Stop bath after selenium toning?

[eli]

Yesterday, I used a 2-3 ℅ acetic acid bath on fresh selenium toned fb papers. My stop turned orange and though I am sure my stop was used correctly, per Tim Rudman's book on master darkroom printing, I"m not confident this method does more good than harm.

Is anyone here using an acid stop, after this particular toning, or no?

Any thoughts or guidance about this topic are welcomed.

[peter schrager]

Fix for 3 minutes. ..toned as required then wash
I usually wash for 30 minutes then use HCA FOR 5 minutes
Wash again for another 40 minutes

[Doremus Scudder]

There's no reason I know of to use a stop bath after selenium toning alone. Why are you doing this and where did you get this workflow?

I'm not an expert on many other toning methods, and maybe some of them require an acidic clearing bath or something, but I've never heard of one being necessary after selenium toning. That said, I can't really see where it would hurt either... As for your stop turning orange, it's likely selenium compounds reacting with the acid, but I'm not sure exactly what.

FWIW, my workflow: .... second fix, directly into the toning bath, directly into wash aid, wash (60 minutes), squeegee, dry face-up on screens. Notice that there are no intermediate washes/rinses. Works well for me and has for years.

Best,

Doremus

[Rick A]

The only thing I can find about stop bath in Tim Rudman's Toning book is he recommends fresh stop between developing and fixing, nothing about using it after toning.

[Michael Clark]

I could be wrong, but remember reading in in Rudmans book about putting the brakes on the sulfide toners with stop bath or maybe that was for removing diachrotic fog after toning.

[neil poulsen]

How about hypo-clearing agent after Se toning?

[Kevin Crisp]

I am puzzled too. FB prints that are going to be selenium toned should be properly fixed and very well washed first. I think I've read over the years that selenium toner has a little hypo in it, and washing again after toning is important too. But I don't see what stop bath after toning is good for. The selenium toner is generally well diluted to begin with, taking the print out of the toner and putting it in a tray of fresh water stops the process almost immediately.

I always use a hypo clearing agent after toning and before the final wash and have never had a problem with it.

[Doremus Scudder]

I am puzzled too. FB prints that are going to be selenium toned should be properly fixed and very well washed first. I think I've read over the years that selenium toner has a little hypo in it, and washing again after toning is important too. But I don't see what stop bath after toning is good for. The selenium toner is generally well diluted to begin with, taking the print out of the toner and putting it in a tray of fresh water stops the process almost immediately.

I always use a hypo clearing agent after toning and before the final wash and have never had a problem with it.

Kevin,

You describe one method. It is also possible to transfer prints directly from the (second) fix to the selenium toner. This requires a fix with a pH close to neutral or alkaline, but it works just fine and saves time (and water) washing (you Californians should appreciate that). AA used a plain hypo second fix and transferred prints directly to the toner. I use Ilfor Rapid Fixer or Hypam at the 1+9 dilution and do the same, and have been for 30 years. A wash aid and thorough wash after toning is required even if the prints are washed before toning.

I think we've pretty well established that an acidic stop bath after selenium toning is not needed or helpful.

Best,

Doremus