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hendrik faure
4-Aug-2016, 13:10
how can I connect original Rodenstock Imagon 200 mm to Graflex 4x5 lens board? low tec preferred.
(I know lens will not cover all)
thank you for advice
hendrik

Dan Fromm
4-Aug-2016, 13:32
Not to be a complete idiot, but I don't see a problem. I believe the lens is sold in shutter, not in barrel. If so, the shutter will be threaded at the rear and will accept a retaining ring. If yours lacks a retaining ring, many sources can supply one to fit the shutter. I use skgrimes.com. I'm sure retaining rings and flanges are also available from sources in Germany.

If the lens is in barrel, again, the barrel should be threaded to attach to a retaining ring or flange. Many sources.

Drill a hole in a Graflex lens board, insert the back of the shutter, attach the retaining ring to the back of the shutter from behind, screw tight.

Mark Woods
4-Aug-2016, 13:34
I have a 200 Imagon that covers my 8x10 camera. It's a great lens.

EdSawyer
4-Aug-2016, 13:53
It will definitely cover 4x5, esp. @ portrait distance.

Bob Salomon
4-Aug-2016, 14:11
It is mounted in a 3 shutter. You are correct, it does no really work for 45, especially when you make enlargements as the effect changes with magnification as you make prints. The 200 is optimized for 69, 67 and 66. The 250 is designed for 45 portraits. It also fits directly into a 3 shutter. So, if your camera's lens board can fit a 3 shutter the lens will easily mount in your camera. Just make sure the lens board lock on the camera is working properly.

B.S.Kumar
4-Aug-2016, 15:24
I've seen Imagons in barrel.

Kumar

Bob Salomon
4-Aug-2016, 15:31
I've seen Imagons in barrel.

Kumar
They; 200, 250 and 300mm in barrel still mount in a 3 size hole.

hendrik faure
5-Aug-2016, 14:46
thankyou all for help! and sorry for asking not exactly:
usually I make my lens boards from thick paper, wood or brass and fix lenses via glue tape.
But here I have a nearly new lens
http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u568/hfa8/imagon_zpsznos4kne.jpg
and want a bit more perfection
Unfortunately I do not know a german provider of retaining rings and also did not know what to ask for.
But I think Dan´s answer helps most and I will ask there. (problem when buying in USA is german taxmen making me poor).
hendrik

Bob Salomon
5-Aug-2016, 15:21
thankyou all for help! and sorry for asking not exactly:
usually I make my lens boards from thick paper, wood or brass and fix lenses via glue tape.
But here I have a nearly new lens
http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u568/hfa8/imagon_zpsznos4kne.jpg
and want a bit more perfection
Unfortunately I do not know a german provider of retaining rings and also did not know what to ask for.
But I think Dan´s answer helps most and I will ask there. (problem when buying in USA is german taxmen making me poor).
hendrik

Then contact Rodenstock in Munich and see if they still have the retaking ring or the flange for a 3 size shutter.

Bob Salomon
5-Aug-2016, 15:24
Then contact Rodenstock in Munich and see if they still have the retaking ring or the flange for a 3 size shutter.
It may be new, or almost new, but that packaging is decades old. When we became the US Rodenstock distributor that packaging had long been discontinued. However, what you have is the grey filter, lens hood and the 3 disks and that was the last set for the Imagon. Before that it also came with a green filter.

hendrik faure
5-Aug-2016, 15:33
Bob,
I did not suppose, that the ring might be still available, "nearly new" meant compared to my other lenses.
I will ask there. Thank You

hendrik faure
9-Aug-2016, 12:13
I adressed to Rodenstock, they answered promptly, but no rings available and in their archives no information about the thread.
b.t.w. Rodenstock today is called Qioptiq Photonics GmbH & Co. KG.
Strangely their office is registered in Göttingen 500m from the place where I work.
I might have gone there during my lunch break instead of emailing around the globe.

Bob Salomon
9-Aug-2016, 12:58
I adressed to Rodenstock, they answered promptly, but no rings available and in their archives no information about the thread.
b.t.w. Rodenstock today is called Qioptiq Photonics GmbH & Co. KG.
Strangely their office is registered in Göttingen 500m from the place where I work.
I might have gone there during my lunch break instead of emailing around the globe.

Good luck. The ring is actually two parts, the threaded ring and a spacer ring. Qioptiq is actually an American company.

Jac@stafford.net
9-Aug-2016, 16:49
I have a 200 Imagon that covers my 8x10 camera. It's a great lens.

Are you kidding us? Or do you simply enjoy profound vignetting on 8x10?
Can you share some examples for us, Mark?

Thank you

MMELVIS
9-Aug-2016, 18:24
You can try a Breeze V-band. I have used these when I did not have a flange.

EdSawyer
10-Aug-2016, 07:56
This is the flange/ retaining ring you need: for a compound 3:

Ebay item 231724821303

hendrik faure
10-Aug-2016, 13:28
...why did I never think about breeze v- band?
and compound 3 retaining ring at least has correct diameter and is payable.
so I ordered one and will report later (shipping to germany and passing custom highwaymen takes two weeks at least)
thanks everybody so much
h.

hendrik faure
14-Aug-2016, 00:52
8x10? Can you share some examples for us, Mark?


Imagon 200 covers at least 4x5 anyhow. This I took yesterday with green filter (have not gray unfortunately).

http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u568/hfa8/imagon%20200_zpscv9djxou.jpg
(scan)

Bob Salomon
14-Aug-2016, 04:51
Imagon 200 covers at least 4x5 anyhow. This I took yesterday with green filter (have not gray unfortunately).

http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u568/hfa8/imagon%20200_zpscv9djxou.jpg
(scan)

Yes, but now the amount of halo at the preferred aperture and print size will not necessarily be what you would expect when it is enlarged, it would be with the 250. Also the edges and corners seem to be falling off in exposure and resolution.

Mark Woods
14-Aug-2016, 07:41
Hello All, this is an image I shot with my 8"x10" V8. It's a 200mm Imagon with no disk and wide open. The scanned print is 11"x14" & the print is split toned.

Mark Woods
14-Aug-2016, 07:42
153832 I didn't complete the process for the previous post.

mdarnton
14-Aug-2016, 08:28
When I have a lens without a flange, I make a birch plywood (Baltic Birch) lens board, cut the hole slightly small for the threads, then gradually enlarge it until the lens will thread in reasonably securely. It's not necessary to have a perfect fit-- I make the holes intentionally irregular so that the threads bind in only three or four places. That's enough grip, and no more is needed. If you have too good of a fit over too much area, the lens will be too hard to get in but won't necessarily be more secure. Waxing the board where the threads bite will help, and to get it started you can make the hole slightly tapered, wider on the entrance side.

Plywood is necessary so that the board won't simply split in half and drop the lens. I have had some very heavy and expensive lenses hung this way (36cm Heliar, 11.5" Verito) for several years. If you do the job carefully, the lens' own threads will be completely uninjured, and if someday you find the right ring, you can use it.

My question would be if there's enough space around that shutter to go into most Graflex cameras' recessed fronts.

Daniel Unkefer
21-Aug-2016, 10:29
My Barrel Mounted Imagon Collection:
I bought a number of #3 rings brand new last year from Midwest Photo Exchange.
They had dozens of them at the time.

https://c7.staticflickr.com/2/1475/24905205950_cd2eefc428_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DWMG3A)2016-02-22 16.49.40 (https://flic.kr/p/DWMG3A) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

plaubel
22-Aug-2016, 22:59
I'm sure that the Rodenstock manual of my 200mm Imagon in barrel says "designed for 9x12cm", but my Imagon looks well on 5x7", too.

It's a later version then yours, Hendrik.
It came with an adapter for connecting the barrel with a shutter out of an 180mm Mamiya 6x7 lens.

Ritchie

Bob Salomon
23-Aug-2016, 03:34
I'm sure that the Rodenstock manual of my 200mm Imagon in barrel says "designed for 9x12cm", but my Imagon looks well on 5x7", too.

It's a later version then yours, Hendrik.
It came with an adapter for connecting the barrel with a shutter out of an 180mm Mamiya 6x7 lens.

Ritchie

That adaptation was originally made and sold by Zorkendorfer. Then, later on, it became a Rodenstock branded adapter. Which one do you have?

plaubel
23-Aug-2016, 10:19
Hi, Bob,

my version is a "Zörk Tubus", so it should be a Zörkendorfer.
I have no experience with my Imagon and medium format sizes, I only use it for 9x12cm, 4x5", 5x7".

By the way, let's have a look at the original manual, where Rodenstock sayed:

"The useful angle of the Imagon is 40 degrees.
So you can use the 200mm Imagon up to 9x12 cm (and the 300mm up to 13x18cm)".

Two sentences later, they name the option of using on 6x6cm, too, especially Rollei SL66 and Mamiya RB 67.

The 200mm Imagon is definitely designed for 9x12cm.

In general, , German lens designers have been very carefully with the format size, so often you can step up one size, of course depending on your demands, and ratio..

Best,
Ritchie

Bob Salomon
23-Aug-2016, 10:24
Hi, Bob,

my version is a "Zörk Tubus", so it should be a Zörkendorfer.
I have no experience with my Imagon and mdium format sizes, I only use it for 9x12cm, 4x5", 5x7".

By the way, let's have a look at the original manual, where Rodenstock sayed:

"The useful angle of the Imagon is 40 degrees.
So you can use the 200mm Imagon up to 9x12 cm (and the 300mm up to 13x18cm)".

Two sentences later, they name the option of using on 6x6cm, too, especially Rollei SL66 and Mamiya RB 67.

The 200mm Imagon is definitely designed for 9x12cm.

In general, , German lens designers have been very carefully with the format size, so often you can step up one size, of course depending on your demands, and ratio..

Best,
Ritchie

The problem isn't coverage. The problem is the amount of halo at the desired aperture at the desired magnification. Many people prefer the effect at 7.7 with the second disk fully open. But when you then use the 200 on 45 that degree of halo will be different at the same magnification as it would be on ,edium format. But the halo from the 250 at that setting and disk and magnification will be the same as the 200 on medium format. And, technically, the 120 and 150 Imagons were actually made for medium format up to 66/67.
Rodenstock had discontinued Imagons shorter then 200 or longer then 300 sometime before 1986 when we became the Rodenstock distributor. Some years before that a German portrait/wedding photographer named Bernhard Schmactenburg went to the Rodenstock factory and negotiated a deal where he would buy entire production runs of the 120 and 150 which would then be only sold and distributed by Schmactenburg. He also went to Prontor Werke and arranged for a special version of the Prontor Professional shutter with unique controls that he would then mount those Imagons into for use on Hasselblad C and EL cameras as well as his own focusing helical system and adapter mounts and tubes for other MF and 35mm cameras. Originally, in the USA the Schmactenburg system was only sold through a portrait studio in Texas. After a few years Rodenstock then asked us to take over the distribution of those special lenses so we then did so with Schmactenburg up to about 1996 when we transferred the Rollei MF distribution to Samsung who, at that time, owned the Rollei factory.

plaubel
23-Aug-2016, 10:54
The problem isn't coverage. The problem is the amount of halo at the desired aperture at the desired magnification.

Missing a 250mm Imagon, I can't compare both, but I am sure that you are right.
And, in saying "designed for 9x12 cm", I trust in Rodenstock, too :-)

Ritchie

Neal Chaves
23-Aug-2016, 15:48
Henrik,
I sent you a PM. I think I have just what you need, ready to go.
Neal

hendrik faure
27-Aug-2016, 10:01
Are you kidding us? Or do you simply enjoy profound vignetting on 8x10?
Can you share some examples for us, Mark?

Thank you

http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u568/hfa8/imagon%20cat_zpsjbyh45r0.jpg

200mm Imagon, portrait distance, no movements, 8x10 film, uncroped V750 scan

Mark Woods
27-Aug-2016, 13:58
As I mentioned above, the 200 Imagon covers 8x10. I never tried it on the 11x14 I had, but that would probably be pushing it. ;-)

Jac@stafford.net
28-Aug-2016, 06:43
Thank you, Hendrik, however you have considerable bellows extension there, no?
If you do, then the actual focal length is considerably longer than 200mm.

Dan Fromm
28-Aug-2016, 08:01
Thank you, Hendrik, however you have considerable bellows extension there, no?
If you do, then the actual focal length is considerably longer than 200mm.

Jac, that's a fair comment that reflects a common misconception, viz., that focal length varies with extension. Focal length is what it is. The lens' image circle varies with magnification (= varies with extension). There was a discussion of that here, see post # 3 in http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?67361-Calculating-lens-coverage

I have a different criticism of Hedrik's claim that the lens covers 8x10. As he shot it, there's no doubt that it illuminates 8x10. His subject has no detail, nothing at all, really, towards the edges. We can't evaluate how well the lens renders fine detail near the edges of 8x10 as he shot it. We can't, therefore, determine whether it covers 8x10 as he shot it.

Too many of the shots posted elsewhere to make the point that a lens covers a format suffer from a lack of fine detail in the subject towards the edges.

hendrik faure
28-Aug-2016, 11:14
Thank you, Hendrik, however you have considerable bellows extension there, no?
If you do, then the actual focal length is considerably longer than 200mm.
I must admit this was a small cat and a portrait distance of 16 inch, bellow extension about 16 inch too.
Landscape on 8x10 I will try later

Mark Woods
28-Aug-2016, 14:15
I shot my Pavilion of Three Friends at near infinity, and the coverage was complete. I don't think any Imagon renders fine detail very well & that's the point of the lens. It's a Pictorialist Lens.

Mark Woods
28-Aug-2016, 14:24
Near infinity on an 8x10 camera.

europanorama
14-Oct-2019, 13:05
The problem isn't coverage. The problem is the amount of halo at the desired aperture at the desired magnification. Many people prefer the effect at 7.7 with the second disk fully open. But when you then use the 200 on 45 that degree of halo will be different at the same magnification as it would be on ,edium format. But the halo from the 250 at that setting and disk and magnification will be the same as the 200 on medium format. And, technically, the 120 and 150 Imagons were actually made for medium format up to 66/67.
Rodenstock had discontinued Imagons shorter then 200 or longer then 300 sometime before 1986 when we became the Rodenstock distributor. Some years before that a German portrait/wedding photographer named Bernhard Schmactenburg went to the Rodenstock factory and negotiated a deal where he would buy entire production runs of the 120 and 150 which would then be only sold and distributed by Schmactenburg. He also went to Prontor Werke and arranged for a special version of the Prontor Professional shutter with unique controls that he would then mount those Imagons into for use on Hasselblad C and EL cameras as well as his own focusing helical system and adapter mounts and tubes for other MF and 35mm cameras. Originally, in the USA the Schmactenburg system was only sold through a portrait studio in Texas. After a few years Rodenstock then asked us to take over the distribution of those special lenses so we then did so with Schmactenburg up to about 1996 when we transferred the Rollei MF distribution to Samsung who, at that time, owned the Rollei factory.
Burghard Schmachtenburg
I must have still some prospectus
i have the Zörkendörfer(Zoerkendörfer)200 with HB-V/F and one more helicoid for P67.and multifocus with Symmar 150 RZ67.
Zoerk was a Mamiya -man.

Bob Salomon
14-Oct-2019, 14:29
Burghard Schmachtenburg
I must have still some prospectus
i have the Zörkendörfer(Zoerkendörfer)200 with HB-V/F and one more helicoid for P67.and multifocus with Symmar 150 RZ67.
Zoerk was a Mamiya -man.

He was a MAMIYA man but then he was producing stuff like the Imagon adaptors, the Mini and the Macro Schnecker systems on his own under his name.

When Burghard made his system he got an exclusive from Rodenstock for the 120, 150 and 200mm Imagons and, at that point, he became Zorks competitor. Rodenstock was giving Burghard a good size corner of their Photokina booth.

Bob Salomon
14-Oct-2019, 14:30
I shot my Pavilion of Three Friends at near infinity, and the coverage was complete. I don't think any Imagon renders fine detail very well & that's the point of the lens. It's a Pictorialist Lens.

They do a pretty good result with the smallest disk with all peripheral holes closed.

europanorama
14-Oct-2019, 14:53
He was a MAMIYA man but then he was producing stuff like the Imagon adaptors, the Mini and the Macro Schnecker systems on his own under his name.

When Burghard made his system he got an exclusive from Rodenstock for the 120, 150 and 200mm Imagons and, at that point, he became Zorks competitor. Rodenstock was giving Burghard a good size corner of their Photokina booth.
Schmachtenburg of Solingen(famous german town for knives)

Minimacro - Maximacro given up(dont know why):

Bob i have a big problem now or two:
cannot find the Rodenstock-prospectus anymore. they are on different HDDs.

1. need Imagon-informations now. yes i have seen someone selling prospectus or downloads.

2. had my 200mm Zoerk-imagon disassembled for dustcleaning-first image. dont know where to mount the lens. Many thanks
196534
196535

Bob Salomon
14-Oct-2019, 18:23
Schmachtenburg of Solingen(famous german town for knives)

Minimacro - Maximacro given up(dont know why):

Bob i have a big problem now or two:
cannot find the Rodenstock-prospectus anymore. they are on different HDDs.

1. need Imagon-informations now. yes i have seen someone selling prospectus or downloads.

2. had my 200mm Zoerk-imagon disassembled for dustcleaning-first image. dont know where to mount the lens. Many thanks
196534
196535

Mini Macro and the larger Maxi Macro is Hervig’s system for using enlarging lenses on a tilt/swing mount for extreme sharpness using enlarging lenses by using Scheimpflug movements, handheld, with 35mm or DSLR cameras and medium format cameras.

The Imagon adapter set has a tapered tube at the front end. You unscrew the front ring from your Imagon and screw it into the front of that tapered tube. You unscrew the glass from the back of your Imagon and that screws into the rear of that tapered tube. The tapered tube then screws into the front of the focus mount and that screws into the tube that accepts the camera adapter.

What else?

B.S.Kumar
14-Oct-2019, 19:07
Michael, please look at this photo:

https://i.postimg.cc/MH70F6DW/Rodenstock-Zork-Imagon-Focusing-Mount-03.jpg

The Imagon lens cell 1 screws into the base of the tapered tube 2.
This assembly is screwed into the focusing mount 3.
One of the discs 4 is fitted to the the top of tube 2.
The ND filter 5 fits on disc 4.
Finally, hood 6 fits on top.

The assembled lens looks like this:
https://i.postimg.cc/RFy9RzyJ/Rodenstock-Zork-Imagon-Focusing-Mount-02.jpg

The same assembly can be used with the Pentax 67 mount as well, though I sent you an extra tapered tube 2 with it.

Kumar

Bob Salomon
14-Oct-2019, 19:45
Michael, please look at this photo:

https://i.postimg.cc/MH70F6DW/Rodenstock-Zork-Imagon-Focusing-Mount-03.jpg

The Imagon lens cell 1 screws into the base of the tapered tube 2.
This assembly is screwed into the focusing mount 3.
One of the discs 4 is fitted to the the top of tube 2.
The ND filter 5 fits on disc 4.
Finally, hood 6 fits on top.

The assembled lens looks like this:
https://i.postimg.cc/RFy9RzyJ/Rodenstock-Zork-Imagon-Focusing-Mount-02.jpg

The same assembly can be used with the Pentax 67 mount as well, though I sent you an extra tapered tube 2 with it.

Kumar

Almost, you have to put the front ring from the Imagon onto the front of the lens tube, otherwise the disks, filter and hood can not be mounted.

B.S.Kumar
14-Oct-2019, 20:05
Almost, you have to put the front ring from the Imagon onto the front of the lens tube, otherwise the disks, filter and hood can not be mounted.

Bob, the "front ring" that is supplied with the Imagon lens for using with Copal 3 shutters is built into the tapered tube 2. Please see the photo carefully. You'll see that the metal springs that hold the disc are in place.

Kumar

Bob Salomon
14-Oct-2019, 20:22
Bob, the "front ring" that is supplied with the Imagon lens for using with Copal 3 shutters is built into the tapered tube 2. Please see the photo carefully. You'll see that the metal springs that hold the disc are in place.

Kumar

It is, but it has to be unscrewed to be mounted onto the front ring from Burghard. The glass is unscrewed from the lens tube and screwed into the back side of that front ring.
The barrel that came with the Imagon is not used.

B.S.Kumar
14-Oct-2019, 20:46
I have no idea of the Burghard Schmachtenburg adapter, not having seen one. I was simply answering Michael's question as to how to re-assemble the Hasselblad mount Imagon lens that he bought from me.

Kumar

Bob Salomon
14-Oct-2019, 21:01
I have no idea of the Burghard Schmachtenburg adapter, not having seen one. I was simply answering Michael's question as to how to re-assemble the Hasselblad mount Imagon lens that he bought from me.

Kumar

His assemble the same way.

europanorama
15-Oct-2019, 05:28
yesterday was a heavy day. had finally found out how to mount the lens. but have still no clues where the copal 3 will go. it needs M58-0.75mm thread. maybe someone could show a setup. I didnt find Zoerk-instructions till now. maybe i should contact him.
I am thinking about adapters for FF/APS-c. also tilt. hartbleilens and a 2x converter. HB-P2 and macro-tilt.
Since i will get Multifocus-tilt-system with symmar 150(maybe it has copal 3?) with RZ67-mount. i could use the imagon on a future RZ67.
and Kumar sold me also a second P67-imagon-tube by Zoerk. so i will have HB-V/F, P67 and Mamyia RZ67 mount. only P6 is lacking.
Now open question i asked hartbleilens: how much extension has his tilt- adapter. want to know the distance-limit.

where are the links to rodenstock-specifications again bob?

B.S.Kumar
15-Oct-2019, 05:43
Both these focusing mounts have the proper M58 x 0.75mm threads for a Copal 3 shutter. Remove the retaining ring and spacer from the Copal 3 shutter and screw it on to the mount (without the tapered tube). To use the Imagon lens like a regular view camera lens, the lens goes into the back of the shutter, while the front ring (the part with the Rodenstock name, and 250mm written on it) goes into the front of the shutter, and then the disc, ND filter and hood, in that order. I do not recollect if the front ring can be removed from this particular tapered tube. If it can't, and you want the ring, let me know. I have a spare.

Kumar

europanorama
15-Oct-2019, 06:14
means when one wants to mount the copal 3 for HB and other cams-use register will be altered and infinity not reached. so a different helicoid-solution must be found. with 32mm fewer lenght. 32mm=copal 3-overall thickness.
I was trying out a DIY-solution-combination of helicoids, tubes, freelensing, with all kind of lenses. also p6-bellows used.
would like Wiese to convert P6-bellows to M65-system so it is for multiuse. he can transform it to a cheap shift-tilt-bellows.
But i would opt for the more elegant perfect universal novoflex-system. Balcast. with shift/tilt. at larger magnification( larger than 1:1) with macrolens i recognized abberations with DSRL. we will see if also with a newer zeiss Luminar 100.