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View Full Version : Very small Darlot Petzval lens



Duyfam
17-Aug-2016, 04:56
Hi, I just bought this lens from *bay, a miniature petzval lens.petz I would like to know if anybody can tell me about it. I don't know camera size of this lens, maybe 1/16 plate?. It's cover perfect on Panasonic GX 4/3 camera. What film and camera size are good together and such. I do some photos on Panasonic GX 4/3 camera, An y info would help. Thanks

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goamules
17-Aug-2016, 06:58
That is super cool. You don't see many Petzvals smaller than about 4 inch/100 mm. What is the focal length?

Duyfam
17-Aug-2016, 09:19
Thank you! It's about 2" F/4 and here are some pictures:

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jesse
17-Aug-2016, 09:50
I think this is for making wet plate inside the pendant.

Steven Tribe
17-Aug-2016, 14:08
Interesting.

Better photo of the engraving please!
No Waterhouse slot. Small Darlots are usually in plain barrels.
I would guess at a Salesman's sample or a toy magic lantern which requires focussing.

CCHarrison
17-Aug-2016, 15:35
yikes - just saw what you paid..... . great item....but wouldnt have expected it to fetch that much. I have a small one too, but not that small.

goamules
17-Aug-2016, 17:17
People pay $700 for Lomo junk that isn't even a Petzval. A real, tiny one is a treasure. I've been looking for a 50mm Petzval that covers full frame for....oh...forever. Less common than a Mammoth size even. People lost em...dropped them down the toilet, whatever. The closest I have is a 25mm Cine Petzval, but ie won't even cover micro43 very well, vignettes.

Duyfam
17-Aug-2016, 19:08
I've seen and put my hands on quite a lot of petzval lenses, but I was surprised to see a small lens with fine details of an analog watch. The size of photos from this camera is similar to that from gem camera. I wonder if it was made for photography, as it must be hard to focus with ground glass. I'm curious to see the camera to go with this lens. Btw some details of the lens: serial number is 21726, engraved on the inside of the lens cap and on rank & pinion.

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Steven Tribe
18-Aug-2016, 02:06
Did it have any signs of being used? The screw holes in the flange often receive small marks when the screws are inserted or withdrawn.

The centuries old apprentice system in Europe had a completion project before the apprentice was considered to have passed into the ranks of craftsmen. This was often a miniature example (best known in furniture/joinery), partly to check the quality of work and partly to save on resources. But perhaps not, as brass turning and lens grinding/polishing are different trades!

goamules
18-Aug-2016, 05:12
The smallest I've ever been able to get is this 5" Horne and Thornthwait from 1855. I do have 2-3 gemtype lenses, but they're not Petzvals. I also have a Darlot tube, that is about a 4" lens. That's it, they're not easy to find. Just as there are people that want a 16", F3.8 Petzval to fit on their 4.5" lensboard (it cannot be done), finding a tiny petzval that will cover 35mm is very difficult in a normal focal length.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3598/3518834444_e7e47db11d_o.jpg

Steven Tribe
18-Aug-2016, 06:11
I think this is for making wet plate inside the pendant.

Sorry, I think you are absolutely right. I (UK english speaking) always call hanging pendants with children's hair, photos of children (Even deceased!) or sweethearts, Lockets - so I didn't make the connection. Lockets were as important part of the Victorian scene as fob watches and there must have been enough demand for them to have a set-up smaller than the usual CdeV camera/lens combo.

Duyfam
18-Aug-2016, 09:08
@Steven Tribe: When looking at the body, I can see the marks showing that it has been used. They are fine and thin parallel lines from using rank and pinion to focus.

@Goamules: There are quite a lot of lens vignettes on the full frame camera. I have an no-name petzval lens for full frame camera (possibly the one to go with Dubroni) 75mm, very sharp. Here are my little petzval collection: A.Gaudin 120mm, No name: 75mm and Darlot lens.

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CCHarrison
19-Aug-2016, 04:37
Duyfam - you sure that middle lens is a petzval ? That sliding barrel mechanism is commonly found on Darlot RR lenses. On other hand,your lenshood is longer than found on RR lenses...interesting

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Duyfam
19-Aug-2016, 05:34
CCHarrison - In my knowledge Darlot Hemispherical base on RR type but Dubroni lens (are body in brass the same shape but comes with longer hood) use the petzval formula. Here is my lens with the small air space between the rear elements.

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Two23
20-Aug-2016, 20:16
Luckily for you I've been backpacking up in Canada for the past several weeks and did not see this. :D My shortest Petzval is FL=75mm. It too has R&P focus. I had it mounted in Nikon F and use it on a D800E. Also have a c.1851 CC Harrison 5 in., atiny 90mm rectilinear with Waterhouse stops, 50mm Darlot achromatic doublet with rotary stop--all put into Nikon F by SK Grimes.


Kent in SD

Duyfam
3-Sep-2016, 01:17
@Two23: thank you! :D
I just found the Smallest Daguerreotype Camera in the World and the same my petzval lens at this link: http://auction-team.de/new_highlights/2008_11/ph/004.html

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jaytral
3-Sep-2016, 06:36
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Steven Tribe
3-Sep-2016, 09:20
@Two23: thank you! :D
I just found the Smallest Daguerreotype Camera in the World and the same my petzval lens at this link: http://auction-team.de/new_highlights/2008_11/ph/004.html

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I would love to believe this, but:

All Darlot lenses are well past the mercury era (say 1862).
THe projection lenses are made in the later Darlot period where they used the crossed AD trademark, which, I think, is the case with your lens?
The serial number 11 is more likely size II or series II (2). Very early Darlot lenses have no serial number.
Making period sliding box cameras was a popular activity in late Victorian times.

Two23
3-Sep-2016, 09:31
I would love to believe this, but:

All Darlot lenses are well past the mercury era (say 1862).
THe projection lenses are made in the later Darlot period where they used the crossed AD trademark, which, I think, is the case with your lens?
The serial number 11 is more likely size II or series II (2). Very early Darlot lenses have no serial number.
Making period sliding box cameras was a popular activity in late Victorian times.



I was having trouble figuring that out also, with an additional question. Why would a Dag photographer go to all the trouble for such a small output? Would there be enough money to be made from that? I do remember that Victorians had a big interest in miniatures, and that makes more sense. Darlot was still in business in the 1890s too, but not during the Dag era. The little camera is cool, but no way I'd go $8,000 for it.


Kent in SD

Bernhardas
9-Sep-2016, 04:02
I cant find the link or any reference right now, but some time ago i saw pictures and a description of an old "id" camera. A wooden large format with 8 tiny lenses on the front board. It was supposed to be used for mass id production. For each picture only one lens was used, and after developing you had 8 smaller id pictures. I dimly remember that it was an English camera and that the company in question seemed to have produced cameras with different number of lenses at the time.

Steven Tribe
9-Sep-2016, 07:28
The origin of these was the battery of lenses producing 4, 8 or more simultaneous identical images on a single large plate. The contact printed positive was cut-up to provide images for family and friends. These were simple lens without diaphragms and barrel thread mounts - gem lenses.

The next step was a large camera, again with a large plate, but with a single lens. An ingeneous, and often patented, mechanical system moved the plate holder through vertical and horizontal to fill out the plate with lots of variations of the same portrait sitter.

By the way, these tiny lenses did have the locket trade in mind.
I quote from the Ross Catalogue in CCHarrison's website.

"A Portrait lens producing with the whole aperture pictures of a size for Locket plates 1 1/2 x 1 inch and with the diaphragm size 3 1/4 x 2 3/4 inches. £6.
A set of WH diaphragms in morocco case for ditto. £1."

Thanakorn
24-Oct-2023, 21:07
Hello,
Do you think mine could be it?

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Chai

Ron (Netherlands)
27-Oct-2023, 02:59
I've seen and put my hands on quite a lot of petzval lenses, but I was surprised to see a small lens with fine details of an analog watch. The size of photos from this camera is similar to that from gem camera. I wonder if it was made for photography, as it must be hard to focus with ground glass. I'm curious to see the camera to go with this lens. Btw some details of the lens: serial number is 21726, engraved on the inside of the lens cap and on rank & pinion.

153970 153971

A real treasure - good find! Darlot made also comparable tiny achromat landscape lenses for stereo cams; also hard to find. (...and would be nice to build a camera for such a tiny lens)