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Kleiny41
24-Oct-2016, 07:10
Greetings!

I shot and processed my first few sheets of 4x5 this weekend and there was an odd similarly shaped mark on all the sheets. I was wondering if
any of you would be able to identify this is a classic error of some kind?

I was shooting on a Crown Graphic, with the Kodak 127mm lens. I was using older IR film ( brand not identified) that expired in 2014 but was kept refrigerated and sealed with moisture absorbing packets. I pre-soaked the film in filtered water for 5 minutes. Stand developed in HC-110 for an hour with a few gentle agitations at the beginning and at 30 minutes. Fixed with Ilford rapid fixer. When I first took the sheets out of the daylight processing tank (an old FR brand tank) it looked like the turquoise cover layer hadn't washed off in the those large spots. I also noticed when I dumped the pre-soak water, it didn't have a color. When I dump the pre-soak water when I home process Rollei Infrared film, the water is a dark blue.

Many thanks!
Amanda

I'm open to any insights! I fully admit that I'm doing this all based on reading and watching tutorials. 156605156604156605

Ron789
24-Oct-2016, 07:50
Could it be that the sheets were stuck to each other in the processing tank? It's important that there is space between the film sheets; if not, the water and chemicals don't reach the film surface.
If the films were stuck to each other that would typically cause such marks and it would also explain why the pre-soak water was clear.

Alan9940
24-Oct-2016, 07:53
I'm not familiar with the tank you're using, but this looks to me like the chemicals didn't fully reach the entire film area. How are the sheets loaded into the tank? Could they possibly stick together?

Kleiny41
24-Oct-2016, 07:56
That makes sense. The sheets were stuck together- which surprised me but I did have a rough time loading the tank.

Kleiny41
24-Oct-2016, 07:57
156606

Alan9940
24-Oct-2016, 12:43
Wow, that thing is scary! IMO, you should review your choices of modern LF development systems; several tank options are available, as is BTZS tubes or Jobo tanks on a roller base, if you think you may prefer rotary development.

Good luck!

Jac@stafford.net
24-Oct-2016, 13:06
I think the tank is misconfigured. Are those blocks of wood inside? Remove them. Then move the two plastic pieces with V grooves facing each other so that a film can fit between each side of the film.

Something like this. I do not know what that part in the middle is.

156613

Got a name for that outfit?
.

Wayne Aho
24-Oct-2016, 13:19
The FR tanks have a separate light trap that fits on top of the film holder, and under the lid, it appears to be missing in the photo (which might explain the wooden blocks).

Kleiny41
24-Oct-2016, 13:37
Yeah, my tank doesn't have those wooden things. I just got a photo from the web to illustrate the main idea of those slots for each sheet.

Leigh
24-Oct-2016, 13:45
156606
Hi Amanda,

I use that same FR tank.

Your inserts are installed wrong. The fins of both should face inward.

I don't know what the brown things are.

Film is inserted one slot at a time. I suggest leaving an empty slot between any two film sheets.

There's a guide that fits laterally across the finned inserts, indexed by those bumps on each side.
The guide is moved one (or two) bumps after each film is inserted. It has a slot for the film to pass.

Here's a Youtube video on loading the tank:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo2gjeH9S2U

=====

Your 2014 film is probably still OK.

The blue in the pre-soak water is the anti-halation dye dissolving off the back of the film.
That's perfectly normal.
It would discolor the developer similarly if you did not use a pre-soak.

- Leigh

Duolab123
24-Oct-2016, 20:26
I would definitely recommend backing (or have some one ) back over the tank with a large truck. Good old FR Corp. They shortened their name to FR sometime in the 40's F stood for Fink not very inspiring :). There's so many better ways to develop sheet film. Hangers, reels, tubes etc.
It really looks like you had film in contact or near contact. Why is everyone doing stand development. Start with a Kodak darkroom data guide 6 hangers and 3ea. 1/2 gallon hard rubber tanks. If you don't want to spend a dime develop in a tray or a glass dish. Agitate as recommended and start with D-76 or a Ilford product

Leigh
24-Oct-2016, 20:55
I would definitely recommend backing (or have some one ) back over the tank with a large truck.
I find nothing wrong with the FR tank. As I said previously, I've used it with no problems whatsoever.


Why is everyone doing stand development.
Excellent question, for which I have no answer.

Stand development is nonsense with no practical value.
When using a compensating developer, you completely lose the compensating effect by using stand.

Process per the developer's instructions. My standard developer is Rodinal.
Whatever you choose, use the time and temperature as published by its maker.

- Leigh

koraks
25-Oct-2016, 02:00
Could it be that the sheets were stuck to each other in the processing tank?
That's what the pattern looks like. At first, I thought this couldn't be it, as it would result in undeveloped/low-density areas where the white spots are, but since they are lighter than the image in the positive, they must be relatively high density. But it may be areas where the back of the film was stuck to a surface so that the antihalation backing didn't wash away there. Try rewashing the films in a tray one by one to see if it clears.

Doremus Scudder
25-Oct-2016, 03:37
That's what the pattern looks like. At first, I thought this couldn't be it, as it would result in undeveloped/low-density areas where the white spots are, but since they are lighter than the image in the positive, they must be relatively high density. But it may be areas where the back of the film was stuck to a surface so that the antihalation backing didn't wash away there. Try rewashing the films in a tray one by one to see if it clears.

They're probably not completely fixed in the areas that were touching, leaving opaque, unfixed, undeveloped emulsion there. For an experiment, you can try refixing to see if the areas clear (they should), but the negatives are a total loss... Chalk it up to tuition for HKU (Hard Knocks University). Don't toss the bad negs; keep them to practice loading the tank with!

Best,

Doremus

jnantz
25-Oct-2016, 05:55
hi amanda

i have used the same tank ( i think i have 3 or 4 of them )
leigh's video link is a good one.

i'd load the tank with the film dry, not pre-soaked
you can always soak the film in the tank and pour out the dye.
if your tank is missing parts look for another that is complete
no point in using one with missing-stuff ( baffle +c ). the guide is helpful
but i have found it to be as much trouble with the guide as it is without.
the tanks probably sell cheap on ebay.

good luck !
john

Duolab123
25-Oct-2016, 20:50
I find nothing wrong with the FR tank. As I said previously, I've used it with no problems whatsoever.


Excellent question, for which I have no answer.

Stand development is nonsense with no practical value.
When using a compensating developer, you completely lose the compensating effect by using stand.

Process per the developer's instructions. My standard developer is Rodinal.
Whatever you choose, use the time and temperature as published by its maker.

- Leigh

OK, since I have at least one of everything, I dug out a FR tank, complete. And instruction book. I don't have the nerve to try this without my IR goggles. .I'm pretty sure these were a lot more useful when there was ortho film so you could load with a dim red safelight.
I'm pretty impressed that it will handle any cut or pack film ever made 4x5 on down. 1600 mL to develop 4x5 film would definitely encourage the use of a replenisher. . I stand by my recommendation to try open tanks and hangers in the dark. IF you have money there's several gizmos out there. Tubes reels drums. Nothing as easy as 6 hangers and 1/2 gallon tanks. I love the Crown Graphics I think I'm back down to two. What ever works for you is what to use. 20 years ago if someone told me I would be using a Jobo processor I would have laughed. BUT it's so much fun watching the thing spin back and forth :)
Best Regards Mike

Duolab123
25-Oct-2016, 21:08
Here's what all the parts look like that you need (guide bar is optional)
156645

You definitely need the light trap to work in room light

Best Regards, Mike

jnantz
26-Oct-2016, 03:24
Stand development is nonsense with no practical value.
...
My standard developer is Rodinal



not really. some people stand develop and get great results
never used rodinal or its liked-named cousins
i used my fr tanks with caffenol 130 or Dsumatranol
( coffee developer with a little print developer mixed in ) stand developed
for about 30-35 mins ... i've probably processed a couple hundred rolls
and armloads of sheet film this way, all brands all iso's ... never a problem.
(never a problem means easy to optically print or contact print or scan )

Robert Opheim
26-Oct-2016, 12:23
The FR and latter Yankee tanks work fine. They are the most affordable daylight tank for 4x5 sheet film. It looks like you have all of the parts. The parts include: the tank, the lid, 2 two movable slotted pieces (that inserted into the tank slots- adjusts for the different sizes of film, and last a film insertion guide. I suggest that you experiment with a couple of sheets of old bad film and learn how the film inserts through the guide into the slots, how to move the insertion guide, and then how the lid fits on (only one way) so that you can load the tank in the dark. Typically they leak chemicals a lot when agitation so I always wore gloves and did agitation over a sink - as the chemicals slopped out of the tank. I used a FR tank with a lot of success.

Duolab123
26-Oct-2016, 18:38
Greetings!

I shot and processed my first few sheets of 4x5 this weekend and there was an odd similarly shaped mark on all the sheets. I was wondering if
any of you would be able to identify this is a classic error of some kind?

I was shooting on a Crown Graphic, with the Kodak 127mm lens. I was using older IR film ( brand not identified) that expired in 2014 but was kept refrigerated and sealed with moisture absorbing packets. I pre-soaked the film in filtered water for 5 minutes. Stand developed in HC-110 for an hour with a few gentle agitations at the beginning and at 30 minutes. Fixed with Ilford rapid fixer. When I first took the sheets out of the daylight processing tank (an old FR brand tank) it looked like the turquoise cover layer hadn't washed off in the those large spots. I also noticed when I dumped the pre-soak water, it didn't have a color. When I dump the pre-soak water when I home process Rollei Infrared film, the water is a dark blue.

Many thanks!
Amanda

I'm open to any insights! I fully admit that I'm doing this all based on reading and watching tutorials. 156605156604156605

Duolab123
26-Oct-2016, 18:41
Greetings!

I shot and processed my first few sheets of 4x5 this weekend and there was an odd similarly shaped mark on all the sheets. I was wondering if
any of you would be able to identify this is a classic error of some kind?

I was shooting on a Crown Graphic, with the Kodak 127mm lens. I was using older IR film ( brand not identified) that expired in 2014 but was kept refrigerated and sealed with moisture absorbing packets. I pre-soaked the film in filtered water for 5 minutes. Stand developed in HC-110 for an hour with a few gentle agitations at the beginning and at 30 minutes. Fixed with Ilford rapid fixer. When I first took the sheets out of the daylight processing tank (an old FR brand tank) it looked like the turquoise cover layer hadn't washed off in the those large spots. I also noticed when I dumped the pre-soak water, it didn't have a color. When I dump the pre-soak water when I home process Rollei Infrared film, the water is a dark blue.

Many thanks!
Amanda

I'm open to any insights! I fully admit that I'm doing this all based on reading and watching tutorials. 156605156604156605

I'm having computer issues
Here are pictures

156680

156681

Duolab123
26-Oct-2016, 18:52
OKay pictures above the square light baffle is required under the lid for daylight development. If you don't have this you are stuck in the dark. The close up of the tank shows the tank configured for 4x5. The cross bar was used for smaller format sheets 2x3 etc to keep them in the bottom of the tank so you didn't need so much solution.

This tank will work fine in dark put the film in every other slot dry don't presoak, use HC-110 Dil B and agitate every minute. If you work in the dark you don't need the lid (or the light trap baffle).

Your film was floating around and settled on top of each other during the stand development.

I still recommend looking at hangers and open tanks. That's how it was done by Ansel Adams.

Best Mike