Wista, Sinar or Cambo 4x5.

[Fredrick]

Hi.

I've decided that I want a metal construction 4x5. I've had a Tachihara 4x5 and I remember it as being flimsy with longer lenses. Now that being said, I've been looking at the Wista 4x5 field cameras, they seem to be good (are they?). I'd want it to be rigid. I've also been looking at the 4x5 Sinars, in a previous thread I made I was made aware of the asymmetric tilt function, which I think would be nice. Does the Sinar F1-2 have this function or is it only the P1-2? The Sinars are also interesting due to the fact that you can mount a Sinar shutter on them (duh). Neither the Sinar or Wista are cheap option, but the Cambo (and clones) are very cheap. As little as $150. Are these cameras rigid and stable?

Now, I will mostly be using the camera for fieldwork, I shoot landscapes. Sometimes I will be trekking far, sometimes short. I'm aware that the weight of the Sinar P1-2 is around 7kg. That seems a bit on the heavy side. Is the asymmetric tilt function worth the extra weight? I'm inclined to go for the cheaper option, the Cambo. The Wista seems nice, but if the Cambo can be broken down and carried in a backpack, it seems to be the better alternative.


-Fredrick.

[Dan Fromm]

The way to make a Cambo compact for transport is to remove the bellows and rotate the standards 90 degrees so that the uprights are over the rail. With this done the camera will fit in a briefcase.

[Fredrick]

Is it possible to remove the standards from the rail? I have a pretty huge backpack, 130 Litres, which I guess I could fit either system into.

[photog_ed]

Have you considered the Toyo 45AII? It is a sturdy metal camera that is less costly than the Wista. I have been very happy with mine.

[Fredrick]

Have you considered the Toyo 45AII? It is a sturdy metal camera that is less costly than the Wista. I have been very happy with mine.

Yes. I seem to have mismatched the Toyo and Wista. I have been looking at the 45A. Most of the Toyo 45 on ebay seem to have some sort of bellow issues, or costs more than a new Chamonix...

[Dan Fromm]

Is it possible to remove the standards from the rail? I have a pretty huge backpack, 130 Litres, which I guess I could fit either system into.

Yes. Run the standard to the end of the rail, press on the lock, run the standard off the rail.

[Willie]

Linhof Technika is the choice of so many major name Landscape LF shooters. So many available these days at prices that are low. They are worth it.

[B.S.Kumar]

If you are going to be trekking, both the size and weight of the backpack are important. For landscape work, the asymmetric tilts of the Sinar P2 is overkill. The F2 has base tilts, and since it has the same very good angle and DoF calculator as the P2, it is quite convenient. There is a trick to making the F2 also fold up a little more compactly. The F2 has fine focus on the rear standard which is a nice thing to have.

The basic Cambo is a very good deal, and can be folded as Dan suggests.

You could also look at the older Toyos with the thinner 25mm rail. Put the standards onto a short rail, and it is not much larger than a Wista. They are tough, have geared rise/fall and shift, and share almost all accessories with the G series, except for the rails.

The differences between the Toyo45A, AX and AII are minor. The AX has rubberized knobs, and the AII adds a revolving back. In my neck of the woods, the AII sells for considerably more than the A or AX.

The Wistas (except the basic N model), add a great deal of flexibility - there are wide angle and extension bellows and beds, special recessed lens boards and generous movements. The very slight extra for the Wista is IMO very well worth it.

For landscape, my favorite cameras are the Wista SP and the Toyo D45M.

Kumar

[Alan Gales]

I used to buy monorail kits and part them out to sell on Ebay. I've owned quite a few Calumet/Cambo monorails. I've also owned a Sinar P for myself and a Sinar F. Even if you don't plan on using the Sinar Shutter I would much prefer a Sinar over a Cambo. That's my opinion.

I've also owned a Wista metal field camera for a short while. It was similar to the SP but a little older. A very good friend of mine owns a Toyo 45A. Both are fine cameras and it is a toss up between them. Some people prefer one and some the other. I would prefer the Wista VX over the SP to save a little weight.

For landscape work I would much prefer a Wista or Toyo folding metal camera over a monorail. They are easier to pack and much faster to set up.

[C Henry]

I used a Cambo monorail for landscape work for about five years. I carried the standards, with attached bellows in a Lowepro mini trekker, and carried the rail separately. It was a little bit of a pain, but then it is large format. Nothing happens quickly....

[Mark Darragh]

If you are looking at going down the metal monorail path you might want to consider Arca Swiss too. They are reasonable both from a weight and compactness perspective.

[Drew Wiley]

I've stayed with the Sinar system all these years due to the abundance of readily-available components and easy reconfiguration for extreme versatility. The F cameras as well as the P and X version have asymmetrical tilts; but for many applications that feature is largely irrelevant anyway. I wouldn't buy an F1 because
the F2 has as far superior front standard which is also a lot more durable. But my favorite Sinar of all is the Norma series, which predates the asymmetrical patents, but is more solid than the F series without the weight of the P. Better bellows than either, if you're lucky enough to find a camera that old with the original
tapered bellows still in pristine shape.

[Stephen Thomason]

New bellows for a 45A are about $100 and you can install them yourself.

The Sinar F's are an excellent choice as well.

[Ken Lee]

For hiking I would get an Arca Swiss Discovery (with Linhof Technika adapter) if you can find one.

I regret having sold mine it X years ago.

[neil poulsen]

I have both a Sinar hybrid (F rear, Norma front) and a Wista SP. I've owned a traditional Cambo 6x9 camera, which was very much like it's 4x5 big brother.

Based on your input, I lean towards recommending the Wista SP. While I have a rail camera for all it's capability, the Wista SP will be excellent for back packing and landscape.

It's a little lighter, and definitely more compact than either a Sinar or Cambo. I purchased the Wista and two lenses with the intention of turning them over. But after seeing the build quality and functionality of the Wista SP, it's a keeper. Plus, in case there's a need, it's capable of interchangeable bellows that include a bag bellows and two bellows that are longer than the standard, 300m bellows.

[neil poulsen]

To continue a bit, the Wista SP is quite a versatile camera.

But, it need not be one's only camera. A Sinar (F, F2, P?) rail camera can be very useful for many applications. (e.g. Architecture.) Depending on the model, Sinar's prices aren't so high that one couldn't consider having a second camera.

As for lensboards, the Wista SP takes Technika boards, and it's easy to find a Technika adapter board for a Sinar or many other cameras.

[Luis-F-S]

I'd get a Sinar F2. It's a great camera and hard to beat at today's prices!

[Fredrick]

At the moment it stands between the Sinar F1/2, the Cambo SC II and the Toyo 45A fieldcamera. The Sinar seems very intriguing, as I could buy an 8x10 conversion kit for it as well. I want to get back into 8x10 eventually. We shall see.

[David Karp]

I used to use a Cambo SC for all purposes. It was a workhorse. I used it on the short 12" rail and a bag bellows for everything up to a 210mm. I switched to the long rail above 210mm. Eventually, I upgraded to a Cambo 45 SF. I actually liked that camera a lot.

Gear lust overtook me eventually, and I sold the 45 SF when I purchased an ARCA Swiss Discovery with the telescoping rail. Ken is right, it is a very nice camera, especially with the telescoping rail and the Technika board adapter. Even so, I still prefer to backpack with a folding camera. Mine is a Walker Titan 45SF. I really like it too. I think Neil's comment is pertinent also. You can use a monorail in the field, which I still do from time to time, but a camera purpose built for field work is sometimes preferable.

[Cor]

Do not forget the Linhof Color, basically a Technika IV on a monorail, quick to set up, rock solid, very ugly..(who cares..;-).). Great deals can be found on this camera if you are patient, they do not show up that often. Oh it fits nicely in a medium sized backpack.

Good luck,

Cor

[Sean Mac]

I bought a Linhof Color for my first LF camera. It is less ugly with the beige paint removed but the Technika lensboard is a restriction.

I'm thinking of a Sinar Norma next in order to be able to use a Sinar shutter.

The people who say your first LF camera won't be your last are right in my case anyway.

Good luck whatever you choose...

[Drew Wiley]

As far as functionality, I have always preferred backpacking with the Sinar. It is much faster and more versatile to operate than any folder. You can pretty much
leave everything on, including a lens and compendium shade, and simply extend the bellows to shoot. And the range of lenses you can easily accommodate is
almost unlimited either short or long. But alas, the system takes up quite a bit of room in a pack, and is a bit heavy, so nowadays I do take a folder on long trips instead, which is clumsier to set up.

[neil poulsen]

Do not forget the Linhof Color, basically a Technika IV on a monorail, quick to set up, rock solid, very ugly..(who cares..;-).). Great deals can be found on this camera if you are patient, they do not show up that often. Oh it fits nicely in a medium sized backpack.

Good luck,

Cor

There are two versions of which to be aware. There's a later white (usually white) version that is open at the top of the rear standard. Recall that a Technika Master has a portion of the top that's hinged. Releasing the latches on either side allows one to raise the front standard higher than usual. The white version of the Lihhof Color has that top portion removed. So, one's getting advantages of a Linhof Master Technika and quite a bit more at much less cost. (Usually < $500.)

The brown version does not have this portion of the top of the standard removed, so it inhibits rise for superwide angle lenses.

I had the white version many years ago and found that it is relatively easy to backpack. A complete rail is divided into about a 6" section and a longer 12" to 15" (?) section that makes it possible to load the camera onto the 6" section that can be stowed in a backpack. The longer section can be stored elsewhere in the backpack.

[B.S.Kumar]

The top portion of the front standard was not totally removed, but there was a " cut-out". The bellows was also a "universal" type, both of which made it easier to raise the lens when the bellows was not extended much. The very last Linhof Color version also had rise on the rear standard.

Kumar

[Sean Mac]

The later version with the two piece rail and rear rise is reviewed on the LF homepage

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/linhof/kardan-color.html

The Kardan Color is, of course, not to be confused with the Color Kardan. :rolleyes: