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Olli
25-Aug-2016, 13:32
A while ago I noticed the Italian Gibellini Projects & Co and their LF cameras. I'm considering to get the 4x5" ACN45. I know they are quite new and there might not be too many out there. But, I would appreciate if there are any users in the forum who could tell about their practical experiences about these cameras.

Any comments are wellcome.

Thanks,
Olli

Ari
25-Aug-2016, 13:52
I have the 8x10 and I've been meaning to write a decent review, but I haven't had the time.
If you can afford it, it's a very good camera; it has its quirks, like every other camera does, but it's solid and well-built.
Customer service, unfortunately, is at hipster-level of indifference.

pierre506
25-Aug-2016, 14:59
Don't believe any new-made LF gear~

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Sal Santamaura
25-Aug-2016, 15:54
Don't believe any new-made LF gear...Please explain further. I can make no sense of this post in context of the thread topic.

vinny
25-Aug-2016, 18:46
Customer service, unfortunately, is at hipster-level of indifference.

That's a funny way to put it.
Care to elaborate?

Ari
25-Aug-2016, 20:09
That's a funny way to put it.
Care to elaborate?

I'll elaborate even more, in a review.
Briefly, while I was eventually pleased with the camera, the level of support along the way was something I had to force in order to happen.
Had I not pushed for better service, I would now have a semi-functioning, poorly-assembled camera with a severe vignetting problem.
Problems were eventually solved, but it was like pulling teeth to get a basic level of work done.
So I'm of two minds: the camera is very solid and steady, which is crucial, but if I had to buy it again new, I wouldn't; I'd just get a Canham, Toyo, etc. next time.

Kevin Crisp
26-Aug-2016, 08:44
Hipster customer service = "uh, whatever" or "we make it that way because, like, you know...." or "uh, sorry" or "hey dude oh yeah I remember you," etc.

These observations are based on many other recent experiences with hipsters, not on this particular manufacturer.

DrTang
26-Aug-2016, 09:31
I like their bag a lot

I mean it looks nice..I can't afford it

Luis-F-S
26-Aug-2016, 10:22
......... but if I had to buy it again new, I wouldn't; I'd just get a Canham, Toyo, etc. next time.

At least Keith Canham takes care of his customers........L

pierre506
3-Sep-2016, 15:55
Please explain further. I can make no sense of this post in context of the thread topic.
I made the conclusion for everything by myself, including the LF gears.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160903/ec110aebc253d905028f5b12a8e8ac7e.jpg

A friend of mine bought a brand new G. He is a senior photographer, and wanted to try lots of 8x10 cameras. He experienced Sinar, Arca, Deardorff, Toyo, Linhof, etc.
The G was belonged to him before.

"Rubbish warcraft", he called the G 8x10. "A real lemon", he added again.

1. Rear group
The springs of holder fixing weren't fixed. So, the rear group is easy to drop down when changing holder if you pushed a strength a little more.
2. The central focusing system couldn't be fixed because its sliding focusing tolerance was too much. The damping was relied on the front screw(s). But the screw(s) incredible didn't fix. So the screw(s) would drop regularly.

3. Rubbish bellows

4. Rubbish ground glass
My friend couldn't find the exact word to describe the GG.

5. It couldn't bear any little heavier lenses. It moved everywhere, and shaked.

He lost any interesting to try one film to use the G 8x10 after unfolding it onto his tripod. He immediately threw it away to trade a Sony RX1R.

He lost a sum of bulks and his nose out of joint .



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Corran
3-Sep-2016, 17:08
Interesting summary. The weight of the Gibellini cameras interested me - the price did not. I can't find it on their website but I thought one of their 4x5 cameras was even lighter than a Chamonix, but perhaps I am mis-remembering. I'll be interested to hear what others users think - Ari seems to think the camera was pretty solid. Different models?

blue4130
3-Sep-2016, 19:36
The differences could be from the fact that he seems to be making revisions on what seems like a monthly basis. Looking at his cameras from the beginning to now show many design changes. To me it looks like he is using his customers as beta testers, which is unfortunate. Just not a mature enough product in my mind.

Tin Can
3-Sep-2016, 20:53
The differences could be from the fact that he seems to be making revisions on what seems like a monthly basis. Looking at his cameras from the beginning to now show many design changes. To me it looks like he is using his customers as beta testers, which is unfortunate. Just not a mature enough product in my mind.

You do know that's how Ferrari started making cars? Each one better than the last.

And every new owner signed a legal document promising to race the car or Ferrari would take it back. Not buy it back...

Italians think differently, go visit.

I love their food, Art and motorbikes. Perfectly flawed.

Sal Santamaura
3-Sep-2016, 21:01
Don't believe any new-made LF gear~

通过我的 VIE-AL10 上的 Tapatalk发言


Please explain further. I can make no sense of this post in context of the thread topic.


I made the conclusion for everything by myself, including the LF gears....A friend of mine bought a brand new G. He is a senior photographer, and wanted to try lots of 8x10 cameras. He experienced Sinar, Arca, Deardorff, Toyo, Linhof, etc.
The G was belonged to him before.

"Rubbish warcraft", he called the G 8x10. "A real lemon", he added again.

1. Rear group
The springs of holder fixing weren't fixed. So, the rear group is easy to drop down when changing holder if you pushed a strength a little more.
2. The central focusing system couldn't be fixed because its sliding focusing tolerance was too much. The damping was relied on the front screw(s). But the screw(s) incredible didn't fix. So the screw(s) would drop regularly.

3. Rubbish bellows

4. Rubbish ground glass
My friend couldn't find the exact word to describe the GG.

5. It couldn't bear any little heavier lenses. It moved everywhere, and shaked.

He lost any interesting to try one film to use the G 8x10 after unfolding it onto his tripod. He immediately threw it away to trade a Sony RX1R.

He lost a sum of bulks and his nose out of joint .



通过我的 VIE-AL10 上的 Tapatalk发言Thanks for following up. I still can't make sense of your first post, but the second one got your point across: it's junk. :)

Corran
3-Sep-2016, 21:03
That's certainly an interesting perspective. I certainly didn't know that, but I'm not a car guy.

Luxury products can certainly operate under a different paradigm (see: Leica). Whether or not Gibellini's cameras are luxury items or high-quality tools is my question.

Tin Can
3-Sep-2016, 21:40
I do know this thread has destroyed Ari's sale and a fledgling maker.

This thread should have been stopped or FS ads should allow this maiming.

I consider this thread one of the more violent tests of our parameters.

Careful with what we reap.

All fall down...


That's certainly an interesting perspective. I certainly didn't know that, but I'm not a car guy.

Luxury products can certainly operate under a different paradigm (see: Leica). Whether or not Gibellini's cameras are luxury items or high-quality tools is my question.

Corran
3-Sep-2016, 21:57
You may be right, especially when people start throwing around the word "junk" when they haven't actually used the camera in question.

I am genuinely curious about these cameras, even if I probably won't/wouldn't buy one. There seems to be many happy users gauging from his Facebook posts.

pierre506
3-Sep-2016, 23:09
I have to say sorry to Ari. He is a very good member here.
I used to try to reply the thread much earlier. But I found Ari's selling thread then. I stopped typing although I'd already finished half of his comments then, too .
After several days consideration, I still replied with my friend's comments. I knew his reply was too aggressive. But I believed him because he was a experienced guy. Then there would(should) be to much argument here.
Sorry, guys.
However, I had not changed any single word of his comments.
I still insist that a new 8x10 camera should not have so many weaknesses if its value was over USD 4000~

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Steven Tribe
4-Sep-2016, 01:33
You must remember that Ari opened his "bag of worms" here before he decided to list in the FS section. He described an interesting camera with completion problems and supplier indifference. Which matches with the more specific problems reported by Pierre.

Ari
4-Sep-2016, 05:30
I appreciate the comments, and although I probably did hurt my sale by being up front about my problems with Gibellini the company, I'd rather be honest about everything. After all, buying a new camera is a multi-faceted experience, it's not just about the camera itself. But I have no complaints about the product itself.

Let me re-iterate: the Gibellini is an excellent, well-made, even over-built camera.
It's very solid, even at full extension, camera shake is something I've not experienced yet. Movements are not geared but they work smoothly thanks to a nice design using Teflon ball bearings.
Focusing is very good, no lock needed even when the camera is tilted. Film plane registration is exact and perfect.
The GG is plexi, a little too coarse a grind for my taste, but provides a good aerial image.
The camera is a middleweight at just under 5kg, and when folded, is only about 4" thick, but it's roughly 16"x16" large, so it takes up more room in a case.
Working with it is a pleasure and I think it could handle any lens under 2kg with aplomb.
My heaviest lens weighs just shy of 1kg, and it's a breeze for the Gibellini.

What happened with me might be unique, atypical of the Gibellini buying experience; simply put, it took a long time for Gibellini to make things right.
I'm not sure if that was because I live on another continent, or if I was merely unlucky, but when the camera first arrived in April, it was not worthy of the $5500 price tag.
After a few months of waiting, all problems were corrected satisfactorily, and my camera is perfect, but the hand-wringing, the unnecessary wait times, put me off the company.
I believe their intentions are good, and they are indeed making excellent cameras, but they need to tighten up their business/supply/repair side, especially at the prices they're asking.
It's not enough of a reward to simply own the Gibellini, problems must be addressed in a timely manner, and this was the source of my frustration.
What makes the story even odder is that I had thought of representing them as Canadian distributor, so you'd think that they would work a little harder to impress me.
Good on them for being consistent, at least. :)

So, whoever buys my camera will get a top-notch, modern 8x10 field camera, designed to very high specs and it will probably turn out to be an exotic workhorse.
I've done all the heavy lifting, went through all the toil and trouble, now the camera is really a gem.
I just don't want it staring at me every day, reminding me of the stress I had to go through to get a working camera.

Maybe the best thing is to buy a used, guaranteed-working camera, minimizing the need to deal with the factory.
And maybe others' experiences are completely different from mine.

But, wrt Pierre's friend, no the Gibellini is most definitely not rubbish.

Sal Santamaura
4-Sep-2016, 08:19
I made the conclusion for everything by myself, including the LF gears...A friend of mine bought a brand new G. He is a senior photographer, and wanted to try lots of 8x10 cameras. He experienced Sinar, Arca, Deardorff, Toyo, Linhof, etc.
The G was belonged to him before.

"Rubbish warcraft", he called the G 8x10. "A real lemon", he added again.

1. Rear group
The springs of holder fixing weren't fixed. So, the rear group is easy to drop down when changing holder if you pushed a strength a little more.
2. The central focusing system couldn't be fixed because its sliding focusing tolerance was too much. The damping was relied on the front screw(s). But the screw(s) incredible didn't fix. So the screw(s) would drop regularly.

3. Rubbish bellows

4. Rubbish ground glass
My friend couldn't find the exact word to describe the GG.

5. It couldn't bear any little heavier lenses. It moved everywhere, and shaked.

He lost any interesting to try one film to use the G 8x10 after unfolding it onto his tripod. He immediately threw it away to trade a Sony RX1R.

He lost a sum of bulks and his nose out of joint...


Thanks for following up. I still can't make sense of your first post, but the second one got your point across: it's junk. :)


...people start throwing around the word "junk" when they haven't actually used the camera in question...I assume "people" referred to me. That one-word descriptor seems an appropriate summary of pierre's post. I don't use words lightly, and stand by my characterization.

Ari's camera might be completely different than the one pierre was describing. That has no bearing on the description's applicability.

Ari
4-Sep-2016, 08:31
They might call something junk only because it's a new product, one without a pedigree. Or they might simply be Leicaphiles.
Either way, it's not a healthy attitude for oneself or for the market.
We're very lucky that cameras of this kind are still being made; the fact that a company is willing to try new designs and materials is commendable.

Bear in mind that the owner of Gibellini is 26 years old, with a background in industrial design, not photography.
Before buying the camera, I didn't read any reviews or testimonials, I looked at what was being done, was sufficiently impressed, and thought that it deserved a chance.
The customer service is a whole other thing, but I'll happily defend the camera's build quality and design.

pierre506
4-Sep-2016, 11:52
They might call something junk only because it's a new product, one without a pedigree. Or they might simply be Leicaphiles.
Either way, it's not a healthy attitude for oneself or for the market.
We're very lucky that cameras of this kind are still being made; the fact that a company is willing to try new designs and materials is commendable.

Bear in mind that the owner of Gibellini is 26 years old, with a background in industrial design, not photography.
Before buying the camera, I didn't read any reviews or testimonials, I looked at what was being done, was sufficiently impressed, and thought that it deserved a chance.
The customer service is a whole other thing, but I'll happily defend the camera's build quality and design.


Dear Ari,
Your information conforms to my principle:
Don't believe any new-made LF gear~

The precent new Gibellini LF cameras are good for showing, not good for using so far. But Gibellini would be a good LF camera in the future if the owner could accept the costumers responses and suggestions, then perfected Gibellinis later. The owner is young and good at industrial design. It's the advantage of Gibellini. But its weakness is obviously, because he is without photographic background. It's a new product.
Rome was not built in a day.
Chamonix, I associate with this famous brand. Nowadays, almost everybody admits it's a well-made & practical tool. Its owner, Hass, has a senior photographic background. He had practised the cameras, his products, almost all kinds of climate and environment by himself. He absorbed his costumers responses same time. He had try to perfect his babies step by step. Then, Chamonix had been getting better and better over 10 years. Hass must cost a lot and gain a lot, too.

I hope the owner of Gebellini could see this thread by himself.
I hope he could treat this thread as a mirror and an encouragement, not as a crisis.
I hope he could gain from the Chamonix story.
I hope LF users could still have more options in the future.
Ansco(dead), Arca(LF dead), Burke & James(dead), Canham, Calumet(dead), Cambo( LF dead), Chamonix, Deardorff(dead), Ebony(dying?), Fotoman, Frica, Gandoff(dead), Gebellini, Gowland(dead), Graflex(dead), Seagull(dead), Horseman(dead), Kodak(dead), Linhof(LF dead), Lotus, Phillips(dead), Ritter, Shenhao, Sinar (dead?), Tachihara(dead), Toyo(dead), Wilderness, Wisnar(dead), Wista(dead), Zone VI(dead)...




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Ari
4-Sep-2016, 12:18
Don't believe any new-made LF gear~

Pierre, I must strongly and respectfully disagree with this.

What I said conforms to nothing except two things:
1. I think the Gibellini is an excellent camera, better than a Canham in many respects, as solid as a Toyo 810M, and as pretty as an Arca
2. I had a bad experience

As for not believing any new LF gear, I wonder if Canham or Chamonix would agree with you; where would they be without their early supporters and customers?
How else will LF users be able to have more options in the future?

Every company makes mistakes, it's how one deals with mistakes that will set one apart from other companies.
I don't know if Gibellini will learn from anything here; as I said, it may be that I'm the one unlucky customer, but you're right, companies should be listening to customers rather than dictating to them.

End result for me is I finally have a camera that works very well, is precise and solid, and I enjoy using it, quirky as it is.
But it's been too frustrating an experience for me to stay with Gibellini.
I do hope others can still take a chance on them, and not have similarly negative buying experiences, because the cameras are certainly deserving of another look.

Lachlan 717
4-Sep-2016, 13:14
And this is why hearsay is inadmissible in most criminal legal systems...

The whole issue around the cameras' quality is based on Babel-translated "I've got a friend" testimony.

Surly, as a collective, we're better than that...

pierre506
4-Sep-2016, 19:05
And this is why hearsay is inadmissible in most criminal legal systems...

The whole issue around the cameras' quality is based on Babel-translated "I've got a friend" testimony.

Surly, as a collective, we're better than that...

"As a collective ", which level?
Precent Gibellini's appearance?
Precent Gibellini's functions?
Precent Gibellini's price?
...
Which feature(s) had touched you to say "Surely, as a collective" ?


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Lachlan 717
4-Sep-2016, 19:10
The part where you have, through some secondhand, untestable opinion, potentially ruined a person's business and potentially ruined Ari's sale.

Is that clear enough?

Ari
4-Sep-2016, 19:19
Pierre, unless I gravely misunderstood something here, your friend, and not you, bought a Gibellini and decided it was "rubbish" and "a real lemon".
You posted his opinion here, which Sal then repeated.
Neither counts as "experience".
The OP asked for anyone's direct experience with the camera, not the summary opinions of an anonymous third party.

I'll repeat: based on my direct use of the camera, I think it's top-shelf stuff, an excellent design and excellent use of materials.
I have a few minor quibbles with some features, as I have with every other camera I've ever owned.
My problem rests with late delivery times, long-unkept promises (fulfilled, but by then too late for me), and what I perceive to be shaky customer service.
People should know that in buying a new Gibellini, they'll be relying on the same people I spoke of in my own experiences, but they'll also be getting a very fine camera.
Your mileage may vary.

Ari
4-Sep-2016, 19:25
The part where you have, through some secondhand, untestable opinion, potentially ruined a person's business and potentially ruined Ari's sale.



I'm not worried about the sale, and I opened this can of worms anyway, Lachlan.
I do get tired of hearing "If it isn't a (insert brand name here), it's garbage."
Or, if you call something rubbish, please explain why; otherwise it's scurrilous posting and irresponsible behaviour.

I never thought the internet would be such a hotbed of rumour and hearsay. :)

pierre506
4-Sep-2016, 20:19
The part where you have, through some secondhand, untestable opinion, potentially ruined a person's business and potentially ruined Ari's sale.

Is that clear enough?

It's not a 2nd-handed camera.
He bought a brand new one.

Yes, I reported his( one of original Gibellini buyers) feeling.
Did that hurt you?
How could a product(1st generation camera) be improved in the future if the manufacturer couldn't accept the discussion about its weaknesses?

I'd prefer to choose to ruin such kind of business than to shut up.


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pierre506
4-Sep-2016, 20:36
I'm not worried about the sale, and I opened this can of worms anyway, Lachlan.
I do get tired of hearing "If it isn't a (insert brand name here), it's garbage."
Or, if you call something rubbish, please explain why; otherwise it's scurrilous posting and irresponsible behaviour.

I never thought the internet would be such a hotbed of rumour and hearsay. :)
Dear Ari,
He will ask to take back the camera recently.
Then he will explain his opinions here by himself with the detailed pictures.

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Oren Grad
4-Sep-2016, 20:56
Then he will explain his opinions here by himself with the detailed pictures.

pierre506, that would be a big help.

Ari, thanks for sharing your experience thoughtfully, especially given your disappointment.

Let's see if we can maximize the light and minimize the heat here.

Ari
4-Sep-2016, 21:12
It's not a 2nd-handed camera.
He bought a brand new one.

Yes, I reported his( one of original Gibellini buyers) feeling.
Did that hurt you?
How could a product(1st generation camera) be improved in the future if the manufacturer couldn't accept the discussion about its weaknesses?

I'd prefer to choose to ruin such kind of business than to shut up.


通过我的 VIE-AL10 上的 Tapatalk发言
Pierre, your friend bought the first-generation; I bought the latest generation, the N series.
There have been at least two generations in between.
There were big strides made in design, features and materials in order to successfully manufacture the N series; images of the older versions can be found online.
Your rhetorical question about the manufacturer improving the camera is thus moot.

Also, I'm not sure why you'd choose to spend your time muckraking a company whose product you didn't buy and with whom you have no direct connexion.

Ari
4-Sep-2016, 21:31
pierre506, that would be a big help.

Ari, thanks for sharing your experience thoughtfully, especially given your disappointment.

Let's see if we can maximize the light and minimize the heat here.
Agreed; thanks, Oren.

alon96
5-Sep-2016, 06:16
I am the guy whom pierre506 mentioned before.

First of all, what pierre506 addressed here was what I wanted to express.

I bought Gibellini AA-D810 camera on August, 2015.
I was really overjoyed when I opened the suitcase.
The luxury camera was covered by a beatiful Stars & Stripes flag.
However, the reality was so cruel.
The camera had an exciting shape.
I was so disappointed after I loaded it onto a tripod and tried to use it.
Frankly speaking,the camera was more than an adult integrated toy, but not intented to focus on practical.

1. The front group accepted Sinar lens boards, but its standard was low. Its supporters were weak. The front group needed to be cut off a little if you wanted to put the old Sinar lens board.
2. The focusing damping was under the front group without fixing. It dropped at the very first time. You had to cry to back home if you lost it outside.
3. The fixing of focusing rail was ridiculous. Two nylon spacers as the dampings were inside of two holes under the front group. They were lacking of stability and robustnes. You had to go home earlier to have a cup of coffee if you lost them outside.
4. The bellows was too hard. Its material was not proper.
5. The groud glass was rough. It should be much better on a camera over USD 4000.
6. The rear group wasn't fixed. It just relied on the springs' supporting. let my imagination run riot. The rear group was very easy to fall down if putting a force on it. You had to go home to have a cup of coffee again if carelessness.
7. The two sliding focusing rails hadn't been fixed well. The tail of the rails would tilt up when using longer than 300mm lens, as an intereting seesaw. It's the same ridiculous designing.
8. I was sure that the designer manufactured the camera very seriously. However, I was more sure that he didn't know every aspect of photography.
I recalled that I had tried to shoot it same lens and same thing compared with Linhof Kardan 8x10. I found that the Gibellini's lacked of sharpness.
I wish the designer will make a beautiful and classic camera in the future. But at least, it isn't now absolutely.

P.S.
I had compared the new Gebellini N810's pictures on eBay.
It seems that the camera have not be changed too much. But the weak-minded dampings were changed.
But its price is much higher than mine.

Ari
5-Sep-2016, 06:29
Interesting, thanks for posting; that was hardly my own experience.
My camera was pretty good upon arrival, but it must have slipped through the quality control check before leaving the factory.
I had improperly-folded bellows which intruded into the image; the front movements were rough and the Technika adapter I ordered was missing.
All of it was taken care of eventually, it took a lot of patience on my part, but the camera is now perfect.
Also, my camera, regardless of the issues I mentioned above, has always been very solid and stable, no issues at all with the build from day one.

aflc
5-Sep-2016, 06:49
This thread couldn't have been more timely. I was thinking of visiting G's workshop next month and perhaps spending some hard earned money on one of his cameras.
I will look elsewhere.
Thanks for taking the time to detail your experiences.

Ari
5-Sep-2016, 07:44
This thread couldn't have been more timely. I was thinking of visiting G's workshop next month and perhaps spending some hard earned money on one of his cameras.
I will look elsewhere.
Thanks for taking the time to detail your experiences.

That's a shame; I never meant to disparage the cameras, they're wonderful.
My only beef is with the slow, inadequate customer service I received. In the end, it was all resolved to my satisfaction, but I stepped away from distributing their cameras in Canada.
The Gibellini is not cheaply-made, and I think the price is not excessive for what you're getting; the Ferrari comparison above is an apt one.
It's the best field camera I've used.
As I said, they're definitely worth consideration, so if you're in Modena, you should visit the factory; you may be pleasantly surprised.

aflc
5-Sep-2016, 07:55
I hate to waste someone's time. Or my own :) I'm not in Modena. I live in Portugal. Going to Modena would mean using vacation time to meet someone and look at his cameras which might not be of the exact model I'd end up ordering. It might also mean leaving a deposit for an expensive camera and trusting him to deliver. Your experience does not leave me at ease.

Ari
5-Sep-2016, 07:59
Fair enough. I'd assumed you were already traveling to the region for other reasons.

Sal Santamaura
5-Sep-2016, 08:27
Pierre...You posted his opinion here, which Sal then repeated.
Neither counts as "experience"...Please understand my posts in this thread, which can be summarized as follows:


Pierre is clearly not facile with the English language. Unable to grasp what his first post was trying to communicate, I asked that he explain further.
He quoted my request in his post #10, then went on to type five 'points' that were also in broken English.
In post #14, I used a two-word phrase to summarize what he wrote in post #10.

The entirety of my participation has been intended to bridge the language gap. I neither claimed "experience" nor 'repeated' (as in 'made the same claim') Pierre's negative characterization of his friend's camera.

Lesson learned: in the future, let English as a Second Language (ESL) members flail. Don't get involved.

pierre506
5-Sep-2016, 15:14
Please understand my posts in this thread, which can be summarized as follows:


Pierre is clearly not facile with the English language. Unable to grasp what his first post was trying to communicate, I asked that he explain further.
He quoted my request in his post #10, then went on to type five 'points' that were also in broken English.
In post #14, I used a two-word phrase to summarize what he wrote in post #10.

The entirety of my participation has been intended to bridge the language gap. I neither claimed "experience" nor 'repeated' (as in 'made the same claim') Pierre's negative characterization of his friend's camera.

Lesson learned: in the future, let English as a Second Language (ESL) members flail. Don't get involved.


[emoji3] [emoji3] [emoji3] [emoji1] [emoji1] [emoji1]

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Steven Tribe
6-Sep-2016, 01:08
I personally find it enormously refreshing that someone who completely understandable problems with written English is brave enough to make (Interesting) contributions here!

I have never had any problems with finding the essential gist in Pierre's contributions.

Now I have had 5 years of French and 4 years of German at school, but I never dare to attempt to correspond to sellers in French or German on ebay. I could say that it is because I can't find the appropriate vowel accents on my I pad, but that be just a convenient excuse!

errantowl
6-Sep-2016, 16:49
I want to take the opportunity to comment on a posting in this thread that listed past and present manufacturers of large format cameras, some of which were, as far as I know, incorrectly labeled as "dead". I feel that accurate information should be available for anyone researching camera options.

Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Linhof, Toyo, and Wista all still manufacture multiple models of large format cameras. Also not included on that list are Argentum, VDS, and Svedovsky, and likely some others with which I am not familiar. Chamonix, Gibellini, K.B. Canham, Lotus, and Shenhao were correctly included on the list as active.

djdister
6-Sep-2016, 17:59
I want to take the opportunity to comment on a posting in this thread that listed past and present manufacturers of large format cameras, some of which were, as far as I know, incorrectly labeled as "dead". I feel that accurate information should be available for anyone researching camera options.

Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Linhof, Toyo, and Wista all still manufacture multiple models of large format cameras. Also not included on that list are Argentum, VDS, and Svedovsky, and likely some others with which I am not familiar. Chamonix, Gibellini, K.B. Canham, Lotus, and Shenhao were correctly included on the list as active.

You forgot the Walker Titan XL series are still available from Mike Walker...

pierre506
6-Sep-2016, 18:16
I want to take the opportunity to comment on a posting in this thread that listed past and present manufacturers of large format cameras, some of which were, as far as I know, incorrectly labeled as "dead". I feel that accurate information should be available for anyone researching camera options.

Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Linhof, Toyo, and Wista all still manufacture multiple models of large format cameras. Also not included on that list are Argentum, VDS, and Svedovsky, and likely some others with which I am not familiar. Chamonix, Gibellini, K.B. Canham, Lotus, and Shenhao were correctly included on the list as active.
Nope.
I believe my definitions of them were almost accurate because I meant LF.
The brands you mentioned still manufacture
multiple models of cameras, not multiple models of large format cameras.
Please check my thread again, and correct your ideas about the definition of Large Format.

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pierre506
6-Sep-2016, 18:17
You forgot the Walker Titan XL series are still available from Mike Walker...
Yes, so I had used ... at the end because there were and are too many other brands I didn't mention.
Goerz, ... I lost the interesting to list all of them then because it's a really hard work but I hoped someone could fulfill the list.

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errantowl
6-Sep-2016, 20:41
Nope.
I believe my definitions of them were almost accurate because I meant LF.
The brands you mentioned still manufacture
multiple models of cameras, not multiple models of large format cameras.
Please check my thread again, and correct your ideas about the definition of Large Format.

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Arca-Swiss manufactures 4x5in, 5x7in, 8x10in, and 11x14in. Cambo manufactures 4x5in, Linhof manufactures 4x5in, Toyo manufactures 4x5in and 8x10in, and Wista manufactures 4x5in and 8x10in.

Thierry Schreiner
8-Sep-2016, 01:04
Honestly,


Would I invest thousands of bucks into a LF camera that is made by a guy with no photographic experience, and who out of the blue decides to build a whole line of large format cameras, right up to 16x20 ?


No way.



Do I believe in fairy tales ?

Guess what.


Best regards

Ari
8-Sep-2016, 04:40
Silliness; the kid knows more about designing and building view cameras than most of us here, and he's doing a damn good job of it.
This is turning into a bit of a witch hunt; I only wanted to point out that while his cameras are excellent, his delivery/repair times must get better, especially for North American customers.
Also I had a personal deal with him that fell through for those reasons.
I'll post a video soon, both to help the OP, and to show that these cameras are real workhorses.

Thierry Schreiner
8-Sep-2016, 05:13
No need to become obnoxious, Ari.

Did not mean to offend You or the Kid.

Ari
8-Sep-2016, 06:01
Thierry, no offence taken, and I did not mean to come across as obnoxious.
I just think it's silly to discount a new camera maker because his background isn't purely photographic (mine isn't either, same goes for many of us here); he's young and will learn from his mistakes, as we all did.
What he's making now is quite remarkable, and as I said earlier, the flaws of the camera are minor; I have the same minor complaints about every camera I've ever used.
We don't have a lot of options for high-end, new, cameras, so the manufacturers should be encouraged when possible; if they slip up, they should be guided, not maligned, especially when they're aiming for top-of-the-line/state-of-the-art, as Gibellini appears to be doing.

massimo vitali
8-Sep-2016, 09:11
Hi guys I am always really shocked by the useless verbal violence that forums and posts on the web acquire almost as a second nature.So much for the "I'd prefer to choose to ruin such kind of business than to shut up."
I have a Gibellini 11x14 with 10x8 reducing back made for me,I have tested the camera with 14 sheets of film on a summer shoot and I am totally happy with the results.At this moment I am getting a few details changed, Since I use the camera for taking pictures and I have used LF for the last 22 years I have enough technical experience to be able to know what I want and to be able to communicate with Gibellini.Of course if you live thousand miles away could be more complicate but I am sure that any problem can be solved even at distance.So the idea is that unlike most camera makers that give you a mediocre product off the shelf wit G you can put your face in the camera.
This obviously requires knowledge and patience. I have been very patient with Phillips that had the Explorer II ground glass off by 4/10 of a mm and the man had disappeared in the desert...so patience should go both ways across the atlantic.Yes sometime things are slow with Gibellini but he is making a camera in a different way and I am proud to participate in a new contemporary way of building obsolete cameras.He may eventually make a special model to my name with all the changes that I have been thinking of.
The idea is to be always positive and not destructive,may be this is why I take pictures every day,I sell pictures every day,I talk about photography every day and "I prefer to help such kind of business than to shut up"

pierre506
8-Sep-2016, 15:47
Hi guys I am always really shocked by the useless verbal violence that forums and posts on the web acquire almost as a second nature.So much for the "I'd prefer to choose to ruin such kind of business than to shut up."
I have a Gibellini 11x14 with 10x8 reducing back made for me,I have tested the camera with 14 sheets of film on a summer shoot and I am totally happy with the results.At this moment I am getting a few details changed, Since I use the camera for taking pictures and I have used LF for the last 22 years I have enough technical experience to be able to know what I want and to be able to communicate with Gibellini.Of course if you live thousand miles away could be more complicate but I am sure that any problem can be solved even at distance.So the idea is that unlike most camera makers that give you a mediocre product off the shelf wit G you can put your face in the camera.
This obviously requires knowledge and patience. I have been very patient with Phillips that had the Explorer II ground glass off by 4/10 of a mm and the man had disappeared in the desert...so patience should go both ways across the atlantic.Yes sometime things are slow with Gibellini but he is making a camera in a different way and I am proud to participate in a new contemporary way of building obsolete cameras.He may eventually make a special model to my name with all the changes that I have been thinking of.
The idea is to be always positive and not destructive,may be this is why I take pictures every day,I sell pictures every day,I talk about photography every day and "I prefer to help such kind of business than to shut up"

Dear Massimo,
Don't quote a remark out of my context (and leave out the main point).

How could a product(1st generation camera) be improved in the future if the manufacturer couldn't accept the discussion about its weaknesses?

I'd prefer to choose to ruin such kind of business than to shut up.

After several days consideration, I still replied with my friend's comments. I knew his reply was too aggressive. But I believed him because he was a experienced guy. Then there would(should) be to much argument here.

The precent new Gibellini LF cameras are good for showing, not good for using so far. But Gibellini would be a good LF camera in the future if the owner could accept the costumers responses and suggestions, then perfected Gibellinis later. The owner is young and good at industrial design. It's the advantage of Gibellini. But its weakness is obviously, because he is without photographic background. It's a new product.

Rome was not built in a day.

I hope the owner of Gebellini could see this thread by himself.
I hope he could treat this thread as a mirror and an encouragement, not as a crisis.
I hope he could gain from the Chamonix story.
I hope LF users could still have more options in the future.

I'd also listed Gebellini on the future options for LF photographers.

There were my statements on my past
threads.

Why did you still say:
I am always really shocked by the useless verbal violence that forums and posts on the web acquire almost as a second nature.

I have to type again my point:
I hope that the owner of Gebellini could see this thread about his products' discussion. Every manufacturer has to experience the praise and criticism of his products. How to step forward if he(or she) refused to accept the suggestion and criticism?

Do you still believe that I used verbal violence?

Regards,
pierre

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Lachlan 717
8-Sep-2016, 21:02
I'll be surprised if Gibellini hasn't sought legal advise over this thread.

pierre506
8-Sep-2016, 23:00
I'll be surprised if Gibellini hasn't sought legal advise over this thread.


You are the best candidate to forward this thread to him on Facebook. He is showing new 8x10 and 16x20 cameras there.

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Cor
9-Sep-2016, 00:04
I'll be surprised if Gibellini hasn't sought legal advise over this thread.

Because that is the North American way of solving problems ? As I understand it from posts of Ari the camera is an excellent piece of machinery, delivered to him with some flaws (as the 11*14 one in the poster above: I have a Gibellini 11x14 with 10x8 reducing back made for me,I have tested the camera with 14 sheets of film on a summer shoot and I am totally happy with the results.At this moment I am getting a few details changed)

Frustration arise when not everything worked as it should/expected communication and repairs did not went very smooth.

So rather seeking a legal option (fruitless, but what do I know) it would be far preferable it Gibellini would step into this conversation and address the points Ari has raised in a civil and polite way.

This thread is easily found by an internet search and potentially harmful to Gibellini, but I do not doubt Ari's observations, remarks and experiences, so again: let's hear from the others side..

..just my opinion..

Best,

Cor

Lachlan 717
9-Sep-2016, 00:19
Not Ari; Pierre and the site owner for allowing it to continue. Let the flames be lit...

jesse
9-Sep-2016, 00:35
Reviewing alon96's comments about the camera, I think he is telling the truth, it is good lesson for Gibellini to improve their product in the future, I don't think Gibellini will reject those comments.

Ari
9-Sep-2016, 11:10
Because that is the North American way of solving problems ? As I understand it from posts of Ari the camera is an excellent piece of machinery, delivered to him with some flaws (as the 11*14 one in the poster above: I have a Gibellini 11x14 with 10x8 reducing back made for me,I have tested the camera with 14 sheets of film on a summer shoot and I am totally happy with the results.At this moment I am getting a few details changed)

Frustration arise when not everything worked as it should/expected communication and repairs did not went very smooth.

So rather seeking a legal option (fruitless, but what do I know) it would be far preferable it Gibellini would step into this conversation and address the points Ari has raised in a civil and polite way.

This thread is easily found by an internet search and potentially harmful to Gibellini, but I do not doubt Ari's observations, remarks and experiences, so again: let's hear from the others side..

..just my opinion..

Best,

Cor

Actually, Lachlan is in Australia... :)
Alessandro Gibellini can address these issues if he wants to; as for me, I just wanted to relate my entire buying experience, warts and all, so others could have more information should they wish to look into the Gibellini.
Yes, some of the facts are less-than-ideal, for a customer, but on the whole, the cameras' build quality more than makes up for the lengthy wait time and inconsistent attention.
But what do I know? Maybe my camera was being updated at the same time as a large order for 12 cameras also came in. He's young and likely bit off more than he can chew for now, but it'll even out eventually.
I regret that I won't be doing business with them, but I have only good things to say about the cameras.



Reviewing alon96's comments about the camera, I think he is telling the truth, it is good lesson for Gibellini to improve their product in the future, I don't think Gibellini will reject those comments.

He's telling the truth, ok, but based on an older camera version.
Pierre's comments about Gibellini not adapting to customer demands ring hollow in this context, because my camera's very existence disproves his assertion that the company doesn't evolve and listen to its customers.
Maybe the very first Gibellinis had some issues, but alon96 cannot possibly be speaking of the current cameras, nor of the just-previous generation, because I can mount my 2-pound Cooke to the Gibellini and get the sharpest, clearest photos I've ever made on 8x10, thanks to the camera's stability and design.

DHodson
10-Sep-2016, 13:26
As someone pointed out, this thread might have gone on a bit too long. Before it closes though, I'd like to add a few supportive comments to go along with Ari's.

I was interested and excited that we might have a Canadian distributor for what could still become a world class camera and kudos to Ari for his efforts. If we have a look at the Gibellini Youtube videos we can see how far the camera design has come in just a few short years so you'd think it would be in our best interests to at least be understanding of the challenges involved and appreciative of the efforts. I believe constructive and supportive criticism might be the words I'm looking for.

I will be buying one of their 4x5's at some point - I just can't afford them right now with the Canadian dollar the way it is. I can't speak to Ari's challenges but I found Mr. Gibellini responsive to my questions and receptive to my suggestions for a couple of things that I was looking for. He went as far as suggesting the changes could be incorporated at no extra charge. Admittedly, I never actually bought the camera so I'll never know how that would have worked out - it's quite possible that I'd be in the same position as Ari. Customer service is such an important component and one sometimes overlooked until it's too late. I think it was Will Rogers that said "it takes a lifetime to build a good reputation but you can lose it in a minute". I've had my share of bad experiences with just about every established camera manufacturer going at one point or another so I might be prepared to give a startup a bit of slack.

It does seem to me as a relative newcomer to large format though, having one more quality camera manufacturer would be a good thing for us to encourage.

Regards
Dave

peter schrager
10-Sep-2016, 15:32
Dave if you're so worried about customer service why not buy a camera from richard Ritter. ..right over the border and he already knows how to make cameras...where do think everyone sends their wisners;chamonix Sinar etc ti be fixed...not back to China Germany or Italy
Sometimes it pays to look in your own backyard
Just a thought but one I have shared here many times on this forum
Best peter

Ari
10-Sep-2016, 16:22
Peter, it's an excellent suggestion, though sometimes it boils down to personal taste.
I considered Ritter cameras before buying the Gibellini, but I wanted a metal-only camera.

rorye
10-Sep-2016, 19:43
I have a first generation Gibellini that I bought a couple of years ago.
It's as solid as a rock, the focusing system works very well for me and I'd buy one again.
I understand it's not everyone's cup of tea but I really like my camera.

DHodson
10-Sep-2016, 23:05
Hi Peter

Thanks for your suggestion. I have looked at Mr. Ritter's work and I'm aware of his long history and skills as an artisan - certainly a quality camera to be treasured. I'd be surprised if he's interested in becoming the new Ebony though. I was speaking in support of a quality higher volume producer and I hope you would agree that we all benefit if Gibellini can succeed. In fact it might be counter-productive if they don't and we all put in an order for a Ritter camera. Much as it would be nice, I think many would be disappointed if we overwhelmed that same repair capability that we've come to rely on.

As Ari said, sometimes it boils down to personal taste and I'm interested in Gibellini's metal/composite camera. I just need a bit more money.

Regards
Dave

Gibellini Projects
12-Sep-2016, 06:49
Goodmorning,

I'm Alessandro Gibellini, CEO of the Gibellini Projects & Co. nice to meet you all. I saw this thread and i want to explain some things.

First of all: We started the production in April 2014 with the D series models, they had no fine focusing gear but only precise push and pull. Thanks to some costumers we improved the cameras and specs (one was always better than the previous). I want to say "Thanks" so to all the costumers that bought the first cameras and trust in our project.
From October 2015 we started the production of the N series with so many improvements and new design or features near the old D series. The D series was a fast camera to use and with the N series we created a camera entirely Aluminum made, CNC unibody all components, so extremely strong and precise, absolutely nothing near the old D series.
For that reason the D series and the N series are totally different products.

N series 810 accept Sinar size lens boards and with the adapter (as required from Ari) it can fit also very well the Linhof Technika size.
N series 45 is Gibellini size (114z114x4.5mm) so is possible mount larger lenses, but with the adapter is also possible use the Linhof Technika size.

Concerning the problem we got with Ari is because we had to do some modifies to the camera (the camera was made for fidelity film holder and not Toyo with 2mm different size, so we had to modify the camera's back to fit both the film holder with any light leaks, now they works perfectly with both the film holders) and also the technika adapter. We received a lot of orders this year, so we were really busy at work mounting 10 of them for month, that means we had some delays, that the reason for the delay on Ari's camera and costumer service.

We accept all helpful and concrete improvements as we always done from the beginning. Your presence is very important for us.

Regarding the costumer who bought the used D series AAD810 we will be happy to help him making a complete check up on his camera making some modifies and improvements regarding the D series (for ex..: locks and stop system for the focusing slide).

We are happy to show you also our new M series, fully fine micro movements with gears and folding camera. We are taking Pre Orders for them to start the production as soon as possible. Will be entirely carbon fiber and aluminum cmc for the most important structures.

Costumer service is for us really important and we are always ready to response to your answers or info requests.

For any informations don't esitate to contact us: info@gibellinicamera.com

All my best,

Alessandro Gibellini
CEO
www.gibellinicamera.com


154903
154904
154905

Tin Can
12-Sep-2016, 07:02
Welcome!

SergeiR
12-Sep-2016, 07:37
Lesson learned: in the future, let English as a Second Language (ESL) members flail. Don't get involved.

riight...

chris_4622
12-Sep-2016, 07:46
Welcome and thanks for the informative post.

I'll be back in Italy again early next year. I'll be sure to make some time to visit you.

Pfsor
12-Sep-2016, 08:16
Thank you Mr. Gibellini for finding a time to react to this thread. I admire your endeavour with Gibellini cameras and wish you all the best! In bocca al lupo!

Ari
12-Sep-2016, 08:46
Indeed, welcome to the forum, Alessandro, and thank you for responding to this thread; it makes a world of difference to hear directly from the manufacturer.
I wish you well, and I hope that any snags or delays in delivery/repair time will be ironed out on due time.

The M series design looks pretty amazing, congratulations. That should silence a few critics here.

jeep jakra
23-May-2017, 02:58
wow... I just finished read all 8 page of comments

jeep jakra
23-May-2017, 17:15
After waiting for almost three months, he sent me picture just now.

He promised me that he will ship out by May 29, 2017 ( It is the deadline that I gave him, if not I want my money back)

I will update and show you all after I receive the camera which is ACN 4x5

dodphotography
23-May-2017, 17:26
I can't keep track of the 126 models and variations that seem to come out monthly.

jeep jakra
29-May-2017, 19:31
Last night I try to get the tracking number from him after he send me pictures of camera.
This is our conversation in my Facebook message.

G: Shipped from our factory yes The courier got it
Me: pls give me tracking. When courier get the package, will give tracking.
G: They give me the tracking in the evening (about 1h) not immediately. It's shipped. Don't worry
G: Jeep, please. It's shipped we have a subscription with them, so we have not paper after shipping.

After he gave me the tracking number, I contact Fedex just now (May 30 9.20am).
( Bangkok and Italy have 6 hours different. Bangkok is faster.)
The Fedex told me that there is no shipping or anything. He just created the shipping label.
Fedex not yet receive the package from him. Here is the tracking number 779247519730

So I contact Paypal and told them this case. I want my money back after waiting for 3 months.
Before I pay him in Feb 28, he said the camera will be ready in 30 days or max 40 days.

Just want to update my bad experience

peter schrager
29-May-2017, 20:33
Got the answer you need
Richard ritter..american made and backed by someone who knows what they are doing

Fred L
30-May-2017, 05:08
I'd give it a day or two before making a Paypal case. It's possible the paperwork hasn't been completed updated. But yeah, Ritter. or Canham

Taija71A
30-May-2017, 12:14
@jeep jakra...

I do not know, if this will make you feel better or not...
But, your Camera was actually 'S H I P P E D' (*NOTE: Screen Shot taken @ 'Origin' Time Zone).

The Scheduled delivery is: Mon 6/05/2017 by 3:00 PM.

165583

Thank-you!

-Tim.
_________

Kirk Gittings
30-May-2017, 12:31
Got the answer you need
Richard ritter..american made and backed by someone who knows what they are doing

Who are you answering? Ritter doesn't make 4x5s right?

peter schrager
30-May-2017, 13:25
Hey Kirk chillout...my bad ok??
buy a shenHao instead; they are lovely and will last...

Kirk Gittings
30-May-2017, 13:41
Hey Kirk chillout...my bad ok??
buy a shenHao instead; they are lovely and will last...

I don't need to chillout. I'm just trying to point out some potentially misinformation.

pierre506
31-May-2017, 01:32
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TqhyPCvySs

Gibellini Projects
31-May-2017, 01:56
Goodmorning,

we are here just to response to the unlikely threads:

1) We produce customized cameras, our delivery time is usually 30/40 working days, but for customized items sometimes we need more time about 60 working days (as you can see on our website under Terms page).

2) The camera we're talking about was shipped from our company on 29/05/2017 as promised to the client, we gave it to MBE and they used FedEx as shipper. If they got some delays and the camera start flying during the 30/05/2017 is not our problem. Now i can see that the camera is yet in Thailand. We immediately communicate the Tracking number to the customer as soon as we get it.

3) We are proudly always ready and available to find solutions or modifies and we keep always informed our customers regarding the working progress on their cameras.

4) The camera showed in the video from Pierre506 was the prototype not functional of the full carbon camera. (Prototype to see the dimensions, weight, features and modifies, not a working camera but to define the future modifies on this kind of camera, i sincerely don't know why people are spamming everywhere things just to do).

We are working a lot to make the film and analog photography great again, we appreciate so much the tons of support received from our serious customers. We are also expanding our company with a lot of improvements (big CNC machines 4 and 5 axis for aluminum and Titanium works, New technologies and R&D lab. with also an authorized Metric room, all internal to our company).

Soon we will be able to offer "ready to ship" cameras and accessories to offer the best experience to our customers.

Here we are for informations and helps.

Gibellini Projects & Co. team

pierre506
31-May-2017, 05:35
Dear Alessandro,
It seems that you were caring about this thread. It's good for both sides: you and your customers.
I hope there are more LF camera brands and manufacturers on the market. It's better for us to choose, at least more options.
Every producer had to face the imperfection of his products. But the results were upon his attitude to the defective. Someone hated to see it. And someone welcomes.
Wishing you're the good one. I knew you were a good salesman, at least.
Sincerely,
pierre


Goodmorning,

we are here just to response to the unlikely threads:

1) We produce customized cameras, our delivery time is usually 30/40 working days, but for customized items sometimes we need more time about 60 working days (as you can see on our website under Terms page).

2) The camera we're talking about was shipped from our company on 29/05/2017 as promised to the client, we gave it to MBE and they used FedEx as shipper. If they got some delays and the camera start flying during the 30/05/2017 is not our problem. Now i can see that the camera is yet in Thailand. We immediately communicate the Tracking number to the customer as soon as we get it.

3) We are proudly always ready and available to find solutions or modifies and we keep always informed our customers regarding the working progress on their cameras.

4) The camera showed in the video from Pierre506 was the prototype not functional of the full carbon camera. (Prototype to see the dimensions, weight, features and modifies, not a working camera but to define the future modifies on this kind of camera, i sincerely don't know why people are spamming everywhere things just to do).

We are working a lot to make the film and analog photography great again, we appreciate so much the tons of support received from our serious customers. We are also expanding our company with a lot of improvements (big CNC machines 4 and 5 axis for aluminum and Titanium works, New technologies and R&D lab. with also an authorized Metric room, all internal to our company).

Soon we will be able to offer "ready to ship" cameras and accessories to offer the best experience to our customers.

Here we are for informations and helps.

Gibellini Projects & Co. team

Taija71A
31-May-2017, 07:39
... Before I pay him in Feb 28, he said the camera will be ready in 30 days or max 40 days. Just want to update my bad experience.


... We produce customized cameras, our delivery time is usually 30/40 working days, but for customized items sometimes we need more time about 60 working days (as you can see on our website under Terms page).

Okay...
--
I of course, do not know the 'Details' of this specific Transaction.

However, it would 'appear' that the delivery time on this camera...
Was approximately 90 Days (*Please correct me if I am wrong)?

Either way... The following Terms of Use & Payments -- Were still not met:

https://www.gibellinicamera.com/terms
"Customized products need usually about 50/60 working days, because we need to make new projects and start special production."

http://tompeters.com/columns/under-promise-over-deliver/
"Quality is important, to be sure. So is absolute response time. And price.
But at the top of most lists, by far, is keeping your word. With uncertainty rising, if you "under promise, over deliver," you
will not only keep the customers satisfied; you'll keep the customers."

Thank-you! Regards, -Tim.

Gibellini Projects
31-May-2017, 08:55
Hello Pierre506 and Taija71A,

yes, we want for sure create a good feeling with our customers, that is really important for us. Create the best product for everyone is impossible, but we accept for sure all the improvements/suggestions to make it possible.

Regarding the delivery time: we always talk about working days, usually in Italy from Monday to Friday, and holy days or festivities are not working days. So we respected the delivery time and we do the best to make it possible. We have a lot of cameras to produce and all customers want different features or needs, we try to make them all and for urgent deliveries we are working also during the night.

We appreciate people that understood the problems and all the suggestions are really appreciate.

here we are for any kind of informations.

All the best,

Gibellini Projects & Co. team

Taija71A
31-May-2017, 09:20
... Regarding the delivery time: we always talk about working days...

Point... 'Well taken'.
Thank-you for that updated 'Clarification'. Greatly appreciated!


... So we respected the delivery time and we do the best to make it possible...

Re: Delivery. 'Agreed in full' 110%.
Job well done. Best Regards, -Tim

Sal Santamaura
31-May-2017, 09:22
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TqhyPCvySsThanks for that link. I just emailed it to Dick Phillips. He'll probably find the video 'entertaining.' :D

Taija71A
31-May-2017, 09:31
Thanks for that link. I just emailed it to Dick Phillips. He'll probably find the video 'entertaining.' :D

"No Further Comment." :p

Gibellini Projects
31-May-2017, 09:46
we repeat, the camera in the video was a dimensional prototype and not the complete product. We don't want to spent much more time on this, all the other informations are appreciated, polemics or bad critics no.

All the best,

Gibellini Projects & co team

Oren Grad
1-Jun-2017, 07:29
I've deleted a handful of posts. Just a reminder that substantive, critical observations based on direct experience or documented facts about the company or its products are OK, so long as they are expressed in a way that's consistent with our "Maintaining Forum Decorum" rule.

Personal attacks, unsupported insinuations of wrong-doing, or piling on just for the sake of showing off how nasty one can be, are violations of our guidelines and won't be tolerated.

jeep jakra
28-Jun-2017, 03:53
update my case.
After a long process of re-export from Fedex, they already send back the camera.
Package should arrive there today. When he receive the camera, I should have my money back.
I will let you all know. Thank you

Here is the Tracking number 811615882651

Already arrive there, I think.

Status: Clearance instructions from the importer are required.

Jody_S
29-Jun-2017, 09:42
It actually looks like a beautiful camera that may have a few kinks still to work out but I hope they keep at it (yes I watched the video and read Allessandro's explanations). It's obviously not as rigid as some heavier cameras, and I do wish camera builders would make them with larger lens boards but then that front standard couldn't bear the weight of anything that would need a 9" lens board so I guess it's moot point. It looks like a wonderful hiking camera and I personally would consider one if I were shopping for a new field 8x10.