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tonyowen
9-Nov-2016, 06:31
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First of all, my apologies for submitting a very similar query to two fora (this one and the paper negative section of Image Sharing (LF) and Discussion. However, I think my query has two aspects for consideration – apparatus and materials.
To continue

I’m very confused with the ‘quality” of the last batch of paper negatives. As normal I cut up a 8x10 piece of paper from a box of Ilford MGIV RC de luxe pearl multigrade paper using a roller cutter to give me four “4x5” sheets and loaded two double dark slides. [I assume that the sheet of paper chosen was as per the box label, but as I was given the boxes of paper there is no certainty]. The paper was cut and loaded in a bedroom with closed curtains and an orange darkroom light. The only difference being that a new carpet had been laid in that bedroom. After wet chemistry processing the paper negative were scanned using a HP 3520 all-in-one printer.
Image01 and image02 (both infested with dark spots) were taken sequentially on a tide line with a gusty wind blowing at right angles to the camera line of view. Image02 is a small section of the full 4x5 positive – It is noticeable on this image that the “spots” are often in threes and a triangular pattern. In both cases the exposure was 1s and f11.
My camera is a Calumet CC 401 with long monorail. The lens is a xenar f4.7 135mm fitted with a 40.5 to 58mm ring onto which is screwed a 2x yellow filter and a lens hood.
Paper negative processing was as usual - Jobo tank and 2509 holder using Ilford PQ Universal developer [1m], Ilfostop [10s], and Ilford rapid fixer [1m].

I’ve thought up some scenarios, but would like feedback before I increase the number of variables by dismantling the apparatus or using a new of piece of paper
1] I’ve used a number of sheets of paper from the particular box of Ilford MGIV RC de luxe pearl – but there is always the possibility of a rogue piece of paper.
2] The apparent pattern of spots of image02 could be inferred as due to static from the new carpet.
3] Dust from cutting the 8x10 paper generates dust – could this be transferred to the DDS?
4] A windy, wild, wet, salt laden situation could put drops on the filter, but the spots seem to be much smaller than would be expected from water droplets.
5] Similarly it is unlikely that salt crystals on the filter would change their arrangement over the 10 minutes of so I was in front of the surging tide.
6] Dust within the bellows???

Any and all help welcome.
Regards
Tony

jp
9-Nov-2016, 06:58
you've got dust or material stuck on the paper before or at the time of exposure. Scanning dust would be white since it gets inverted. Blow out the interior of your camera, clean your scanner glass. If the paper is 2nd hand, it could have been a piece dropped on the floor or something and put back in the bag. I'd avoid carpeted rooms if possible for loading film holders. I shoot at the damp salty ocean all the time and it probably reduces dust more than anything.

ic-racer
9-Nov-2016, 07:43
You didn't notice you paper negatives riddled with white spots when you processed them?

tonyowen
9-Nov-2016, 10:30
You didn't notice you paper negatives riddled with white spots when you processed them?
Jobo drum processing can't see paper in developer - didn't do more than glance at paper under orange safelight when transferring them from DDS to jobo tank.

regards
Tony

ic-racer
9-Nov-2016, 10:57
What is DDS? You don't wash and dry the paper in white light?

tonyowen
9-Nov-2016, 14:08
What is DDS? You don't wash and dry the paper in white light?
DDS = Double dark slide - all processing done in Jobo 2500 tank & 2509 insert.
The cutting, insertion of cut paper, removal of exposed cut paper, and insertion of same into Jobo reel is done with orange dark room light switched on.
Washing and drying of the developed, stopped and fixed papers is done in daylight or artificial light.
Hence the problem was only observed at the washing stage.
Given that I did not expect problems the above procedure is reasonable, and has worked without trouble before.
However, in hindsight and knowledge of the problem I could have done the fixing in 'white light' Or thoroughly inspected the paper
before cutting and/or insertion into the DDS.
regards
Tony

ic-racer
9-Nov-2016, 15:01
Ok, but are there white spots all over the processed paper negative? Or could you post a picture of the entire paper negative?

tonyowen
10-Nov-2016, 02:00
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Ok, but are there white spots all over the processed paper negative? Or could you post a picture of the entire paper negative?
As requested though I've had to save them as jpeg from the original tiff format.
regards
Tony

ic-racer
10-Nov-2016, 06:24
That has the appearance of sensitive material that has been dropped on the floor or has been placed on a dirty surface prior to exposure.

tonyowen
10-Nov-2016, 07:35
That has the appearance of sensitive material that has been dropped on the floor or has been placed on a dirty surface prior to exposure.
I don't disagree with your diagnosis - curiosity only, how are you so certain?
regards
Tony

jp
10-Nov-2016, 08:07
I might have learned the hard way not to use a sheet of film after dropping it on the floor while loading film holders.

ic-racer
10-Nov-2016, 13:38
how are you so certain?
regards
Tony

Many have learned the hard way.

Fred L
10-Nov-2016, 13:42
I'm going to be be contrarian and suggest it's a processing issue. The spots are not uniform density ie-they're all not totally black. If it was something physical that was on the paper, I would think they'd all be Zone 1. As it looks to me, some are Z1, some lighter etc.. Are u using powdered chemistry or liquid concentrate ?

tonyowen
11-Nov-2016, 01:40
I'm going to be be contrarian and suggest it's a processing issue. The spots are not uniform density ie-they're all not totally black. If it was something physical that was on the paper, I would think they'd all be Zone 1. As it looks to me, some are Z1, some lighter etc.. Are u using powdered chemistry or liquid concentrate ?

That was a reason for my initial query - also the "triple spot triangular sets" on image02 - In answer to your posting all undiluted chemicals are liquid. The concentrate is measured using a graduate, poured into jugs, then water added by weight to give 270ml /270g.
regards
Tony

ic-racer
11-Nov-2016, 17:54
I have processed maybe 10,000 prints but never have seen anything like that due to processing.

Ron (Netherlands)
12-Nov-2016, 03:22
The dark slides may likely have taken up these dust spots from the light trap felt or velvet that are deteriorated. So to overcome this, you will have to replace the velvet / felt light traps in the film holders.

tonyowen
12-Nov-2016, 07:36
The dark slides may likely have taken up these dust spots from the light trap felt or velvet that are deteriorated. So to overcome this, you will have to replace the velvet / felt light traps in the film holders.
Ron, I agree it is a possibility, but do not think so in this case.
Subsequent to the start of this thread I have examined and brushed the two bodies and the four slides of both DDS - nothing (obvious) resulted.
In addition I'm dealing with a step-change from the previous images - exposed using the same two DDS - which were virtually clear of any spotting.
Four "4x5" paper negatives were cut from a single 8x10 sheet of paper. Two sequentially exposed images from the same DDS had spotting - one severely and the other not quite as bad. The other two images from the other DDS had minor or almost zero spotting.
Ignoring the strangeness of the pattern and variation in density of spots on image02, the most likely culprit is a rogue or dirty 8x10 sheet of paper.
I was given opened three boxes of paper, so I can use a sheet of paper from the box in current use. If spotting occurs, I can try another box. If samples from all three boxes have spotting then the odds are it is something else, but at least I have ruled out the paper as being the problem.
[I know statistically and because I'm not using paper from sealed boxes that my premise can be challenged]
I'll update this thread when I've exposed and developed some more paper negative.
regards
Tony

tonyowen
19-Nov-2016, 02:29
I'll update this thread when I've exposed and developed some more paper negative.
regards Tony
157617 157618 157619 157620

I've taken 4 'snaps' , using exactly the same routine as before. Two in landscape mode and subsequently two in portrait mode. [I wondered if the dust came from rotation of the camera back.
No spotting, so the inference is that the previous sheet of paper used (that initiated this thread) had been corrupted.
Thank you all for your input in this matter.
regards
Tony