Anyone have a MEOPTA MEOPAR 210mm?

[Tim Meisburger]

I would like to know if it covers 4x5, and which shutter size it fits. I've googled it with no luck. Does anyone have one and know?

[Dan Fromm]

Tim, you may have put the question to Google too narrowly. Look at the results of this search, especially Arne Croell's comments:

https://www.google.com/search?as_q=meopta+meopar&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&lr=&cr=&as_qdr=all&as_sitesearch=&as_occt=any&safe=active&as_filetype=&as_rights=

[Tim Meisburger]

Thanks Dan. I found it covers 5x7 (!), and Arne says it can be front-mounted to a shutter, but doesn't mention which shutter.

[Dan Fromm]

Tim, about front mounting. I'll bet it won't screw directly into a shutter.

I use a variety of lenses in barrel, not all of them process lenses, hung in front of shutters. Hanging a 210 Meopar in front of a shutter will probably require an adapter, most likely a cup-shaped threaded bushing. Front end deep enough to engage the lens' mounting threads and threaded to mate with them, rear threaded to mate with the shutter's front tube. The closer the lens' rear element is to the shutter, the better. You might be able to get away with a #1 if you don't need much movements. Polaroid MP-4 Copal Press #1 shutters have no diaphragm so are usually inexpensive. If you want movements an Ilex or Alphax #3 would be a better bet. The larger the shutter's iris diameter the better.

[Tim Meisburger]

Thanks Dan. Since I would use it for portraits, I probably would need much movement, so Polaroid might be the answer, if the hole is big enough. If anyone has a miopar, can you measure the mount diameter?

[Dan Fromm]

Tim, its an f/4.5er. The rear cell almost certainly won't fit in the front of a #1 (M40x0.75), let alone engage the threads. You'll need an adapter.

If you get an adapter, remind the machinist to thread the adapter's rear tube's interior to tame glancing reflections. If not done, flare, flare and more flare. Don't ask how I kinow.

[Tim Meisburger]

Okay. I found the rear thread diameter in an ebay ad. 53mm. But I cannot find any list of the size of shutter entrances (just lensboard holes). I have a Copal 3 and a big Compound on my Tele-Xenar 360mm that I can measure when I get home, but neither fits very well on my little 4x5s. Are there any smaller shutters with a 53 or larger entrance?

[Dan Fromm]

Tim, please pay attention. Front-mounting rarely means "sticking the lens' rear tube into the front of a shutter." It usually means "screw the lens' barrel into an adapter, then screw the adapter into the shutter." That's how it is done.

You may be concerned about mechanical vignetting. This can be a problem, especially with short lenses, and is why I had an Ilex #3 greatly modified so that I could (here's the exception that tests the rule) stuff a 60/14 Perigraphe into it and use the lens on 2x3. Read about that adventure and see some of my cup-shaped adapters at http://www.galerie-photo.com/telechargement/dan-fromm-6x9-lenses-v2-2011-03-29.pdf

A crude geometric model gives a fairly good idea of when mechanical vignetting will be a problem. If (obstacle's height)/(distance from center of lens to obstacle) < (format's diagonal)/(focal length) vignetting won't be a problem. With front mounting, the obstacle's height is the diameter of the shutter's aperture. With my 60/14 Perigraphe, the obstacle that matters is the end of the shutter's rear tube.

It should be clear that the shorter the adapter is and the closer the lens' rear element is to the obstacle the better.

[Tim Meisburger]

Right, but if I can make a threaded insert with the shutter threads on the outside and the lens threads on the inside, I'm golden. Right? Or, I could use hot glue, if the fit is close.

[Dan Fromm]

You're not golden, you're a lot poorer. Read http://www.suaudeau.eu/memo/pratique/Les_obturateurs_centraux.html and weep.

In short, Compound #3, Compur #3, Ilex and Alphax #4 and larger might do. If you have a spare one, wonderful, otherwise $$$. Cup-shaped adapter in an Ilex #3 Universal or Alphax #3 is still your best bet.

[Tim Meisburger]

Okay. Thank you. That list is very complete. I don't have a spare shutter, and by the time I got one, or got an adapter, I might as well buy a Heliar, which I see now and then in shutter for a reasonable price. This looks like it would work well with a packard, on a speed, or with a front mounted roller blind, but I'm really looking for something compact enough to tote around with my lightweight travel kit.

[Dan Fromm]

Right. Another example of the reason why a lens in barrel is usually a worse deal than the equivalent lens in shutter, even when the lens is a gift.

Front-mounting hasn't been a horrible deal for me because many of my adapters will accept several of my lenses. But as we know, I'm an outlier.

[Ramgad]

I would like to know if it covers 4x5, and which shutter size it fits. I've googled it with no luck. Does anyone have one and know?
I use mine on a Graflex Super D and it was better than expected - better than my heliar 21cm from 1919 at portrait distance, slighty more contrast and sharp up to the edges (4x5). For 5x7 and over all sharpness heliars must be stopped down to 8 or 11.
For mounting the lens in front of a shutter (without vignetting) you need a compound IV shutter. On my Linhof, I use an Zettor front mounted shutter.
The meopar 21cm and my 18cm Heliar (in barrel) from 1903 are my favorite lenses on the Graflex.