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View Full Version : Are Compound shutter speeds tweakable?



Dustyman
20-Nov-2016, 15:20
I have a #3 Compound shutter (top speed 1/100th) I believe is from the '60s according top the Heliar serial number. The speeds are slow all around. I've heard that there might be an adjustment I can make to adjust the tension.
Is this true? And, if so, instructions appreciated.

Also, it has a flash synch connection by nowhere is there an X-M switch. I see it fires the flash fine, but wondering if it will synch properly at all speeds.

Bob Salomon
20-Nov-2016, 15:52
First, your shutter is more then overdue for a CLA. Next your shutter may fire an electronic flash but not in synch. Your shutter is synched for flash bulbs. You need X synch. That means that your shutter may synch electronic flash at some slow speed but not at all speeds. To see, hook your flash up to your shutter, open to the largest aperture, remove your ground glass and fire the shutter while looking through the back of your camera. If it is in synch at that shutter speed you will see a bright circle of light when it fires. If you don't keep repeating this at lower shutter speeds until you find one that does show you a full circle of light. That would be the fastest shutter speed that your flash will work at.
Unfortunately, since it will be a slow speed you may get double images as you will probably also get an exposure from the ambient light.
Some repair shops can add X synch to your shutter and then you would be in synch at all shutter speeds with your strobe.

Dustyman
21-Nov-2016, 13:01
Thx Bob, will check the flash synch via suggested method.
Do you know if there is a tension screw to self adjust? I will be getting it CLA'd shortly (Grimes), but want to use it for a week or so prior. Would love to adjust on this end if possible.



First, your shutter is more then overdue for a CLA. Next your shutter may fire an electronic flash but not in synch. Your shutter is synched for flash bulbs. You need X synch. That means that your shutter may synch electronic flash at some slow speed but not at all speeds. To see, hook your flash up to your shutter, open to the largest aperture, remove your ground glass and fire the shutter while looking through the back of your camera. If it is in synch at that shutter speed you will see a bright circle of light when it fires. If you don't keep repeating this at lower shutter speeds until you find one that does show you a full circle of light. That would be the fastest shutter speed that your flash will work at.
Unfortunately, since it will be a slow speed you may get double images as you will probably also get an exposure from the ambient light.
Some repair shops can add X synch to your shutter and then you would be in synch at all shutter speeds with your strobe.

Dan Fromm
21-Nov-2016, 14:18
If you have a shutter speed tester, test the shutter and make a table that gives actual speed vs. set speed. Then go shooting.

domaz
21-Nov-2016, 16:26
Unscrews both caps from the air retard cylinder on top. Clean the air retard cylinder with a tiny bit of solvent on a q-tip (be careful you don't want solvent going everywhere), that's probably all that's required to get your Compound moving a little faster. Compounds retard their action by using air resistance contained in that cylinder. If it's dirty it will likely run slower. If it leaks or one of the cylinder caps isn't screwed on, it will work way to fast.

Dustyman
21-Nov-2016, 17:25
Yes, did that. However fastest speed is about 1/30 sec. which severely limits what I can shoot (I shoot people).
Having a decent 1/50th and 1/100 options makes it a relatively viable lens for me.



If you have a shutter speed tester, test the shutter and make a table that gives actual speed vs. set speed. Then go shooting.

Dustyman
21-Nov-2016, 17:34
Thx. Will try that~


Unscrews both caps from the air retard cylinder on top. Clean the air retard cylinder with a tiny bit of solvent on a q-tip (be careful you don't want solvent going everywhere), that's probably all that's required to get your Compound moving a little faster. Compounds retard their action by using air resistance contained in that cylinder. If it's dirty it will likely run slower. If it leaks or one of the cylinder caps isn't screwed on, it will work way to fast.

Dustyman
21-Nov-2016, 19:11
Thanks for the tip. I cleaned the cylinder with naphtha and it definitely improved performance. I'm still a full stop slow on the all important two top speeds (1/50th and 1/100th -- see attached speed chart), but at least it's in the right direction. And since it is an even full stop it's easy to compensate for when calculating exposure.

That said, are there any other tips you might offer to increase that speed? I'm assuming graphite powder is a no-no in the cylinder, correct?

157764


Unscrews both caps from the air retard cylinder on top. Clean the air retard cylinder with a tiny bit of solvent on a q-tip (be careful you don't want solvent going everywhere), that's probably all that's required to get your Compound moving a little faster. Compounds retard their action by using air resistance contained in that cylinder. If it's dirty it will likely run slower. If it leaks or one of the cylinder caps isn't screwed on, it will work way to fast.

Ron (Netherlands)
23-Nov-2016, 15:08
These 'old' compound shutters were not meant to be lubed or anything. Also the naphtha might leave although little, residue - for cleaning the cylinder I always use alcohol.
To get slow speeds right is less tricky than the faster speeds. In many cases - I repaired quite some older compounds and compurs - the ring driving the shutterblades might have just a little corrosion on the part where it resides against the housing. On can only clean that part by fully dismantling the shutter. Further the ring is driven by 2 springs: when the shutter opens the ring is driven by a bladespring which resides in the cylinder just under the tensioning lever. After opening the shutter is closed by another little steel wire spring.
The blade spring might have become a little tired, and you cannot do much about that - I never found a replacement blade spring for my 1908 compound which has a broken spring inside. However you might be able to bend the wire spring a little in order to get is in a better original position - although of course this might only temporarily work.

Here's one I recently cleaned/serviced - the shutter was fully stuck and the driving ring was quite corroded just as many other parts
http://kpmg0072.home.xs4all.nl/Compound/20160912_001230.jpg

http://kpmg0072.home.xs4all.nl/Compound/20160912_200308.jpg

driving ring:
http://kpmg0072.home.xs4all.nl/Compound/20160912_234902.jpg

cleaning the slow speed cylinder:
http://kpmg0072.home.xs4all.nl/Compound/20160912_225739.jpg