Help needed on developing sharp negatives for carbon printing

[Max Hao]

Hi all,

I know there might be plenty of discussions on this topic. I am using semi-stand development for all negatives 810 and smaller. But don't have a big enough tray for developing 11x14 film, and I don't have a dark room. Is there a way I could get the same sharp film using Rotary development?

Many thanks.

Cheers,

Max

[interneg]

This is a perennial question - the simple answer is yes, especially if you are contact printing in carbon transfer. Semi-stand has its uses as a means of contrast control, but in general it's an extended technique, not a regular one. There's a huge amount of noise & not a lot of light on the question of whether continuous agitation makes a difference to sharpness & to be honest I've never seen sufficient evidence/ well controlled studies to make any judgement either way. Rotary processing in a Jobo or similar is very, very consistent & makes life much easier, especially if you are processing a lot of film on a regular basis - at least in my experience.

[diversey]

A simple rotary developing for 11x14 films is to use a uniroller with a 11x14 print drum.

[Jac@stafford.net]

++1 for what interneg wrote.

[Vaughn]

IMO, development method will not significantly alter the sharpness that you will see in a carbon print.. And especially when other factors have a far more significant affect on sharpness (camera/shutter vibration and film flatness).

The other significant factor is UV light source. A set of UV flourescent bulbs will not produce as sharp of a carbon print as a single merc vapor lamp or other high intensity UV bulb. This is due to the diffused light of the flourescent bulbs and the relatively thick emulsion of the carbon tissue. However, if the viewing distance is far enough, even the difference between the two may not be significant to an individual carbon printer.

[bob carnie]

IMO, development method will not significantly alter the sharpness that you will see in a carbon print.. And especially when other factors have a far more significant affect on sharpness (camera/shutter vibration and film flatness).

The other significant factor is UV light source. A set of UV flourescent bulbs will not produce as sharp of a carbon print as a single merc vapor lamp or other high intensity UV bulb. This is due to the diffused light of the flourescent bulbs and the relatively thick emulsion of the carbon tissue. However, if the viewing distance is far enough, even the difference between the two may not be significant to an individual carbon printer.

Vaughn interesting point, would you say this difference would hold true for a pt pd print or gum as well?

[Bob Salomon]

Let's get some terminology straight.
Sharpness is going to be controlled by your lens, used within the optimal aperture range and magnification range.
The camera's focus is also critical to sharpness. The film must lie flat within the depth of focus of your lens. In other words, the film has to be flatly held at the film plane and the film plane must be properly positioned in the camera.
Maximum sharpness will also require proper exposure.
Film development can not control sharpness or density. Only exposure can control density. Development controls contrast (as does the lighting ratio) but, if you over develop to increase contrast you will also increase grain size. So, as a general rule, if you don't want added grain size, keep the film wet time as short as possible.

How you process can also have an effect, you don't want to over or under agitate as that will effect contrast.

[koraks]

Since he mentions semistand development as his preferred approach, maybe Max's question refers (also) to edge effects.

[Vaughn]

Vaughn interesting point, would you say this difference would hold true for a pt pd print or gum as well?
I have not seen significant difference in sharpness in Pt/pd when using a bank of florescents or my merc vapor lamp. No emulsion with pt/pd, so no extra thickness for the light to scatter within the sensitized coating.

[Jac@stafford.net]

Since he mentions semistand development as his preferred approach, maybe Max's question refers (also) to edge effects.

Gawd help me, but I've never been able to get edge effect through development. How am I missing it?

[koraks]

I don't know and I haven't seen this either, but I've never looked for it. I'm only suggesting what may be a reason for asking the initial question.

[Jac@stafford.net]

[...]How you process can also have an effect, you don't want to over or under agitate as that will effect contrast.

I sweated agitation angst for forty years with trays, reels, and Combi-Tank tank before I tried roller drum processing which is constant agitation. I am so very happy with roller drum processing now and will not turn back. Everything is consistent now.

Koraks, I appreciate you bringing up the subject. Thanks for that.

[Hugo Zhang]

Max,

If you don't have a darkroom and want to do semi-stand for your 11x14 negatives, go and get a Jobo 2840 drum and remember to fill the solution all the way to the top.

Hugo

[interneg]

Gawd help me, but I've never been able to get edge effect through development. How am I missing it?

The only times I've seen it really clearly were from registered masks that went wrong. Looked like bad (all?) HDR

[Max Hao]

Thank you guys for your thoughts/contribution. I have to apologize as what I was trying to get is edge effects. I did a comparison between constant agitation using a Paterson Orbital and semi-stand development in the same tray but with reduced agitation. The negative with reduced agitation was significantly sharper (or had better edge effects). This showed also in the carbon print, but only when viewed in close distance. Semi-stand development can be done with the robital tray with just less than 600ml solution to keep the negative from floating during development, but a rotary drum will require about 4 litres of solution for an 11x14.

[esearing]

If you have a tube that holds 11x14 you could also fill it up and do stand development, if you do not like the rotary development effects. The volume of developer needed should do several sheets.