Stand development/grain

[Mark Sawyer]

I've been experimenting with stand developing Ultrafine 400 (HP5+?) in HC-110 (B dilution). Development times are running in the 15-20 minute range (including an initial 30-second agitation period.) The negatives seem quite nice when contact printed, but I can see a fairly noticeable, though not outrageous, increase in grain size under a loupe when looking at the negatives on a light table.

I understand that this is a bit of a perversion of stand development, using a normal strength developer for not *that* much longer than usual, but it seems to work other than the grain. So my question to those of you doing stand development in other, more dilute developers: is the increased grain size a normal side effect of stand development?

As usual, thanks muchly!

[Bruce Watson]

There are a number of things that effect a given film's graininess. Among others, choice of developer, choice of processing temperature, exposure, and ... time in the soup. Development time should be a minor effect, but non-negligible. So yes, stand development in general will act to increase graininess a bit.

[Mark Sawyer]

Bruce- Yep, but as time in the developer, dilution of the developer, agitation during development, and which developer is used all affect the grain size, I was wondering whether those who do a more "traditional" stand development (very dilute Pyro or Rodinal for 30-120 minutes) experienced the same increase in grain I'm seeing.

I do like the way the negatives print, and I like the process and compensating nature of stand development. I would like to avoid the grain increase, and would consider switching to another developer to shrink it back down. But if it's just a normal side effect of stand developing, I'd like to know it so I can accept it, work on refining what I'm doing, and just occassionally grumble to myself about the grain you can't see in contact prints anyways. Thanks!

[Steve Sherman]

Mark,

In the case of Stand Developement grain increase is more a function of chemistry choice than development
time or technique. HC 110 is probably not a good choice of developer for stand development. HC 110
uses Sodium Sulfite as a preservative which promotes silver migration during the development process.
Pyro developers are especially favorable and are considered topical developers which tends to mask grain
while hardening the gelatin very early in the reducing phase of development.
The Stand technique increases adjancecy effects as a result of developer exhausting at the edge of tonality
differences. More diltute developers lacking in sodium sulfite are much more productive in producing these
effects. Amount of dilution and length of the non agitation period produces dramatically different results
and should be tailored to ones tastes.

Hope this helps. Steve Sherman

[Mark Sawyer]

Steve- everything you said makes sense, and it helps a lot! Without getting into chemistry specifics, I'm guessing the staining characteristics of pyro rely less on pronounced grain to make an image, making it more appropriate to stand development? Gotta consider pyro more seriously now. Dang, and I always liked HC-110...

[Steve Sherman]

Mark,
I used HC 100 for 15 years with Tri-X. I switched to Pyro, specifically PMK and now Pyrocat HD and can
say my negatives are noticeably superior in all aspects to the HC 110 developed negs. Pyro biggest
attribute is it's ability to increase the contrast index for use with alternative processes and still produce a
suitable negative for enlarging papers The staining action itself tends to mask the grain and therefore
produce a sharper negative in general, even without the Stand Technique.

Because Pyro developers are topical developers the emulsion is hardened in only a few minutes preventing
grain to expand and swell during extended periods of development time. A general overall fog can be a result
of extended time in developer, which is why more of the B solution or Potassium Carbonate is recommended
when experiencing development times in excess of 1/2 hour. There is a terrific read on the AZO Forum
where Sandy King and myself exchange ideas and methods.
http://www.michaelandpaula.com/mp/AzoForum/one.asp?ID=4532&PgNo=&GID=4532&CID=2

[Donald Qualls]

Well.

I routinely develop Fomapan 100 and TXT (old, expired Tri-X 320) in HC-110, but I dilute a lot -- dilution G, 1:119 from syrup (or about 1/4 of Dilution B strength) -- agitate a little (continuous for first minute, then five inversions every 3rd minute), and get times similar to yours. Stand development with this dilution runs from about 45 minutes up to a couple hours, and I've only done that a couple times (and in formats much smaller than the 9x12 cm Fomapan and TXT). I don't see any significant grain increase (at least with Fomapan, the only sheet film I've done other ways) from Dilution B or H. OTOH, I'm scanning my negatives at 2400 ppi, and ISO 100 film hardly shows any grain at that resolution no matter what I do to it. I also question exactly what significance grain (within reason) has in large format; we rarely enlarge enough to see the grain, even from Tri-X, and when we do the resulting print is so big viewers pretty much have to stand back and thus still won't see grain.

For my money, stick with the developer that's convenient, if the images are giving the tonality and acutance you want/need, and don't worry so much about grain in large format. This stuff is about the final image, in the end, not about the lab technique -- right?

[Steve Sherman]

Stand Development as it pertains to increasing grain is a very small and inconsequential factor. Especially
as you say with Large Format and the small degree of enlargement or in my case contact printing. Stand
development has the ability to significantly alter the micro contrast with in a given negative and here in lies
the most dramatic gain. HC 110 because of it’s Sodium Sulfite content will not realize as significant gains
in adjancecy effects otherwise thought to be increased sharpness as would most Pyro based formulas. In the
March / April issue of View Camera Magazine there is an article I wrote which details exactly what
happens. I will give a presentation at the View Camera Large Format Conference next weekend in
Springfield, MA. if anyone happens to be attending. Steve Sherman

[Mark Sawyer]

Donald- Quite right, it is about the image, not the technique. But if I decide to enlarge one of my 8x10 negs to 16x20 or 20x24, I'd like the grain to remain a non-issue.

Steve- Wish I could be there, but it's scheduled right at the end of the school year. As an instructor, I can't get away, (especially 3,000 miles away.) I'll be ordering some Pyrocat on Monday; I've never worked with pyro developers, so I guess I owe it to myself to try one!