not much difference in the camera, more just the wood and the asymmetrical movements of the SU. Not sure if that is a huge selling point being I never needed it before. Plus my Tachi had a lot of movement anyway. Then I look at the Wisners and they look so old school. A little bulkier from what I can tell but the red bellows and the whole look of it just appeals to me as well but they can take the longer lenses as well. Even considered a Deardorff. I see many on sale but just not sure if newer ones are as well built as older ones. Maybe someone can chime in on that. Anyway I am really wanting to get into more LF shooting. I have been shooting with my 6x6 and the Velvia on a lightbox just look amazing. I want to shoot more 4x5's and plan on doing that this year. So some opinions that I may be overlooking would be appreciated.

[Tin Can]

http://www.canhamcameras.com/

[Drew Wiley]

Wisner has long been out of business and Ebony is no longer taking orders, though certain cameras might still be found at dealers. Ebony is expensive and in my
opinion a far better built camera than either Wisner or Deardorff. There are still several other excellent brands to choose from, however. But for long focal lengths, monorail design cameras are far easier to use than wooden folders. You can simply add or remove rail extensions, or interchange bellows, as needed. It is also far easier to balance the camera on the tripod, without an excessive torque vector hanging clear out front. Over the years I have used Sinar cameras for this purpose, with the original Norma design being my favorite, and reserve my 4x5 Ebony for those instances where compactness and light weight are the priority, as in backpacking or going into an airline carry-on.

[snommisbor]

Oh I know that, I am just searching on the used market. I have a monorail though, this is for getting out there and going with something compact and not bulky. i.e. a Field Camera.

[angusparker]

For new look at Chamonix F1 roughly same specs as the Ebony SV45U and even new will not be significantly more expensive than a used Ebony. Wisner quality is nowhere near an Ebony. Go Ebony if you are choosing between that and a Wisner.

[Jeff Keller]

I second Randy's suggestion to look at Canham. Get a MQC57 and put a 4x5 adapter on it and you have a 600mm bellows that can still go down to about 72mm. It folds up nice and compact.

[Bob Mann]

Having own both at one time or another I think the gearing/hardware on a Wisner compared to an Ebony is the main difference- the first being a little "rough" and the latter "as smooth as silk." Canham makes a nice camera, would be worth a look also.

[djdister]

Why not do all three - shoot 5x7, 4x5 and 6x17 (with your 120 Velvia) with the Canham MQC. It's a pretty sweet and flexible combo, and field portable...
158608

[Drew Wiley]

Just my personal opinion, but I like Canham's wood folders a lot more than the metal ones. The 5x7 is the sweet point in his line, in my opinion. About six pounds,
relatively affordable, and there is probably a 4x5 reducer back made for it. Just how long a bellows do you need, anyway? Most 4x5 front standards aren't going
to be rigid enough for a true 600mm lens in a heavy no. 3 shutter without some vibration risk.

[faberryman]

You also might want to look at a used Linhof Technikardan 45. I moved to it from a Wista DX after becoming frustrated with a lack of movements (rise, fall, shift) and general fiddliness. Its pretty compact once folded. Some complain it is hard to fold, but I have experienced no problem. Standard bellows are 485mm. In addition, the bag bellows can be used with movements for lenses up to 150mm. It is a delight to use.

If you want to wet print, 5x7 and 6x17 both require a 5x7 enlarger, though scanning and digital printing are an option, as are digital inter-negatives.

[xkaes]

You can't go wrong with a TOKO 4x5 (NOT TOYO) wooden, folding field camera. I use mine with everything from a 37mm Mamiya fisheye to a 600mm T Fujinon (actually a 12.5mm Minolta Micro to a 600mm) -- no kidding. All the bellows and movements I need -- 14" (360mm). Check them out at:

http://www.subclub.org/toko/index.htm

http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/mygear.htm

http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/gonefishin.pdf

[Ari]

Canham has an advantage over the other companies you mention in that they're still in business.
Canham are well-regarded and most models have a generous bellows draw.
My personal preference has always been for metal over wood, but aside from material, they are excellent cameras for daily use and are built to last.

[Bob Salomon]

Canham has an advantage over the other companies you mention in that they're still in business.
Canham are well-regarded and most models have a generous bellows draw.
My personal preference has always been for metal over wood, but aside from material, they are excellent cameras for daily use and are built to last.
Linhof is also still in business.

[Kevin Crisp]

I have two of the metal Canhams, and a wood 4X10 that I've made 5X7 and 4X5 backs for. The wood one is more solid locked down, but much less intuitive for me in the folding and unfolding and use departments. Probably if I used just the wood one that wouldn't be a problem. I really appreciate the extra rise available with the metal ones, and even in the wind I have not had a stability problem with the metal ones. So I would say the metal ones are solid enough, though clearly locked down the wood one is more rigid. The bellows draw and flexibility on all of them are nice.

[Drew Wiley]

Even my basic Ebony RW45 handles a true 360, though you must cantilever the base tilts front and back a little bit, then re-level the axis tilts to do this - only a minor inconvenience. But at least it alleviates any need of a tophat board. But Ebony is allegedly the most rigid of the wooden folders.

[Steve Barber]

I started with a Wisner 4x5 Technical Field and still use it. Later, I acquired an Ebony SV45U2. I suggest you start with the Wisner and try that for a while. I doubt you will find anything you cannot do with it. By the way, for full movements with a 90mm Super Angulon XL, both will require a bag bellows. Also, to avoid having to remove the rear element when mounting the 90mm S A XL on the Ebony, it will need to be the lens that lets you remove the flange of the rear element. This is unnecessary with the Wisner. Also, the Wisner will give full rise with that lens where the Ebony will not.

[Drew Wiley]

Wisner technical cameras haven't been made in a long time and were heavy big clunkers by comparison, while lightweight Wisner 4x5's look downright flimsy to me. The titanium hardware alone of Ebony is dramatically superior to brass. But I'd agree that regular Ebony cameras are clumsy with very wide angle lenses.
They make special models for architectural use with wide to normal focus lengths, at the expense of the long lenses under discussion here. My own Ebony is in its
element from 90 to 360. I don't need anything shorter anyway, being pretty much a long lens addict myself.

[Luis-F-S]

If you want to upgrade, I'd get a Deardorff V5. I have two, with 23" of bellows. Allows you to shoot 5x7 if you choose to go that route later on. L

[Bruce Barlow]

I'd get a Zone VI over a Wisner. Better built, and easier for Richard Ritter to repair, if the need arises.

[snommisbor]

I have a 90 I shoot but I have found I like a more normal lens to tele for landscapes. But I have read an Ebony can handle a 90. One thing nice about the Tachihara.

[Peter De Smidt]

I've owned a Wisner, and I used an Ebony for a couple of months. My preference was the Ebony hands down.

[snommisbor]

If you want to upgrade, I'd get a Deardorff V5. I have two, with 23" of bellows. Allows you to shoot 5x7 if you choose to go that route later on. L

How are the new Deardorffs compared to the vintage ones? Are they still considered a well built camera? I do love the look of them and the potential to go up to 5x7 should I choose to.

[Kevin Crisp]

Rob

People have had no end of trouble ordering the "new Deardorffs" and you should investigate that situation on this site before putting any money down on one. I won't attempt to recap all the problems here, but actually getting one as promised has been an issue.

A used Deardorff 4x5 Special (5X7 camera with front swings and at least a 4X5 back) in decent user shape is not hard to find and they still work fine. I use a pre-war 5X7 and it works just fine, but then it sat in a trunk for many decades before I got it.

[Kevin Crisp]

You can start here: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?84992-Where-s-Deardorff-and-Barry-Cochran

[Drew Wiley]

I'd far rather own an Ebony than the old Dorff 4x5/5x7 Special, since I've had the opportunity to buy the latter in clean condition at a rare sensible price. It might have been the cat's meow in its era, but that era is long gone. Cult lenses and cult cameras are often only that, and rarely worth the extra expense "collector" status when newer designs have essentially outpaced them anyway. Some of these newer cameras are half the weight of the Dorff and probably more rigid and
precise.

[jose angel]

I'd far rather own an Ebony than the old Dorff 4x5/5x7 Special, since I've had the opportunity to buy the latter in clean condition at a rare sensible price. It might have been the cat's meow in its era, but that era is long gone. Cult lenses and cult cameras are often only that, and rarely worth the extra expense "collector" status when newer designs have essentially outpaced them anyway. Some of these newer cameras are half the weight of the Dorff and probably more rigid and
precise.
As used to say, I only can say this louder but not better. It could not be politically correct, but I agree, absolutely.

[snommisbor]

You pretty much confirmed my feelings. Think I'm gonna go with an Ebony.

[Peter Collins]

I have a Wisner Technical Expedition, about 4.5 lb on account of using American cherry. Long bellows draw--22". I am content with it. I like it.

[Drew Wiley]

It's nice to have that extra long bellows; but if I had owned a Wisner Expedition it would have been reduced to splinters long ago. They're pretty, but need to be pampered.

[Professional]

I came late to this thread, but it is really funny that i was looking at Ebony SVxxti or TE version in the past, but they are now discontinued anyway as brand new, and luckily Chamonix brought something as alternative nowadays, so i will say Bye-Bye Ebony forever.

[Monty McCutchen]

I have an Ebony 20 x 24. You won't be disappointed in their quality regardless of format, version, new or used. Not only are they wonderful cameras, they come from the wellspring of wonderful people.

Not that anyone would ever buy mine (special brand of lunancy and all) but I'll go to my grave making stupidly large, fun images with my Ebony! I hope you enjoy yours as well! Congrats on your choice

Monty