View Full Version : Should this thread be Deleted? Thumbs Up or Down? - sample from the Romans
goamules
1-Sep-2016, 11:38
Testing my idea to allow people to "vote" on whether a post should stay or go (Queue Clash song). This could be used in a future, proverbial "Politics and Photography" section. I'm also posting my first Poll, in 10 years here I believe.
Let's pretend I have posted several LF shots of beautiful Arctic seascapes and shorelines. But my agenda is to gather support for the plight of fur seals in the Arctic. So I show bludgeons and skinning tools in my shots too. Then I give some statistics about how many seals are killed each year. There, it's kind of political. Imagine my picture below, taken with a 14" Verito:
(LF Pic here)
Important: If you choose, after reading this, vote in the poll above.
goamules
1-Sep-2016, 11:43
My idea is that after a period, the thread goes away, or remains forever. I can set the poll to expire after any number of days. We could select 7 days or 30, for example.
If by simple majority people have voted "it's too political, delete this thread" a moderator clicks his superuser "delete" button. He doesn't have to read or decide anything. The community does. Hey, might be fun anyway.
faberryman
1-Sep-2016, 12:12
Tyranny of the majority?
Peter Lewin
1-Sep-2016, 12:12
Garrett: Most polls permit the voter to explain his or her choice, and I think your hypothetical example underlines what I consider the problem with the approach. I voted to delete the thread. But my objection was not to the images you describe, gory though they may be. I consider them (in my imagination) to be acceptable within the context of documenting, visually, the annual seal hunt. I am free to either skip past the images if I find them upsetting, or to comment on how well they tell a story if I choose to critique them. But when you add the statistics about seal killing, you have gone beyond the photographic into politics or polemics, so I am really voting to delete the statistics, rather than the thread. But you don't give me that option, so I say "delete the thread."
If you wanted to make a more difficult hypothetical case, I can suggest one: let's assume you post a series of technically excellent, 8x10 contact prints of aborted fetuses. I think within the context of abortion as a "hot button" subject, the mere images would be so political that I, personally, would vote to delete the thread even if there was no commentary accompanying the images at all. But of course I cannot predict how others would react. My general rule is "photographic imagery is OK, politically opinionated text is not," but there do exist cases where the imagery itself is so incendiary that my own rule fails. Proves, I guess, that there is no rule which works 100% of the time.
Do we need voter username protection?
goamules
1-Sep-2016, 12:47
Ha! Thanks for participating. I know there are flaws in my approach. What if a Troll adds a hyper-political post to an otherwise ok thread? I guess individual moderation, as it is now. And I agree that photos aren't really that political, the explanatory text usually is. I could show photos of a lot of things, and they would still be open to personal interpretation. Maybe that's the answer, "any picture post is ok, with no words?"
Ha! Thanks for participating. I know there are flaws in my approach. What if a Troll adds a hyper-political post to an otherwise ok thread? I guess individual moderation, as it is now. And I agree that photos aren't really that political, the explanatory text usually is. I could show photos of a lot of things, and they would still be open to personal interpretation. Maybe that's the answer, "any picture post is ok, with no words?"
Remember I tried that with the "Image Only No Words Allowed' thread. The thread died and more than one normal person HAD to comment.
Dan Fromm
1-Sep-2016, 13:05
Garrett, why are you trying to start a pointless wrangle? And why do you want to bring back pointless wrangles?
What I want to know is why would you be using a 14 in. lens? Wouldn't a wider one be better? And, are you shooting color or b&w? And, how difficult is it to haul what has to be a big LF camera around in the Arctic? And, how is this uncoated lens working in a brilliant white landscape--is flare an issue?
Kent in SD
goamules
1-Sep-2016, 17:02
Garrett, why are you trying to start a pointless wrangle? And why do you want to bring back pointless wrangles?
Silly Rabbit, pointless is as pointless does. Wait! Another poll: Should one comment on a thread one doesn't like? Yes, no, maybe so?
Silly Rabbit, pointless is as pointless does. Wait! Another poll: Should one comment on a thread one doesn't like? Yes, no, maybe so?
yes, but only if that person provides the rest of the onlookers with free popcorn to watch the show
Jac@stafford.net
1-Sep-2016, 17:29
Do we need voter username protection?
Indeed! When a friend runs for office the virtue of the secret vote becomes obvious.
Regarding the original post - a silly idea. Let it go.
.
Well, I guess the only thing further I'll add is, if we are going to vote on threads, my vote is for sale. :D First guy offering me free use of his Chamonix 8x10 has me in his corner. (Unless someone ups the ante and throws in a few sheets of film, he he!)
Kent in SD
Jim Michael
1-Sep-2016, 17:59
Rate posts, not threads.
BrianShaw
1-Sep-2016, 18:32
Somewhere in this earth it must be a full moon!
Jac@stafford.net
2-Sep-2016, 06:35
Somewhere in this earth it must be a full moon!
Now that is funny! One of my brothers lives far away on the left coast. When I mentioned the full moon he said, "Cool. Here we see the other side."
What I want to know is why would you be using a 14 in. lens? Wouldn't a wider one be better?
Kent in SD
Not if he wants to capture a bikini-clad Brigitte Bardot protesting the seal hunt.
Seriously, I don't have a problem with the photographer stating up-front that the photograph was made because he's bothered by the cruelty of the seal hunt. My objection would be with others such as myself jumping in and pointing out that seals are the rats of the sea, their population in the St-Lawrence gulf is at or near an all-time high, they're preventing the recovery of the cod stocks, and seal hunt protesting is perhaps a bigger economic boost to the economically depressed region than the seal hunt itself ever was. So if hundreds of people are chartering ships and helicopters and filling hotels to come photograph people clubbing seal cubs, and if the locals don't want the gravy train to stop, they'd better oblige and photogenically club some baby seals....
This sort of hypothetical comment would be highly detrimental to the original thread as it would be guaranteed to derail discussion, start a pie fight, and force closure of the thread.
BrianShaw
2-Sep-2016, 07:05
Yes, Jody, that would have a very undesirable effect on the forum community - not that you'd ever do such a thing either in reality or hypothetically.
stawastawa
2-Sep-2016, 10:08
What wonderful images! how disturbing! It amazes me what humans do, but then I guess we do what needs to be done / what we are accustomed to doing.
PS, what is that thing at lower left, looks like a super high tech cooler, where can i get one, mine for camping always melts the ice too soon... wait do they even need a cooler where they are?
Jody, at least when said hypothetically it is an amusing comment. (And even if said in reality it is a great counter perspective to have, just should not be argued, let people go elsewhere and gather their own facts.)
jeroldharter
2-Sep-2016, 21:34
I don't even know what thread you are talking about. There is too much deleted nowadays do to exquisite sensitivities. This is a private side and the moderators are free to do as they wish. But the rest of us have no business trying to "delete" others. If you want to delete things join the State Department. If you want to censor speech go to college.
I don't even know what thread you are talking about. There is too much deleted nowadays do to exquisite sensitivities. This is a private side and the moderators are free to do as they wish. But the rest of us have no business trying to "delete" others. If you want to delete things join the State Department.
They mostly seem to only delete their own emails.
Kent in SD
stawastawa
3-Sep-2016, 07:44
I don't even know what thread you are talking about. There is too much deleted nowadays do to exquisite sensitivities. This is a private side and the moderators are free to do as they wish. But the rest of us have no business trying to "delete" others. If you want to delete things join the State Department. If you want to censor speech go to college.
what thread we are talking about? this one I am posting in with the pictures of seals of course!
I voted "Keep it", but just as easily could have voted "Delete it". Judging by the number of voters so far (20), I would say this is a non-issue and that we just keep calm, carry on and let the moderators do what they feel is best.
Vaughan, I was waiting to see what happened. But so far, as a tool for providing clarity, I'm not feeling it. :)
Rick "thinking that the further we are from talking about photography, the muddier it gets" Denney
as long as BB is involved i voted to keep it,
anyone else i'd say delete it.
goamules
3-Sep-2016, 18:41
Vaughan, I was waiting to see what happened. But so far, as a tool for providing clarity, I'm not feeling it. :)
Rick "thinking that the further we are from talking about photography, the muddier it gets" Denney
Ha! I guess a humorous post to consider self-deletion is too abstract for you. (Hint: This was just to try the technology. A true experiment would be to do poll for truly political posts, in a yet to be created "Politics and Photography" section.)
I'm glad some of you appreciate humor and good natured experiments. I see at least one moderator doesn't get it. Control....we must all bow to ....the higher control....moderators will take care of you....don't try to think....they are all knowing and all powerful. Sheeze Rick, try to think outside the box and consider someone else's ideas for once.
On the 11th this tongue in cheek experiment is done. I'd delete my own thread, but in this strange world of Moderator Ultimate Domination (MUD), I don't have permissions. (Other forums allow you to edit or delete your posts forever...but not surprisingly, not this one).
Rick, let me get this straight. You have said you think the general forum members cannot, or should not, have any say in what direction a thread goes in? I don't mean the OP, I mean the membership. And if it goes into a direction skirting the rules, you don't think they should have a VOTE in if it has gone too far? Hmmmm.....ok...
goamules
3-Sep-2016, 19:00
I voted "Keep it", but just as easily could have voted "Delete it". Judging by the number of voters so far (20), I would say this is a non-issue and that we just keep calm, carry on and let the moderators do what they feel is best.
I'm fine with that. But I think it's funny how scared people get if you try to take control away. Keep in mind, this was a tongue in cheek poll.
How about another one, based on a thread on Transgender photos and commentary? How about one that photographically shows the decline in American church goers? On the Occupy movement? Or the Tea Party? See? We are back to my stated belief that there should be NO political commentary (photos are ok). But if we MUST, why not let a simple majority decide? I know why. Because people are scared of that.
What I've seen in the past 5 years is the LF forum spends most of it's energy trying to placate complainers and political agendas. The silent majority, I hypothesize, would vote their threads be deleted.
We have two options:
1. Keep politics out of a hobby forum, or
2. Give veto power to a statistically significant number of members, or
3. Let the political beliefs of the forum owner or moderator decide.
Garrett, those are not the only three choices. There is always the choice that moderators set aside their own political beliefs and deal with situations at a higher level, as consistently with neutral principles as they can, and when they depart from that consistency, they endure grossly extended discussion of it with a vast range of untrue claims concerning their motives. If we moderators were prisoners of our feelings and beliefs, I can assure you we would not tolerate that discussion, or make changes as a result of it. But we do.
It seems to me that you are showing, in your last couple of posts, that your claim of humor isn't fully describing your intentions. Even so, I thought my post was humorous, too. You didn't notice that?
Rick "doubting a vote of 7 to 10 meets any statistical test, and doubting that following, tracking, and managing such polls wouldn't become a statistically significant burden" Denney
goamules
3-Sep-2016, 20:11
My intentions were to give the members of this forum more say, with the options I described in the other thread. http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?133039-Photography-and-Politics&p=1349039&viewfull=1#post1349039 You poo-poo'd it there too, so I set up an example, here. What are your intentions constantly debating why that won't work, or will be hard, or it's somehow a bad idea? Why did you step into this thread with your dismissive post? It's very clear that to you, a moderator's supervision is MUCH more important than enabling the general membership. You say everything would be "too much work", but can't acknowledge my options would give you less work. But less power, and there is the difference.
But I'm done with all this, and with my silly idea. Your side of the debate is just kind of typical from people that volunteer for jobs that control people. You know better, and will let people know when you are ready, what new rules they will comply with. Not very encompassing, at all. We await your great new plan.....
I'm fine with that. But I think it's funny how scared people get if you try to take control away. Keep in mind, this was a tongue in cheek poll...
Or how upset people get when they get fingers (as opposed to a finger) waved at them! (such as getting their post deleted for obvious rule violations). BTDT :cool:
goamules
14-Sep-2016, 14:34
Survey says: ....Keep this thread up, the active members * have decided. The experiment in moderation by democracy was a stunning success. Naysayers are all hanging their heads in shame, and heading to the bars.
* Lesson learned? For every 50 or 100 members here, you have 1 or 2 that actually are active. Those that post more than just items to sell I mean.
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