Looking for my first LF camera...

[lithedreamer]

Hi all,

I've been reading Ansel Adams' first three books (The Camera, The Negative, The Print) and started looking into large format cameras. After some research online, I decided to pick up a copy of View Camera Technique and have been wanting to try 4x5 for myself. I just graduated, but don't have a job anymore, so I have the dilemma of 'plenty of time, but not a lot of money'.

I've shot and developed B&W and C-41 35mm film and the beauty of large format wood field cameras is definitely part of what interests me (and has me standing a chance of getting my partner's approval for a purchase). I'm primarily interested in landscapes and portraiture, so although movements interest me, I'm more interested in image quality and portability. How much should I expect to spend for everything I need?

* The Blackjacket focus cloths look especially convenient, and are about the same price as the typical ones B&H sells (~$85 vs ~$75).
* I already have a loupe I use for examining my 35mm negatives, is 10x still useful for view cameras?
* The cheapest decent body-only wood field camera appears to be for a used Wista 45dx. The movements seem reasonable, it's light, but $750 is quite a bit to put down when I still need to buy a focus cloth, film holders, film, loupe, and developing tank. Some of the listings on eBay include multiple items, so maybe I can save money by buying a set.

Thanks for reading!

Edit: I've seen some auctions where the cameras have crumpled and/or taped bellows, how concerning is this?

[Doremus Scudder]

Hi all, ... How much should I expect to spend for everything I need?

* The Blackjacket focus cloths look especially convenient, and are about the same price as the typical ones B&H sells (~$85 vs ~$75).
* I already have a loupe I use for examining my 35mm negatives, is 10x still useful for view cameras?
* The cheapest decent body-only wood field camera appears to be for a used Wista 45dx. The movements seem reasonable, it's light, but $750 is quite a bit to put down when I still need to buy a focus cloth, film holders, film, loupe, and developing tank. Some of the listings on eBay include multiple items, so maybe I can save money by buying a set.

Thanks for reading!

Edit: I've seen some auctions where the cameras have crumpled and/or taped bellows, how concerning is this?

Welcome to the world of large format. I'll try and address some of your questions.

First, your 10x loupe will work well for 4x5; that is exactly what I use much of the time. That said, may prefer loupes with less magnification, i.e., in the 4x-6x range. The best loupes have a focusing adjustment and a skirt that tilts in order to get a better view of the corners of the ground glass. These are quite expensive. My "poor-man's workaround" is to use an 8x or 10x loupe backwards, i.e., with the skirt cupping my eye. This means you have to find the right viewing distance from the ground glass by moving your head back and forth. Not a problem for me and I can see easily into the corners by simply changing the angle of view.

The Wista DX is an excellent camera. I own three of them and use them all regularly. Other wood field cameras you might be an the lookout for are Tachihara, Shen Hao and Chamonix.These manufacturers make a several different models, so do look carefully to make sure you get what you think you are getting. As for the Wista DX models: the DXII lacks the shift movement that the DX and DXIII have. Shift is such a useful movement, I personally wouldn't own a camera without it.

Bellows crumple: Most folding field cameras have bellows-limited movements with short lenses leading photographers to force the bellows on occasions when extreme movements are needed. This can damage the bellows to the extent that the camera will no longer close properly or, worse, develop holes and leak light. I have a DX that won't close for this very reason (I bought it cheap for parts). I'd look for a model with bellows in good shape and without any crumple. A little crumple won't hurt things that much though, and you may be able to get a better deal on a camera with a bit of crumple. As for taped bellows; that means there are holes and that the bellows is likely on its way out. I'd avoid cameras with taped bellows unless you plan on replacing the bellows. There are replacement bellows available from China for most cameras in the $100-range. You need to be a bit of a DIYer to do the replacement work.

If you can make do with a monorail camera, you can often find better deals. The wooden folders seem to be at a premium these days. My first camera was a Graphic View II. I still have it and use it for table-top work. Lots of movements and capability and often available for under $200 (watch out not to get one without the tripod mounting block!). Older Calumet monorails are also good deals.

There are good deals on metal folding "press" or "technical" cameras. The Horseman 45A and Wista metal folders come to mind as do the older Speed and Crown Graphics. These latter have more limited movements but have many adherents.

Mostly, be patient. A deal will turn up sooner or later.

Best,

Doremus

[Bruce Barlow]

For openers, get a cheap black t-shirt from Walmart. Put the neck over the rear of the camera and use it as a dark cloth. Perfectly acceptable and usable until you feel like using something else. Personally, my expensive dark cloths are folded and put away, even for my 5x7 and 8x10s.

I love my Wista, and just put on new bellows after 30 years. Get a 210mm Symmar as your first lens - it's a great all-around lens for everything including portraits, and they're available for not much money.

Film holders. The more the better. I have 30. The last thing you need is to see the picture of a lifetime five minutes after exposing your last sheet of film.

Good luck.

[Jim Jones]

As always, Doremus gives reliable advice. If I was starting out with little money, an old monorail would be the logical first choice. The Burke & James, Calumet, and Graphic View are three of the more common ones. I've owned and used all three. A 5x7 Burke & James flatbed was my primary large format camera for years. These lack the beauty of classic wood and brass view cameras, but produce just as good images. If you'd rather look at fine photographs than elegant cameras, start with almost any monorail. Even a press camera like the Speed Graphic and the popular Crown Graphic can capture most of the images for which a view camera excels. When buying a view camera, carefully consider any lens that comes with them. Often that is a press camera lens, capable of fine photos until one must use the front standard movements which are a strong advantage of view cameras.

Many accessories can be improvised. I develop sheet film in whatever trays are handy. Fabric remnants can work almost as well as expensive dark cloths. Most of the old film holders I've used worked perfectly. Lens hoods and caps can be improvised. Many containers work as camera cases. Use your imagination. When you are tempted to buy photo accessories, analyze just what those items do and see if there is an inexpensive work-around. One exception is a tripod. A good one lasts a lifetime. It doesn't have to be expensive to be good. I've owned and used four Tilt-All tripods over the past 40+ years, and bought another one for a friend. None cost as much as $100. Tripods have recently been imported under the Tilt-All name, but may not equal the American made quality of the original ones.

[Liquid Artist]

If I was going to advise a friend in your shoes the first thing that I would say is get a job.
I am not trying to be mean, but LF is an expensive ( for me ) pastime.

I have easily spent $1,000 basically getting started on every format. Yes you can get a starter camera with lens and a couple of film holders for $200 however the film is another $50, additional lenses, etc.
I am sure that you get the idea.

After you start a job I would say go nuts and have fun.

[Bill_1856]

Save your money. Unless there are things that your present equipment can't do, there is no reason to go to the extreme expense and complications of Large Format.

[Alan Gales]

Wistas are great cameras. I've seen Shen Haos go for as low as $700 on Ebay. As mentioned earlier wooden field cameras go for a premium.

Some will recommend that you buy a Crown Graphic. You can get a nice one for around $300. The problem is that they have no back movements and limited front movements.

I recommend a light monorail like a beginner Cambo or Calumet or Toyo. When I say light I mean light for a monorail. You can get a real nice monorail for $200 or less. I've seen old ones in usable shape go for as low as $50 on Ebay.

The 210mm f/5.6 Schneider Symmar mentioned above is a great lens for a dirt cheap price. Expect to pay $150 to $200 for a nice example. You may even find one together with a monorail.

I own a Blackjacket focus cloth for my 8x10. I really like it as it gets really dark under it. I also own a BTZS focus cloth for 4x5. It doesn't get quite as dark but it is faster to use. It's a bit less fussy than the Blackjacket. Both are really nice but of course on a budget you can use a black T shirt or sweatshirt like mentioned earlier.

Try your 10X loupe and see if you like it. Some prefer something not as strong like a 4X loupe. It all depends upon what works with your eyes. If you want an inexpensive 4X loupe then look at a Peak loupe. B&H has them.

The best way to spend your money is on film.

Have fun and welcome to the forum.

[Alan Gales]

I missed that part where you said you don't have a job yet. Liquid Artist is right. Film alone is going to cost you plenty and having equipment that you can't use is going to frustrate you.

[M Harvey]

Can't really disagree that large format can be tough without a steady revenue stream from other activities :) However, I also didn't spend that much to get started. Short version:
- I started with a Cambo/Calumet monorail with some film holders thrown in for free. The fact that it was very cheap aside, I am glad that I learned the large format procedure with that simple, precise monorail. And when I finally found a wooden field camera (a Wisner Tech Field) that I could afford, I had enough experience with LF to know what I functions I needed-- and which I did not, and therefore didn't need to spend extra for. (Sorry-- I know you probably don't want to hear yet another recommendation of monorails!)
-As far as film holders; I think you'd be just fine starting off with 2 (=4 shots). (I often shoot no more than 3-5 shots in a portrait session.)
-As far as lens: I think you can't go wrong with a 150mm 5.6 from any of the major manufacturers (Schneider, Fuji, Nikon, Rodenstock). Not only are they likely to be cheapest, but you can use them for both landscapes and portraits. FWIW, I find that large format is different than 35mm in that I don't need to have a wide range of lenses-- the camera itself makes any standard lens more versatile.
-Agree that you'll want a good tripod. But that doesn't mean the latest carbon fiber Gitzo, etc. Think sturdy and heavy.
-I started with a cheap sheet of fabric store nylon-like material as a darkcloth. Didn't like it, but it did the job! The black t-shirt idea above sounds pretty good.
-Finally: agree that the real place to put your money at first is on film. The more you shoot, the more you'll know whether or not large format is for you, and what you need in your next camera. It's hard to know quite what you're getting into-- and how it works for your own work-- until you've spent some time doing it. So if you can scrape together the funds to get going, I think your situation of having a lot of time on your hands might be just right!

[Liquid Artist]

I can actually take it in another direction. There may be a member here that can loan you what you need to get started. We would need to have an idea where you live first though.
Most people here have more cameras than we can possibly use.

if you happen to live close to me I would be happy to not only loan you a 4x5 ( Calumet monorail ) but I would also give you a free lesson how to use it.
Plus I have a daylight tank that you could also use to develop your own film, and even a spare 4x5 enlarger you could borrow.
You may actually discover that the 4x5 format isn't for you. In my case 5x7 is my choice format, which I would also let you try.

[IanG]

I've used a Wista 45DX for about 30 years and it was second hand when I bought it. It's been an amazing camera it's getting a bit battered and worn but it's had heavy use. I had already been using LF for a decade when i bought the Wista so knew exactly what I wanted.

The OP doesn't say where he is, here in the UK I picked up an MPP MkIII, essentially a slightly more modern UK version of the Linhof Technika II for £75 (approx $100_a good all-round camera, metal bodied rather than wooden but good movements and a lot more bellows draw compared to my Wista 45DX or Super Graphic and a fraction of the price.

Ian

[M Harvey]

Great deal on a wooden Nagaoka 4x5, lenses, film holders, etc. right now in "for sale"...

[Liquid Artist]

Great deal on a wooden Nagaoka 4x5, lenses, film holders, etc. right now in "for sale"...

The OP just joined a week or so ago, so unless someone PM's him the details he can't view it.

[Luis-F-S]

Wistas are great cameras.....The 210mm f/5.6 Schneider Symmar mentioned above is a great lens for a dirt cheap price. Expect to pay $150 to $200 for a nice example. You may even find one together with a monorail.
Have fun and welcome to the forum.

++1, or any of the other 210 mm lenses, ie caltar II's, Rodenstock Sironars, Nikkors, etc. Just get one in good shape with a modern working shutter! I've bought two Sinar F2's in the past year for $350 ea. Got them for "extras". This may represent a much better deal to you than a wooden folder, but it's your call! Whatever you get, you will probably replace it within a year or less, so don't spend too much on it!

[Larry the Sailor]

Another newbie wanting to get in to LF (likely 4x5) here.
Take your time, figure out what you want to do with the camera. Then learn about cameras that will do what you want them to do. I'm guestimating I'm 4-6 months out from pulling the trigger on a purchase. In that time I'll peruse the various forums on the web, here and APUG, watch what comes and goes in the classifieds and on evilbay and figure out what I need infrastructure wise to support LF developing and printing. Just having a camera wouldn't do much good if you can't develop the film and have some way to either scan the negatives or print them.
I already have an enlarger and needed parts, lens and neg carriers, I can use and won't need too much for film developing.
now it's just a matter of deciding what camera kit I want to buy into.

[jose angel]

Please let me to think aloud one more time... :D

Don`t waste too much time thinking on the perfect camera that suit your needs at 100% (well, or 95%).
Most newbies look for:

The lightest weight
Full movement capability
Very low price
Nice look, or at least, a good, renowned camera maker
Mechanical perfection
The sharpest lens; I mean not a sharp one, but usually the sharpest in the market.

This camera doesn`t exist. We all like this features, but some compromises should be accepted.
My first camera was the most capable and expensive one; now I have several (actually, too much) cameras, and my favorite (or at least, my most used ones) are probably the most basic, easy to use, limited capability ones. They can be had in the used market for cheap. To shoot landscapes or people or architecture, a big and complex camera is not needed (one tend to avoid "forced" images, the more "natural" look the better). I sometimes need really long bellows, or extreme movements; it is not so common, so I think buying an extreme camera from a start is not useful at all.

Lets be realistic. LF is sharp by itself. I also bet most people don`t print as big as they mention (looks like everybody made extremely big prints, but if you ask to paper suppliers they scarcely sell 16x20" sheet boxes, very rarely bigger sizes, most people buy 8x10" or 11x14" at much). Same for commercial printing facilities... it is very difficult to even find open shops working on it!
At this sizes any good lens will work. Exotic or ultra expensive lenses are overkill to get that extremely sharp prints. And the choice of film and developer will provide the sharpest looking prints.

You can struggle your head thinking on the things you want to do with your camera... IMHO, it is somewhat difficult to figure it out. One tend to extrapolate from their experience in smaller formats, it is not useful at all (mmmm, if I use a 105mm for portraits in 35mm, I should buy a 300mm for 4x5"... -no-.). I think I had to start shooting to know it, or to know when and where movements are really useful, or to know which other accessories I really need, like the size of the tripod or the head type that works for me.

Like Larry says, I`d go for LF only if processing is done by oneself. Sending out the film to be developed and printed is a nonsense. One of the best things of shooting sheet film is to expose and develop in a one by one basis. If not, it`d be better to shoot 6x7" with a good&precise camera and roll film.

[jose angel]

BTW, to answer OP`s questions.
I just use a simple sheet of thin synthetic black material, one side has a slight velvet finish. Extremely light but still dense and light blocking (although not 100%), I prefer it -by far- to any manufactured, camera brand focus cloth. I sewn an elastic band to fit the back standard. Great to be also used as a black background or as a "light eater" when needed. Cost is (very likely) under $10.
The loupe; I`m quite exquisite and maniacal here. Only good ones, preferable wide diameter aspherical, adjustable ones only. Expensive, but of course a much cheaper one will work. 10x seem too much for me, I prefer 4x to 6x (max. 8x, depending on the specific GG). I`d buy cheaper ones until you find the one (magnification, size) that works for you.
Film holders should be in perfect shape, not that expensive.
About the dev tank, my advice is to go for the MOD45 with a Paterson tank. The tank will work for smaller formats with reels. A bit expensive, I`m afraid, not perfect but quite practical.
About the camera, I agree with Doremus. I`m very fond of metal folders, I find (most of) them to be fast, easy to use, reliable and quite rigid. Wood is nice but may be too much expensive if in good shape.

[Leigh]

Regarding the dark cloth...

I much prefer the two-piece type with one white cloth covering one black cloth.

This can make a big difference in comfort under hot sun, for both you and the camera.

- Leigh

[Jim Jones]

Lithedreamer, you have good advice here to study. Also, go back through other posts. You'll get conflicting advice because we are all different. Follow those that match your pocketbook and heart. Photo equipment doesn't need to be nearly new to produce great photos. Hanging on my wall is a digital print of an image taken in 1873 of ruins in the Canyon de Chelly by Timothy O'Sullivan. The lens was perhaps a Rapid Rectilinear, designed in 1866 and obsolete a hundred years ago. Ansel Adams photographed the same scene almost 70 years later from almost exactly the same point but with better gear. I prefer the O'Sullivan version despite the primitive equipment and difficult working conditions of his time. It's the photographer, not the camera, that makes the photograph. Study the photographs of Eugene Atget. For years he used poor lenses, but created a valuable record of the Paris of his time. The LF lens I've used more than any other is a 203mm f/7.7 Kodak Ektar, a formula a hundred years old but still in production. New is nice, but making the most of whatever one has can be better. For a loupe, a single element map magnifier or cheap plastic loupe lets me focus accurately. It's not necessary to gloat over the perfection of the image on the ground glass. One merely needs to focus well enough to capture it. Some photographers make much of their equipment. This works for those with time and shop equipment, but isn't cost effective for most. However, improvising instead of buying is often practical.

Most of all, study. Knowledge is power. It helps you to invest and act wisely. This is true of many subjects. Isaac Newton said, "If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Acting without knowledge is wandering in the wilderness. Knowledge without action is pointless. Pursue both.

[Liquid Artist]

Lets be realistic. LF is sharp by itself. I also bet most people don`t print as big as they mention (looks like everybody made extremely big prints, but if you ask to paper suppliers they scarcely sell 16x20" sheet boxes, very rarely bigger sizes, most people buy 8x10" or 11x14" at much). Same for commercial printing facilities... it is very difficult to even find open shops working on it!
At this sizes any good lens will work. Exotic or ultra expensive lenses are overkill to get that extremely sharp prints. And the choice of film and developer will provide the sharpest looking prints.

Your not wrong here,
I worked in a lab for 3 years, and there were probably some weeks that our biggest print was 5x7.
I personally print my 4x5 on 8x10 paper, and my 5x7 on 11x14 for my personal use. I jump up at least one size for galleries, and refuse to display anything smaller than 11x14.
The largest I have printed is 20x24, mostly because that is the largest sheet paper I have found. I am not set up for rolls yet.

As for labs printing your work.
I just took a 5x7" Velvia 50 slide into a pro lab for two prints.
The colours are beautiful, and most people think the images are breathtaking. I am disappointed because of the lack of detail. It's in the slide, but not the print. So I am thinking that their flatbed scanner may not meet my standards.
As a result I think I will just continue to have my colour work drum scanned, which again is very expensive.

[Jody_S]

Don't spend the bulk of your money on the camera if you can help it, a camera is easily replaced if you find one or another doesn't suit you. Also, I would avoid any camera that requires special lens boards. I (re-) started with a wooden folding Burke & James 4x5 which I purchased with a very sharp Xenar lens for $100 (realistically $2-300 today for a usable copy). They come painted in battleship grey, but there's beautiful maple underneath if you take the time to break it down and refinish it. I spent more than that buying 1 replacement part for the Deardorff 8x10 I tried next, which I soon sold because it was too heavy for me to carry far.

As others have said, all cameras are compromises, so if the 'look' is an important factor, I suggest you start looking at some antiques from the 1900-1930 period, where you can find beautiful leather-covered mahogany self-casing cameras that might need a little TLC to use but more than make up for it with looks. Just do your homework and make sure they use standard film holders in some standard size where film is still readily available.

[joneil]

My suggestion is to go with a good, used "Press Camera". I've got 5, 4x5 and one 8x10 cameras, and my favourite for "grab and go" is my Crown Graphic. Tons of parts, sturdy, easy to use, and as other have said, it's the lens first, camera second. You may not get the range of movements on a press camera like you do other models, but you know something, I have found that the most common movement i need or use is front rise, which you get a lot of use out of in a crown or speed graphic.

Also, will second the opinion on the Schneider Xenar lens. Maybe the range of movements is not that great compared to others, but an amazingly sharp lens for the money you can get them today. As for size, in my case, I still love the 135mm size. Ended up buying a new Rodenstock 135mm later on.

One last thing, watch local auctions, ones NOT associated with photography. You can check them out online. Over the years, I have picked up two really nice used cameras for a very decent price that way.

[joneil]

Regarding the dark cloth...

I much prefer the two-piece type with one white cloth covering one black cloth.

This can make a big difference in comfort under hot sun, for both you and the camera.

- Leigh

I agree, except I did it a little different. Went to Wal-Mart, bought two towels, one light, one dark, tacked them together, and voila! :)

[Leigh]

Went to Wal-Mart, bought two towels, one light, one dark, tacked them together, and voila! :)
That certainly works.

After all, a dark cloth need be only reasonably light tight, not absolutely so.

You do need a stapler IMO.

- Leigh

[Liquid Artist]

towels do work in a pinch, however i would suggest a small blanket instead. Possibly a baby blanket.
I just find towels too small to wrap around the camera when you really need to seal out the light.

[lithedreamer]

Thanks for all the input everyone! I do have some savings (and with ~100 job applications pending) I figured this would be a nice way to spend my free time while I wait for follow-up on jobs. That being said, it looks to be a little more expensive to start out than I expected, as I should be adding the cost of developing and printing. I'm going to lurk on the forums around here while I do more research and keep my eye on eBay auctions. There's no rush, it's all for fun. Again, I appreciate all of the advice.

[Liquid Artist]

you will have access to the classified section here soon, and when you buy on this site you gain the knowledge of the member. Not to mention I have never seen anyone charge more than actual shipping costs.

[John Kasaian]

First, find a copy of Using The View Camera It has a lot of very useful information on building your LF camera kit, especially with used stuff. Read it while you wait for access to the For Sale section of this forum. There are even instructions for sewing your own focusing cloth if you can sew or know someone who does.
Yes, you can certainly shoot 4x5 on a budget.
Check the articles on the LF Homepage on the blue banner at the top of this page for a wealth of info, comparisons and reviews on LF equipment.
Have fun!

[Alan Gales]

First, find a copy of Using The View Camera It has a lot of very useful information on building your LF camera kit, especially with used stuff. Read it while you wait for access to the For Sale section of this forum. There are even instructions for sewing your own focusing cloth if you can sew or know someone who does.
Yes, you can certainly shoot 4x5 on a budget.
Check the articles on the LF Homepage on the blue banner at the top of this page for a wealth of info, comparisons and reviews on LF equipment.
Have fun!

+1 on the book and the LF Homepage.

I own Using the View Camera by Steve Simmons. It is very well written and easy to understand.

https://www.amazon.com/Using-View-Camera-Creative-Photography/dp/0817463534/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1477456501&sr=1-1&keywords=Using+the+view+camera

[Ted R]

This is obvious so you have probably given it thought already, what about the printing side of things? Negatives need to be printed somehow to be admired. 4x5 can be contact printed without an enlarger (use an enlarger timer and a naked light bulb). Anything larger requires enlarging, and 4x5 enlargers take up space and the better ones aren't light or cheap.

I started in LF with whole plate 6.5x8.5in for the advantage of the larger size of contact prints, the whole plate camera also had a 4x5 back so I had two formats for contact printing, whole plate B&W and 4x5 color which I had processed commercially. The whole plate camera and lenses were significantly lower in cost than 8x10 equivalents.

[orgraph]

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?134245-FS-Nagaoka-4x5-150mm-and-90mm-lenses It is your choise. + Nikkor 300/9 + 5 TOYO holders (last version) + black T-shirt + cable relise + Feisol tripod http://www.feisoleurope.com/feisol-tournament-tripod-ct3442-rapid-p-31.html + Fuji Acros film or FOMA 100 or FP4 :-)

I prefere Nagaoka + Congo 90/6,3 + (Congo 120/6.3) + Fuji 150/6,3 + Nikkor 300/9 The lightest kit for traweling
https://www.flickr.com/photos/52922077@N08/

I have also Linhof III, Wista SP, Tachihara and ~ 15 lenses

Yuriy Sanin

[Larry the Sailor]

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?134245-FS-Nagaoka-4x5-150mm-and-90mm-lenses It is your choise. + Nikkor 300/9 + 5 TOYO holders (last version) + black T-shirt + cable relise + Feisol tripod http://www.feisoleurope.com/feisol-tournament-tripod-ct3442-rapid-p-31.html + Fuji Acros film or FOMA 100 or FP4 :-)

I prefere Nagaoka + Congo 90/6,3 + (Congo 120/6.3) + Fuji 150/6,3 + Nikkor 300/9 The lightest kit for traweling
https://www.flickr.com/photos/52922077@N08/

I have also Linhof III, Wista SP, Tachihara and ~ 15 lenses

Yuriy Sanin

That's it, tease the new guys... :)

[DHodson]

Welcome to the forum - as you've seen, lot's of knowledgeable users here and all very willing to help.

Maybe somebody mentioned it already and I missed it but you should plan on picking up a 1 degree spot meter. You can take pictures without one but having any kind of control on your exposures is tough. They're around but getting harder to find bargains on - usually in the $200 - $300 range but sometimes you get lucky. Having said that I see an older Pentax V being offered here today for $99. You can always piggyback on a digital camera meter but you need enough telephoto to get selective readings and that gets a bit cumbersome after a while.

Regards
Dave

[Larry the Sailor]

The OP and I are in the same boat as far as classifieds here. Looks we both joined up the same day and still have a week or so to go before classifieds are available.
That's why i commented about teasing the new guys.
:)

[Tim Meisburger]

There is a nice Ikeda Anba on sale on ebay, with a good lens, for about $400. That is a great deal on a very lightweight camera with most movements. I had one as my first camera and used it for three years, then sold it to buy a Tachi, then sold that to buy an Ebony, but along the way, I found another Ikeda, and bought that as well, as I missed the lightness of that. I still use it as my main lightweight travel camera.

[Jim Jones]

. . .Maybe somebody mentioned it already and I missed it but you should plan on picking up a 1 degree spot meter. . . .

A spot meter is nearly essential for Zone System photographers and for others deeply interested in technical aspects of photography. For most of us, with experience a traditional reflected light meter or even an incident light meter will suffice. B&W film is forgiving. Remember, for the first hundred years of photography, no one used a photoelectric light meter. Some magnificent photos were made in that time. For decades my preferred meter has been an ancient Weston Master II.