View Camera Magazine Needs a Proofreader - Again

[Doug Dolde]

I couldn't help laughing at the current issue of View Camera. I tried finding Chas Cramer's article and when I looked at the Contents page I saw there were THREE articles all beginning on page 32 !

Either the editor is blind or can't read or doesn't care or all of the above. It's a pity to blemish the 100th issue's Contents page with such a stupid error.

Funny though how they notice when you haven't renewed and send notice after notice after notice that your subscription has expired.

[Mike Davis]

Gee Doug what pithy commentary. Have you ever actually produced a magazine? I spent 3 years as the production manager of one, 3 years in printing and 3 years in advertising. And to put it succinctly, stuff happens.

Since I read VC from cover to cover, I didn't spend time on the TOC. As a matter of fact, I never even looked at it. I did see some good portfolios and articles unavailable anywhere else. That's why I read it, why I subscribe, and why I'm responding to your post.

Mispellings, errors and all, for me VC is worth the subscription price and more.

[John Flavell]

As a working photographer for a daily newspaper I can understand how these things happen. I also know a few readers tend to find that one mistake or two and immediately shout it out, disregarding everything done right.

I started reading VC because I wanted to get into large format. I wanted information and the magazine provides it at a cost I can agree with. I received the renewal notice Saturday and I'll be sending it in without hesitation because I'm looking forward to the upcoming articles. I've never met Steve or any of the others who work on the magazine, but I think they do a fine a job and hope they continue. If such mundane things bother you that much, Doug, don't renew. Give it up. Quit reading it. Try starting your own. Read somethng else. Get a life. The choices are simple and endless.

I wonder how many people can take a pile of words and photographs and put them into an attractive format on a deadline. Not to mention dealing with subscribers and advertisers. Also, try to have a ife. It is not an easy job and it takes a certain glutton for punishment to take it on. To say the editor doesn't care is not only plain wrong, it's a viscious criticism and it's undeserved.

Have a nice day.

[francisco_5406]

Funny how guys who take two hours to set up a camera and spend all day making one print are so forgiving of a magazine that has no hard deadline or any hard news... All they'd have to do is release a PDF or two to a volunteer (free) proofer for 24 hours...

[N Dhananjay]

I must confess to finding this increasingly annoying myself. I have some experience with the print production industry and know some of the difficulties involved. I also think it is nice to have a publication devoted to our pursuits, especially one which puts out good information and does not degenerate into a complete advertising driven rag. It doesn't even bother me when there are minor typos and errors. But when the text refers to Figs 3, 4 and 5 (the article on semi-stand developing), and they can't be found, it does make it difficult to follow along with what one is reading. Not trying to bash on anyone, but merely conveying some feedback. Cheers, DJ

[Erik Gould]

I agree with DJ, I find it frustrating that the text refers to figures that don't exist in the semi-stand piece, and it's amusing to see Steinhour press referred to as "Stinkhorn press" multiple times in the Tillman Crane piece, (although probably not amusing to Steinhour). By pointing these things out I'm not trying to bash VC or Steve Simmons, and I think the majority of folks here feel the same. I like VC and I'm very glad it exists. Mistakes happen, but I think this is an area they could improve upon. I don't think there is any need to take a "love it or leave it" attitude towards posters who offer some feedback.

[Gem Singer]

Why don't you folks who want to voice a complaint about View Camera send it directly to Steve? What do you have to gain by posting your dissatisfaction here on this forum? If the publication doesn't meet your expectations, merely stop reading it, or publish your own magazine. There, I said it, and I'm glad I got that off my chest this morning.

[steve simmons]

We do send a pdf of each article back to the authors and have been doing so for the last several issues. We also have added a proof reader for the last couple of issues but names are hard because they can primarily check for spelling, punctuation and grammar.

With regards to the no deadline comment I am not sure what is meant by this. We have never missed an issue since we started in 1988. No hard news? We present news about the large format industry and activity as it happens.

Yes, we make mistakes. When I read other maazines see mistakes in hm as well. It is a reality of the publishing business that mistakes are much more visible after the piece is printed.

steve simmons

[Donald Hutton]

Or posted.....

[Barry Trabitz]

Response to Eugene Singer,

I have emailed VC and it's editor and never received an answer or acknowledgement.

The last was a request for information regarding the conference in Springfield, MA. I phoned in a reservation and paid with a credit card. I was told that an acknowledgement would be mailed along with a form to request reservations for seats at the various lectures. I asked about portfolio reviews and was told that I would receive a form along with costs in the ssame packet. I am still waiting for this to arrive. I sent an email requesting acknowledgement and the above information. No response.

The VC website states that this information would be available in the last issue, it is not.

I am looking forward to the conference, but it seems to me that with a very little bit of effort on the part of the people at the magazine the experience could be made much more pleasant.

Barry Trabitz

[steve simmons]

Michael

Mistakes Happen. Your continual public complaining is not doing anything to make a positive contribtion to anything. Apparentlyyou are one of those people who feels it is fair to stand and read a magazine, thereby taking the contents, without paying for it. The ethics of that type of behavior are far lower than any honest mistake that we may make. The fact that you and a few others seem to feel the need to come on a public forum unrelated to the magazine an harp over an over again makes one wonder about your agenda.

steve simmons

[ronald lamarsh]

To Michael and all those who are so upset about editorial errors in VC magazine. Why don't you all get together and see if you can put out your own publication? Are you all actually up to it? Or are you like most folks who when they can't do better they just criticize.

[Eric Biggerstaff]

I think this is getting a bit out of hand.

I buy VC because I enjoy learning more about my craft and seeing what others are doing. If it came out on plain paper, stapled at the edge, I would probably still buy it. On the rare occasion that I have had any issues with delivery, they have always addressed my concerns promptly and professionaly.

We are a small community within the greater world of photography, and I think we should support each other as best we can. This forum should not degrade to a bashing session. If there is feedback that can assist then we should provide it, remember it is not what you say but how you say it.

Thanks for staying positive.

[Robert McClure]

Gentlemen,

Can we not give Mr. Simmons the benefit of the doubt? Can we not give him credit for what he does successfully accomplish each issue? Why must he necessarily rise to the standard many of you have suggested he must - or face what is often very harsh criticism?

As one person suggests, why don't the most disgruntled of you personally communicate with Mr. Simmons? Cite your objections and or make your constructive criticisms. The motive might be to simply inform Mr. Simmons, or to assist him in making improvements you feel might increase the quality of View Camera Magazine. Provided this is truly an objective.

But I note that many of the remarks included above carry unusual intensity, and border on outrage. I am therefore compelled to ask: has Mr. Simmons truly damaged some of you to such a point that anger and resentment are reasonable responses?

It's very tempting for me, when I am angry, to lash out at other persons and situations. Because I have a need to bleed off my own anger. I want targets. My instinct does not include that I might focus on my own feelings and emotions as the primary source of the real answers. But I want those answers as a photographer and seeker of truth.

Now, you will forgive me for my directness, but in some cases above, the real issue for some of you might be that you are just angry. Steve Simmons (or Ron Wisner) and their actions (good or bad) may not really be the issue for you, as far as personally important issues go.

As a photographer, I try to stay away from the kinds of things that might negatively impact my art and craft.

You just have to get really honest. That can start a process which can lead to things most people never experience, because it's so difficult to confront self. I was scared that when I met him I wouldn't like him, but he turned out to be ok. Then everyone else was, warts and all.

Pax Vobiscum

[John Boeckeler]

Sure he's going to take a good look at VC - even read an article - before he buys it. It seems that with this magazine, he doesn't want to buy a pig in a poke. I wouldn't call that unethical and low behavior.

[Doug Dolde]

Yes I did suspend my subscription...thats how I know about the incessant renewal notices.

I bought this one on the newstand only because I wanted the Charles Cramer article. hen I went to page 32 where the contents said it was, another article was there.

Ok so it's not a deal stopper...it just seems ridiculous for a magazine of this caliber to have such continual and glaring errors.

[steve simmons]

Mr. Traitz
We do not reserve seats at specific panels. No one would have told you that. We only just began charging the card numbers people gave us. We always wait to eliminate problms if people have to cancel and the problem of refund. This makes it cleaner for everyone. All seating is on a first come first served basis. This is how we have always done it. We do what we think will be the more popular sessions twice incase there is a conflict with another session.

The program for the conference has been in the Jan/Feb and March/April issues. It is also on the web site. It has ben made readily available to anyone and everyone.

To Mr. Alpert.

No you did not start this thread but you made some personal remarks in your post and that is what I am responding to. There was no need for such behavior and you could have made your point without becoming personal.

steve simmons

[Chad Jarvis]

There can be no excuse for spelling errors.

The correct answer to the criticism, which in my opinion is fair, is "Your input is valuable; we recognize it as a problem, and we'll try harder." In the past I've been vocal - though not rabid - regarding poor editing and spell checking in VC. I appreciate Steve's argument that it's difficult, but that doesn't relieve him of his responsibility as an editor and publisher.

I have some pet peeves. In television news I expect correspondents and anchors to understand and use English in a grammatically correct fashion. In print, I expect editors to do the same. I also expect them - if actually unable to spell or type accurately - to be able to use a spell checker. No excuse. Unfortunately some us appear to hold ourselves to higher standards when posting to a bulletin board than some editors do when proofreading copy.

And before Mr. Simmons challenges me to publish something, I already have. I acknowledge the difficulties in production, and to you I suggest Microsoft Word. It's got a terrific spell checker, and the grammar check, while not perfect, is quite useful.

I don't believe this is nit picking. It's been a persistent problem in VC for so long now that it is somehow deemed acceptable. It's really not. Plenty of rags have many times more content with a far lower error rate. If the "When I read other maazines see mistakes in hm as well." (Does anyone else see the irony in this quote?) dog would hunt, these conversations wouldn't be happening so often.

Before I'm accused of harping as well, I'll go on record as saying I used to subscribe, but I found the copy to be too poorly written and edited to buy and try to ignore, so I dropped my subscription. Any publisher/editor out there who believes publishing sub-par copy is acceptable is choosing to accept his own mediocrity. Those of us who don't accept mediocrity need not buy the publication, which is why I for one choose not to.

If you managed to actually read all this, I thank you.

[Bob Douglas]

What a sad day this has turned out to be. Come on folks this bashing is turning really ugly. If you really want to make change happen communicate with the staff at VC not on this forum.



Steve,





I don't bloody care about typos, editing errors, table of contents being mis-numbered. I can live with it as it's the contents that really matter at least to me.



You and the team are doing an absolutely awesome job for the large format community! So bloody what if errors do occur. We all make them, the whiners need to get over it, live and enjoy life.



Awaiting my next issue with anticipation, typos included ;-)



Peace,



Bob

[Dean Tomasula]

I think we all would be better served if we find something we don't like in VC magazine to go directly to the source. E-mail Steve with your complaints and politely point out the mistakes you've found. I'm sure he would be more inclined to try to alleviate the problem if he knew you were more interested in his putting out the best possible photography magazine, rather than calling him names.

Yelling at him here on this forum serves no purpose. He and his staff are not perfect and will make mistakes. Sometimes mistakes get through when deadlines approach. It happens at all publications.

Instead of complaining and calling him names, help him out a little by privately e-mailing when you find something wrong. At the rate magazines go out of business and worse, cover digital, we should be thankfull there's a magazine of such quality dedicated to LF photography. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't call him on it when he screws up. We should just do it politely.

[Jeff Hall]

I must echo Bob. I read this forum often but post rarely. It's downright unbelievable the maturity level in here when it comes to View Camera and Ron Wisner. If you like to see your thoughts in print, go somewhere else.

j

[John Z.]

My two cents; the images are the most important aspect of the magazine, and the text secondary! If the article are of value, and the images are good, then the magazine will succeed at its goal of helping us see more of what is happening in the field of large format photography. My sense is that there is so little now to look at, that I am thankful for any info I can get, including View Camera magazine. It is not perfect, but there are not many alternatives either!

[Charles Hohenstein]

Chad Jarvis wrote:

"There can be no excuse for spelling errors. "

I agree. I don't understand why any criticism of View Camera magazine always elicits an emotional response from people who regard it as "bashing Steve." And I also don't understand why anyone would suggest that discussion of View Camera is out of place in a View Camera forum. There is nothing holy about either the publication or the editor, and pointing out its shortcomings is not a sin or character assassination.

As I have said here before, I subscribe to View Camera and like it generally, but I have to agree with the person who said that it has the lowest standard of editing of any publication he has ever seen. As someone who spent several years editing articles for publication, I can tell you that I considered any mistake which appeared in print as my own mistake, for not catching it. The comment that Steve sends a PDF back to the authors for checking, as if that excused his own sloppiness, is ludicrous. Soliciting corrections to proofs from authors is no substitute for careful proofreading. Any mistake that appears in print is the editor's fault. That is what editors are for.

Most of the problems are spelling errors and could be caught in just a few short minutes by putting the text through a spelling checker, into which the most frequently encountered proper names and brand names have been entered. How long does it take to turn "Steiglitz" into Stieglitz--a couple of seconds? How long would it take to correct the spelling of an entire issue? Maybe an hour. More, of course, to fix grammatical and stylistic issues.

Okay, now you guys can tell me that I am a bad person for saying that an editor ought to edit. :)

[Jim Ewins]

Hey guys, we've got some real enemie out there to vent againest - like our government. If you want to look for errors look to a government program. With VC we all have the choice to buy or not to buy. The content is what I buy it for, it is not a "coffee table" show piece for me. One could buy some other photo rags that feature a few nice pics and loads of puff. Did the landscape guys loose all perspective???

[RichSBV]

Talk about priorities in the wrong place and pettiness....

We just watched "Hotel Rwanda" the other night showing the senseless murder of millions. How many people have died in Iraq??? Meanwhile our governement is taxing us to death and systematically disassembling our Consitution...

We (my family) have been trying to adopt children for 6 YEARS now. We can't because our county will not allow non white children to be adopted here...

I could go on and on for months like this. I'm sure people with sense get the idea...

But yes, the most important thing in life is a few spelling mistakes in VC...

[John Boeckeler]

Go ahead. Let your hair down. Tell us what you really think. Everyone else does.

[John Layton]

There are times, in this day and age, when I feel it is absolutely the most remarkable thing that I can connect with an essence of something that is so much larger than myself - and that I can do this with a camera. To have a magazine whose underlying premise is to aknowledge the importance of this connection, that which Edward Weston referred to as "the flame of recognition" is also, in this day and age, a remarkable thing. To give contributers (to VC) a forum within which, in relative safety, they can express themselves, unfettered by the exigencies of "popular (commercial) culture" - who in other words can take the risk of falling flat on their faces as visual artists who are trying so hard to put into words that which can feel unexpressible by any means other than visual, and to be encouraged to take this risk - is the most remarkable thing of all. So to me it is the larger mission of View Camera which truly counts, and to the extent that it doesn't lose sight of this, that this continues to be delivered with each and every issue, I'm not going to sweat the small stuff.

[Matt Magruder]

Steve.
I posted a question in your forum on viewcamera.com about content in the magazine.
NO ANSWER. I have received an answer on it and its been over a month.

I am the art director of a nationally distributed magazine (I am NOT an editor) and even I would have caught at least 50% of your mistakes on a first read through. so I do have intimate knowledge of the process/industry/business.

It really is something that needs to be remedied and worked on. I am glad you all are at 100 issues and I hope it continues for a 100 more. It just needs to be more carefully and thoroughly edited. its unprofessional.

Have you all considered hiring an outside editor not connected with the industry and who could offer up a fresh set of eyes to help remedy the problem.

[Chad Jarvis]

I personally would do it voluntarily...just for the love of language.

That's an offer, Steve.

[robert_4927]

Doug, three does not need to be capitalized in the first sentence of your post. The third block paragraph of your post is a fragmented sentence. You see, this argument is getting old. We all know of the misprints in VC and the apologies that Mr. Simmons must continue to make. The solution is simple....don't buy it! Spend your money on creative writing classes so we won't have to correct you anymore. The man is doing the large format community a service and I'm sure it is being done on a shoe string budget in comparison to larger rags such as "Time", "Sports Illustrated"... ect...ect. Personally I'm not so anal that I must point out every mistake and I can look past a few misspellings to get at the content. Large format photography is not at a point where we can bash anyone trying to make a contribution. We should be encouraging not defaming. It has gotten to the point that some just wait for VC to come out to find the slightest mistake to bring Mr. Simmons to task on. I also hope that in case your livelihood is ever called into question they take it up personally with you and not smear their complaints about you all over a public forum. Mr. Simmons, trust me, if I have any issues with your publication I will contact you personally.

[Kirk Gittings]

At the risk of sounding silly....have you ever had a really great dog, smart, protective, good looking, loyal etc. that you really loved but it had a couple of annoying bad habits that couldn't get rid of?

Pet metaphors aside, on the whole VC has had an important and lasting positive effect on the genre that a few bad habits cannot dimenish or erase.

[Robert McClure]

Mr. Alpert and others,

You have added further information to my personal understanding of this situation. Thank you. And I appreciate your well expressed view that VCM is a "missed" opportunity. I can easily see how you or others might feel as you do. You make good points, truly.

However, your gifts to Mr. Simmons are apparently not wanted by their recipient. Or at least he has chosen to not accept. Is it not Mr. Simmons' right to do so? I am new to this forum, yes, but please help me understand why Mr. Simmons is obligated to alleviate your (and others') frustration at his not responding to gifts, constructive criticism, etc.

I can understand how a famous baseball player has a kind of moral obligation to not advocate drug use so as not to influence America's kids negatively. Help me understand how your expectations of Mr. Simmons carry that same kind of moral weight. Where does the moral authority to, in effect, demand that Mr. Simmons do what you want him to do, originate from?

Now, are you saying merely, "Hey Steve, come on. This is the only large format publication of its kind out there. If you're going to do it, then just do the damn thing right, for Pete's sake!!

Now I can understand that. But I also understand that you and others, ultimately, have not the moral authority (in any source) to back your expectation or demand. No moral authority trumps Mr. Simons' right to be who he is.

If you say Mr. Simmons OUGHT to heed the numerous requests, why MUST he? Why? To alleviate our collective frustration? Because others in his profession proof their publications better? Becasue the delicate and sophistocated sensibilities of many have been assaulted?

I don't know Mr. Simmons, but he seems to be doing an adequate job already. Having read some of his comments, I wouldn't be surprised if he showed three articles on the contents page (in the current issue) as starting on the same page just to piss some of you off.

I apprecaite and understand your concerns, sincerely. You can appeal to Mr. Simmons on whatever grounds you wish. But none of the grounds can be truly compelling, in my opinion. So Mr. Simmons thumbs his nose at you and others, in effect, eh? I hate to tell you this, but it's his right. Sorry!

Pax Vobiscum

[francisco_5406]

It's OK for VC to have a lot of inconsistencies, errors, and what not.

That's why there is a market for LENSWORK.

[Eric Rose]

When I first started reading VC I too was shocked and disappointed at the poor editing. I even contributed to some of the VC bashing. Over time I just decided that VC and poor editing go together and have become part of the folk lore of LF photography.

I don't subscribe because in Canada it's actually cheaper to buy it from the book store. Go figure.

I enjoy the content and at this point would probably be disappointed if I found no errors. It's become part of the fun. Kind of a "where's Waldo" thing.

It's kind of like growing to love someone that is not totally visually perfect (who is??) because they have a great personality.

[Robert McClure]

Michael (et al),

I detect a voice of experience. As a newcomer I have been fascinated by all the ides dealt with in the forum's fostering of Milton's "marketplace of ideas." Yes, I have had my fling, too.

I must say that I feel I have been increased after having rubbed elbows with you, Michael, and other thinking and contemplative persons. That may sound maudlin, but I truly mean this. The intellectual form of stimulation is much more satisfying, and lasts a lot longer than the varieties
I constantly seemed to be involved in as a younger man. (I wonder how a Rush Limbaugh handles the making of scathing remarks about others, then gladhanding with them at social functions?)

Best Regards to Michael Alpert, Rush Limbaugh, and all!

Robert

[Jim Rhoades]

I have read and subscribed to View Camera for many years. I have met Mr. Simmons a few times and spent three days with him in Steamtown a number of years ago. The way I see it is that the only person Steve has ever hurt is his high school english teacher.

Mr. Wisner has on the other hand, screwed a good number of photographers. Please stop linking the two names together in this thread.

[Jorge Gasteazoro]

that is not totally visually perfect (who is??

I am....lol.....

Hey, what the HELL are you doing reading the forums and posting? shouldn't you be on your honeymoon?...............

Everybody, congratulate Eric........he is a prime example of a very brave man, deciding to give marriage another try at the tender age of 50..... :) ( Of course his new bride is even braver...the poor thing doe not know what she got into)

(Take that Eric, got you back for that wet back PM)....lol.....

[Eric Rose]

Your the best Jorge! We are having our honeymoon in Borneo leaving in July. Taking the 4x5 for sure.

[robert_4927]

Eric, I commend you. You are a much braver man than I. I've decided if I ever think of marriage again I'm just gonna find some chic I hate and buy her a house......lol....( cut to the chase)....lol ....But sincerely, congratulations

[Tom Diekwisch]

Yes, the typos are obvious and sometimes annoying, but from my point of view Steve only deserves applause for publishing a simply wonderful magazine. It's our magazine. Print quality is fantastic. The technical articles are classics already today. Their office is A+. The artistic quality of many of their articles is great, and there is something for everybody doing LF and ULF in each issue at a reasonable price. Look at the personal style. The magazine is family and Steve shows respect for everybody involved. I am simply amazed about how Steve does it for the price. Look at how Shutterbug and many other magazines have declined. Steve's magazine is up there every issue. It's a work of art in itself and a legacy Steve justly can be proud of. What are a few typos along the way? I have subscribed not only because I like the magazine but just to support the publication.

[Paddy Quinn]

"Yes, the typos are obvious and sometimes annoying, but from my point of view Steve only deserves applause for publishing a simply wonderful magazine. It's our magazine. Print quality is fantastic. The technical articles are classics already today. Their office is A+. The artistic quality of many of their articles is great, and there is something for everybody doing LF and ULF in each issue at a reasonable price. Look at the personal style. The magazine is family and Steve shows respect for everybody involved. I am simply amazed about how Steve does it for the price."

After all the fuss I checked out the 100th Issue at the newsstand today. I must say I was completley underwhelmed.

It was an utterly boring and blah issue of the magazine. Very little to excite or inspire me and it just seemed to be perpertuating the same old sorts of articles and images. Nothing new, nothing fresh. I spent my hard earned dosh on a copy of Architectural Record instead, which at least had some interesting pictures of interesting houses in it.

[Kirk Gittings]

Architectural Record instead of View Camera.......hum....I think that meay say allot more about you than about View Camera.

[Paddy Quinn]

Well, you would have to say that wouldn't you... May/June-Architectural
Portfolio by Kirk Gittings... ;-)

Architectural Record isn't usually my cup of tea but as my partner is
designing a new house, the house edition looked interesting.

View Camera really does seem to suffer far too much from the age old "excessive
concentration on the minutiae of technique that leads to a loss of overall
photographic vision" that even Lenswork seems to broken free from.

[Kirk Gittings]

"Well, you would have to say that wouldn't you..." As a matter of fact no.

Steve is one of my oldest friends and I make no apologies for that. But that is not why he shows my work. Or why I like the magazine. The work of mine that is being shown in the next issue is also part of a 32 year retrospective book, museum show and three other magazine articles all coming out about the same time. None of that other exposure came about by favours from friends either. This link will explain.

http://www.nmmagazine.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?_category=2&_fn=ViewCategory

The AD thing touched a nerve. My point about AD is that within the business it is not taken very seriously. It is considered a superfiscial celebrity interior decor rag. I have had business with them and their most important criteria tells all: who's house is it (are they important?) and how much did it cost? Most of the truely great residential architecture in this country does not grace the pages of AD and people with a real interest in architecture don't often read it. The last time I remember even looking at it was the John Travolta issue and that was because I've always had a bit of a crush on his wife. I can be shallow too. Plus, from a professional point of view, they pay poorly, demand all rights and treat you like dirt. I get higher fees for one time use from regional magazines here in the SW. The great living architectural photographers Hursley, McGrath, Aaron, Merrick won't work for them. There is a reason for that.

I am in the architectural photography business and I never buy or even read AD, but I always read and buy View Camera. There is a reason for that.

[Paddy Quinn]

My mistake (though the righteous rant was enjoyable) - didn't have it here. It was Architectural Record. The magazine you described definately didn't sound like one of the ones that was always lying around back when Karla was at OMA .

[Paddy Quinn]

Darn it - I shouldn't post when it's so late and I just finished watching Kill Bill 2.

Yes, it was Architectural Record as I first said. It seems that for someone with so much industry experience Kirk doesn't know his architectural magazines quite so well.

[Kirk Gittings]

My mistake. I guess my reading glasses were in the drawer. Architectural Record is a great magazine that has been a client of mine since 1986 and I don't say that Paddy because they publish my work.

[Kirk Gittings]

By the way....Just something to think about.....for all the naysayers out there who wouldn't be in VC even if the magazine asked. Why do people like Paul Caponogro and so many other great photographers continue to be in the magazine? Because it is a good venue that enjoys allot of respect in the industry. I met Steve because of an article I was writting many years ago. Since then there have been maybe a couple of articles about projects I was working on, a couple about my class at the Art Institute of Chicago etc. (I guess a some of these were actually in Camera Arts). There were maybe 8 articles including the one coming up. Anyway everyone of those was an unqualified pr coup that contributed well to my career. Photography is not a hobby for me, it is virtually my life and it is very very competitive. I am extremely busy. I can't waste my time on venues that aren't useful and of quality and I wouldn't waste my time on VC if it weren't.

[Mark Erickson]

If we all thought that the photos and article content in VC were poor, this thread wouldn't exist. Does it really seem to be outrageous for some of us to ask that Steve hold his text and layout editing to the same high standards that are evident in the photography of the contributors?

Just a thought....

[David A. Goldfarb]

Failing to proofread the magazine is trivial in the way that failing to spot prints is trivial. Yeah, maybe it's not the most important thing in the world, but would you sell or even give away prints with dust spots? Wouldn't that show a lack of pride in one's work and a kind of disrespect for the audience? If you saw a great student portfolio with dust spots and maybe a chemical streak or two, wouldn't you say, "this person's got some real potential, but isn't quite a professional yet"? If you got prints for display back from a lab with a couple of minor blemishes, wouldn't you have them redone?

Well, if you care about the language in the way that I'm guessing most of us care about fine prints, then these are the kinds of reactions that poor proofreading provokes.

[Kirk Gittings]

If you saw a great student portfolio with dust spots ...

I once saw a portfolio of Joel Merowitz on exhibit at a prestigious museum. The whole portfolio was unspoted. I would die personally before I let that happen, but I am pickier perhaps than some. You get my drift. Some people are just not detail oriented. They just have a vision for the big picture and for Steve that vision was VC. It is a great vision and with some historic significance. What I don't understand is the need for people to do this criticism publically. This is very shortsighted for professionals and would be professionals. It might be called shooting yourself in the foot.

[David A. Goldfarb]

Indeed, an editor should be a big picture guy, but that's why editors hire people like proofreaders to handle the details. Heck, if Meyerowitz were to give his spotting work to an assistant, I wouldn't fault him for it.

Why are people always criticizing Steve Simmons publically? I have a few theories, but posting them on the forum might constitute "piling on."

[Robert McClure]

I observe that Mr. Gittings above seems to allow that Mr. Simmons may be a "big picture" kind of guy. While allowing this, he refers to his own pickiness, and allows that others might not feel about spotting as he does. He seems neither passive, nor aggressive (as some in the thread seem to be). He seems assertive. That is, he appears comfortable to state what his own perspective is (on spotting, for example). But he doesn't seem to demand that others adopt his view (or be condemned for failure to do what they OUGHT, MUST, or SHOULD do). Ought/must/should has to have some moral authority behind it.

Not surprisingly, Mr. Gittings also seems to celebrate what Mr. Simmons is and what he has accomplished. He seems less interested in Mr. Simmons' other errors.

And going to someone privately with whom you have a beef (as Mr. Gittings also expresses) implies your goal is truth as you "see" it, while focusing above all else on the individual with whom you disagree and not wanting to damage that connection and fellowship.

As "artists" (whatever the word means), often with private thoughts and feelings (our work) we'd like to share with others, it occurs to me that our motives might need to be, well, kind of pure. If I may put it that way. Or at least free of the kind of stuff that may only contaminate the place inside us from where we "come." This is all a little nebulous, I know. But that's the way it seems to be when we talk about whatever it is within us that drives us to make the photographs
we do. That place deep inside us needs to be cultivated like a garden, I think. It's precious.

Even politicians understand the value of (posturing as if to be) taking the higher moral ground.
Their possible deception aside, they still understand something of what we're all made of. They head for Truth, despite their misuse of it sometimes.

Mr. Simmons' accomplishment is significant. I don't overlook typos and other editorial considerations because I am blind or ignorant. I simply choose to focus on the strengths of others because that safeguards that very mysterious and fragile place within me, and maybe in the other person. These "places" are, for me, very precious.

I would be really great to meet all of you guys some day soon.

[Kirk Gittings]

I simply choose to focus on the strengths of others because that safeguards that very mysterious and fragile place within me, and maybe in the other person.

Well said. Come to the VC conference and we can meet, observe each others strenghts and have a pint to celebrate our flaws.

[Robert McClure]

As a matter of fact I hadn't even contemplated coming to the conference. But thanks for asking, Kirk. I need to, truly. Thanks!!

Yes, I agree with you that flaws are celebrateable. Never thought "flaws" and "pint" could work in the same sentence before. Wow!

Regards

[RichSBV]

Perfection is an unattainable, artificial concept. By nature, we look for flaws. It is those flaws that create the beauty....

And after that, I'm sorry to say there's no way I could attend the conference (not that anyone would know one way or the other ;-)

So I'll celebrate with a pint. Or with luck, 3 pints and a package of salted peanuts!