View Full Version : Eversmart Pro and Mac G5 Tower
I've been having trouble with the old G4 (OS 9.2) that came with my Eversmart Pro scanner, it runs quite slowly ofttimes, which greatly increases scanning time.
A G5 tower with OS 10.4.2 (Tiger) was available for $100 so I bought it, hoping to use my existing Oxygen software on a newer, more powerful computer.
I'm currently running Oxygen 3.1.0 on the G4.
Right away, the first thing is to get a SCSI/FW adapter, as the G5 uses Firewire.
Is there anything else I need to know, or do?
Thanks in advance.
Christopher Barrett
3-Aug-2016, 14:08
Ari, I think I've got a Ratoc scsi firewire adapter in the basement. I'll have a look. I gave up on it and put a scsi card in my G5 for the Howtek. You may also want to go that route. Oh, also, Aztek sells the scsi USB adapter, which works nicely on my modern PC.
Cheers, Christopher; thank you.
You're right, I may end up installing the SCSI card in the G5, it'd be nice to have that FW, though.
I'll also have a look at Aztek's site for the USB adapter, that sounds interesting, too.
Do you, or does anyone else, know if the USB/SCSI adapter would work as well as the Firewire adapter on a Mac? Or am I barking up the wrong tree?
Thank you.
Ari,
Your Eversmart Pro does not run with Oxygen software, but with the Eversmart Scanning application 3.1. This software will only run on MAC OS 9.2.2, not with OS X.
You may be able to run OS 9.2 with your G5 tower, but the processing speed will still be limited by the ***286 processor on the Eversmart Pro board. In short, any G4 tower with processor speed of 450 MHz or faster will scan as fast as possible.
You could perhaps upgrade your Evermsmart Pro to Pro II status, which would allow you to use Oxygen software with MAC OS X. But until you do, you are stuck with OS 9.2.2.
Sandy
I've been having trouble with the old G4 (OS 9.2) that came with my Eversmart Pro scanner, it runs quite slowly ofttimes, which greatly increases scanning time.
A G5 tower with OS 10.4.2 (Tiger) was available for $100 so I bought it, hoping to use my existing Oxygen software on a newer, more powerful computer.
I'm currently running Oxygen 3.1.0 on the G4.
Right away, the first thing is to get a SCSI/FW adapter, as the G5 uses Firewire.
Is there anything else I need to know, or do?
Thanks in advance.
Hi Sandy,
I was afraid of this sort of post; I had consulted the chart, attached below, but failed to account for the ES Pro board.
I thought it would be only software-dependent, figuring I'd be ok with Oxygen 3.1.0
Thanks for the information, I'm going to contact Michael Streeter at Genesis to get an idea of the cost of the upgrade.
https://c7.staticflickr.com/9/8340/28645066022_f38ab54504_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/KDgs9E)Oxygen-MacOS_compatibility Sheet1 (https://flic.kr/p/KDgs9E)
Peter De Smidt
3-Aug-2016, 14:56
Ari, is your ram maxed out? I use a G4 Sawtooth to run my Cezanne. Increasing the memory made a huge difference with scanning speed.
I'll check, Peter but I think yes, it's maxed out. Not sure which G4 I have, though.
The problem with my G4 is the previous owner had so much extraneous stuff on the computer, that's what's slowing it down.
I hesitate to clean up the computer for fear of removing something important (scanner-related), and not having a back-up (the G5 was going to be that back-up).
Christopher Barrett
3-Aug-2016, 15:12
You could throw in a new drive and build a system around that. Maybe then you can get it running better without impacting your existing system.
You could throw in a new drive and build a system around that. Maybe then you can get it running better without impacting your existing system.
Looks like that's the way to go, thanks Christopher.
Here's the message from Michael at Genesis, Sandy was bang-on:
The Pro scanner connects via SCSI. It does not utilize USB. An Eversmart Pro scanner is limited to running Eversmart Scanning Solutions 3.x on a Mac with SCSI support with OS 9.2.x. There is an option to upgrade the Pro to a Pro II, which will allow you to use a SCSI to FireWire converter. This upgrade will also allow you to connect to a PPC or Intel based Mac running OSX 10.5.x or OSX 10.6.x. The software will be the latest version of Oxygen Scan.
The cost of the upgrade is $2,500.00 + freight. The upgrade includes the part(s) to convert the scanner from a Pro to a Pro II, the FireWire kit and the latest version of Oxygen Scan software. Not all Pro scanners can be upgraded from a Pro to a Pro II. I will need the serial number of the scanner to determine if it is possible.
The Pro II upgrade with newest software on an Intel Mac will increase the throughput speed around 50% over a Pro running on an older Mac with OS 9.2.
My serial number indicates that my scanner cannot be upgraded to a Pro II.
Anyone need a G5 tower? Runs good. :)
Peter De Smidt
3-Aug-2016, 15:34
Perhaps use an ssd drive from other world computing for you system drve.
After I check the RAM, I'll get an SSD drive then try to re-install Oxygen on the new drive. Once it's confirmed that everything works, I can remove the old drive.
I forgot all about these G4 computers, so the system, and modifying it, is new to me; I'm used to replacing components on laptops.
Thanks all.
Ari, I have a very similar setup as you know and just so I can compare, how slow are your scans?
My scans are even slower if anything else (network, usb, etc) is happening in the background.
After I check the RAM, I'll get an SSD drive then try to re-install Oxygen on the new drive. Once it's confirmed that everything works, I can remove the old drive.
I forgot all about these G4 computers, so the system, and modifying it, is new to me; I'm used to replacing components on laptops.
Thanks all.
Ari,
I scanned with a G4 running OS 9.2.2 with the Eversmart Pro and was very satisfied. You can always check out the capability of your G4 by going to the Apple menu (far left ) and clicking on About this Mac.
In my opinion the most important thing for you to do is find a fast option for moving your scanned files from the G4 to the machine you use to process images. In my opinion one of the best options is to install a USB 2 card in your G4. USB 2 is way faster than the original USB 1 installed on the G4 and you can save even fairly big files to it fairly quickly. Then, you can use an external USB 2 hard drive to save your files and move to another computer.
My opinion is that you won't gain much, if anything, with an SSD drive. Better to just clean out the hard drive of your G4 of programs and files you will not be using.
For what it is worth, I am still using a MAC G4 running OS 10.3.9 for scanning with a Howtek 7500 drum scanner. As I recall, my G4 is a Quicksilver model with processor speed of about 500 MHz. I installed a USB 2 card in the G4 which allows me to move files to my much faster MAC PRO units that are used for image processing.
Of greater importance to image quality is your method of scanning and processing images with an 8 bit machine. What I did with the Eversmart Pro in scanning B&W negatives was to always set my histograms to not clip anything, but otherwise adjust the image as closely as possible to what I wanted. Then, immediately on opening the image file in Photoshop I would change the Mode to 16 bit, before doing any adjustments. Avoid doing any adjustments at all in low bit Mode as you can easily posterize the file. Once you change to 16 bit you have almost as much latitude in adjusting the file as with original high bit files.
If you have any questions please ask. I used the G4 with the Eversmart Pro for a bunch of years and am about as familiar with the options as anyone you will run into.
Best,
Sandy
Ari, I have a very similar setup as you know and just so I can compare, how slow are your scans?
My scans are even slower if anything else (network, usb, etc) is happening in the background.
You really should use the G4 as a dedicated machine for scanning. Max out the RAM, install a USB 2 drive for file transfer, and close all other programs when scanning.
And don't touch anything when scanning. OS 9.2.2 is very temperamental and even an inadvertent key stroke may cause it to crash.
Sandy
Ari, I have a very similar setup as you know and just so I can compare, how slow are your scans?
My scans are even slower if anything else (network, usb, etc) is happening in the background.
Pali, an 8x10 scanned at 2000 dpi takes about 15 minutes, which I suppose is ok. But the startup time for Oxygen is very slow, the computer has lots of extras (even internet!) that are useless.
Ari,
I scanned with a G4 running OS 9.2.2 with the Eversmart Pro and was very satisfied. You can always check out the capability of your G4 by going to the Apple menu (far left ) and clicking on About this Mac.
In my opinion the most important thing for you to do is find a fast option for moving your scanned files from the G4 to the machine you use to process images. In my opinion one of the best options is to install a USB 2 card in your G4. USB 2 is way faster than the original USB 1 installed on the G4 and you can save even fairly big files to it fairly quickly. Then, you can use an external USB 2 hard drive to save your files and move to another computer.
My opinion is that you won't gain much, if anything, with an SSD drive. Better to just clean out the hard drive of your G4 of programs and files you will not be using.
For what it is worth, I am still using a MAC G4 running OS 10.3.9 for scanning with a Howtek 7500 drum scanner. As I recall, my G4 is a Quicksilver model with processor speed of about 500 MHz. I installed a USB 2 card in the G4 which allows me to move files to my much faster MAC PRO units that are used for image processing.
Of greater importance to image quality is your method of scanning and processing images with an 8 bit machine. What I did with the Eversmart Pro in scanning B&W negatives was to always set my histograms to not clip anything, but otherwise adjust the image as closely as possible to what I wanted. Then, immediately on opening the image file in Photoshop I would change the Mode to 16 bit, before doing any adjustments. Avoid doing any adjustments at all in low bit Mode as you can easily posterize the file. Once you change to 16 bit you have almost as much latitude in adjusting the file as with original high bit files.
If you have any questions please ask. I used the G4 with the Eversmart Pro for a bunch of years and am about as familiar with the options as anyone you will run into.
Best,
Sandy
Sandy,
I love the machine and the system, it's great. The computer definitely needs some freshening up, hence my purchase of a clean G5.
Thank you for your kind offer, I'll definitely ask any questions here when any trouble arises.
Pali, an 8x10 scanned at 2000 dpi takes about 15 minutes, which I suppose is ok. But the startup time for Oxygen is very slow, the computer has lots of extras (even internet!) that are useless.
That sounds bizzare Ari. Both my computer and the software start within a total minute or two from completely shutdown state. My machine has no other software other than Eversmart Scan and a basic FTP client to move files to my primary computer.
Pali
Peter De Smidt
3-Aug-2016, 17:48
I agree with Sandy about the benefits of a USB II card. I use one in my G4.
That sounds bizzare Ari. Both my computer and the software start within a total minute or two from completely shutdown state. My machine has no other software other than Eversmart Scan and a basic FTP client to move files to my primary computer.
Pali
Yes, it's slow; I'd send you a video of it starting up, but that would be quite a boring show. With no twist ending. :)
Since I can't do much of anything until tomorrow, I'm going to see about getting OS 9.2.2 onto the G5 and booting up from that instead of with Tiger.
I'll also clean up the HD on the G4.
Tomorrow, I'll check the RAM and get a USB 2.0 drive for the G4.
I made a copy of all the Oxygen files, in case anything goes awry.
Peter De Smidt
3-Aug-2016, 19:21
Make sure that OS9 can see a USB2 drive. I seem to remember needing to upgrade to OS10 for that to happen, but I'm not an old Mac expert by any means.
B.S.Kumar
3-Aug-2016, 19:22
Ari,
I think I mentioned it to you earlier in a mail, and I've repeated it often on the forum:
To get optimum performance while scanning with a Kodak/Creo scanner on a G4/G5 it is essential to dedicate the computer to the scanner. That means removing every unnecessary program, no internet, no network, no Photoshop. Remove everything you can. Stop programs from running in the background. Transfer files via USB. It takes time, but being an LF photographer, I'm sure you know that.
Kumar
Kumar,
Thank you; I would have cleaned the computer long ago, but I wasn't sure what harm might be done, I might inadvertently delete something important.
The scanner and the computer were working (albeit slowly), so I didn't want to fix something that wasn't broken.
But last night I spent a long time scanning film that shouldn't have taken so long to do. The G5 was available and I took it.
I'm now running OS 9.2.2 on the G5, though it's not used as the startup disk.
Getting a SCSI card to see if hooking up the scanner will work on the G5, and if the scanner and computer will communicate.
The possibility of starting from a clean computer is more appealing than deleting files off an old computer.
While I install software on the G5, I'm not changing anything on the G4, it scans and runs as before.
Make sure that OS9 can see a USB2 drive. I seem to remember needing to upgrade to OS10 for that to happen, but I'm not an old Mac expert by any means.
Peter, from what I've read online, USB 2.0 will work with OS 9, it will simply read as USB 1.1.
Thanks for the suggestion.
B.S.Kumar
3-Aug-2016, 20:00
Ari,
So long as you have the original software installation disks for 9.2.2, there is no problem reformatting the disk. In fact, you could remove the existing disk and put in an empty disk that you can test. If the scanner works well, great. Otherwise, not much lost, except a little time. Having dual boot on the G5 will add to your complications. The scanners are finicky, and SCSI needs everything just so. Also, if 9.2 sees USB 2 as USB 1.1, there is probably not much advantage, and again, you are adding extra hardware.
Kumar
Good advice, Kumar; thank you.
I'll first see if simply adding a SCSI card to the G5, then installing the software, will work.
The G5 runs very quickly and smoothly, so I'd like to try and make that work.
It will also allow me a much wider range of monitors to use, which I'd find helpful, since the G4's screen is small and lacking in detail.
Even an old Dell monitor would be a huge improvement for precise placement of the crosshairs when selecting white/black points.
B.S.Kumar
3-Aug-2016, 20:15
Don't get a fancy monitor for the G5. Something built around that time would reduce hardware compatibility issues.
Kumar
Don't get a fancy monitor for the G5. Something built around that time would reduce hardware compatibility issues.
Kumar
No, of course not. My own Dell is from 2004, it works perfectly with the G5, so I'd look into getting another just like it.
Update:
To Peter: The G4's RAM is maxed out, and the HD has lots of space left on its 80Gb capacity, so I'm not sure why the slow scan speeds.
Also, I have a Power Mac G4 1.25 DP (MDD version), which is middle-of-the-pack for these units.
The Eversmart Pro won't work (probably) with the G5.
I can buy a SCSI card for the computer, but the card's driver is not really compatible with OS 9.2; that would mean finding a driver that may work, but it's not an ideal configuration; prone to crashing and mysterious stoppages.
So I'm going to forget the G5 idea for now, get a new hard drive for the G4, and install OS 9.2 and the Eversmart software.
Once I can confirm that everything works as before, I'll remove the existing HD and keep it as a backup.
Thanks for everyone's suggestions and help!
Peter De Smidt
4-Aug-2016, 11:05
I would seriously consider one of these: https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/ssd/owc/power-mac-g4/2002-2004
Btw., your computer is way more powerful than my Sawtooth 450mhz. You're living the dream! :)
I would seriously consider one of these: https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/ssd/owc/power-mac-g4/2002-2004
Btw., your computer is way more powerful than my Sawtooth 450mhz. You're living the dream! :)
Peter,
Those mirrored drives are among the fastest of the G4s, but some of them do not support OS 9.2.2. I have a very late model MDD model that I keep in reserve as a back-up for scanning with the Howtek in OS 10.3.9, and it will not load OS 9.2.2.
Sandy
I would seriously consider one of these: https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/ssd/owc/power-mac-g4/2002-2004
Btw., your computer is way more powerful than my Sawtooth 450mhz. You're living the dream! :)
After comparing other models on the MacSales site, I agree! :) But I still find it puzzling that it works so slowly. Maybe the insides aren't 100%.
Thanks for the link, I might just get the 60GB version.
Peter,
Those mirrored drives are among the fastest of the G4s, but some of them do not support OS 9.2.2. I have a very late model MDD model that I keep in reserve as a back-up for scanning with the Howtek in OS 10.3.9, and it will not load OS 9.2.2.
Sandy
Sandy, I consulted with a sales rep at Mac Sales who assured me that the SSD would work with any computer/OS that is compatible with SSD technology, which includes OS 9.2.
Thanks for pointing that out.
coisasdavida
5-Aug-2016, 19:23
After comparing other models on the MacSales site, I agree! :) But I still find it puzzling that it works so slowly.
From my experience, MDDs don't last as long as Quicksilvers and Digital Audios.
From my experience, MDDs don't last as long as Quicksilvers and Digital Audios.
Guilherme,
What was the problem with yours?
Evanjoe610
6-Aug-2016, 04:54
Sandy & Ari,
I have OS 9.2.2 loaded on my Three (3) G4 MMD DUal Processors. No problem. I also have all maxed out with the maximum RAM. Check to see how old your HD is, as the HD might be why you are slow in your scanning.
I purchased several of the older PATA refurbished HD (200 GB) strictly as backup if my Ratoc FRS1X dies....
Hi Evan,
Thanks, good to know; also, I checked a Mac website, it said that the maximum RAM on the MDD is 2Gb, but that OS 9.2 only recognizes 1.5Gb of that.
So my RAM is already maxed out, and I ordered the SSD that Peter recommended; I'm sure that'll do the trick for my lagging computer.
coisasdavida
6-Aug-2016, 11:02
Guilherme,
What was the problem with yours?
Not just mine, PSU.
coisasdavida
6-Aug-2016, 11:14
To check about 9.2.2 on a MDD I would go to everymac.com and check by model #. There a couple models for OSX only.
AFAIK G5s can't boot OS9, classic mode yes, boot no. SCSI cards for them are rare, since the PCI they have is different from G3s and G4s. 2906s or 2930s may fit but won't work. Without a Ratoc adapter, G5s are pretty useless nowadays, well, there is a Debian distro for PPC that will turn it into a pretty modern everyday use computer, but that is another story. At least to us photographers, I believe G3s and G4s are mose useful driving old hardware.
I bought the MDD thinking it would solve me a problem too, turns out from a beige G3 to the MDD, the Cezanne scan times are the same, probably limited by the SCSI speed. Your scanner is probably limited by firewire speed, so from a B&W G3 to a MDD it should be mostly the same too. B&W G3s, Digital Audios, Quicksilvers are the most reliable 20 years later. There was post a while ago on xlr8yourmac about this.
coisasdavida
6-Aug-2016, 11:26
Sorry, one more post, two thoughts occurred to me:
First, check Startup Disk on Control Panel. Sometimes it goes to Network Disk... and it waits for a network connection to boot, it times out and then boots from the internal HD. Or it could be just not assigned to anything, making it hang a bit.
If during boot it loads a bunch of icons on the bottom of the first screen it means you have a bunch of extensions. You could move some that look unnecessary to the Disabled Extensions folder and restart and see if you a faster boot and a working scanner. Also look at the Startup Items folder inside System Folder, those things will load as you boot, you could post a list of what is in there here for us to see.
I understand you fear, but a fresh install of system and scanner software is always easier and better (if it works).
Hi Evan,
Thanks, good to know; also, I checked a Mac website, it said that the maximum RAM on the MDD is 2Gb, but that OS 9.2 only recognizes 1.5Gb of that.
So my RAM is already maxed out, and I ordered the SSD that Peter recommended; I'm sure that'll do the trick for my lagging computer.
Ari,
Just for the record, scanning at high resolution with a drum scanner, or with a machine like the Eversmart Pro, which essentially scans like lawn mower by "scanning in rows and then stitching" is very time consuming. It may turn out that what you think is slow is in fact quite normal and there may in fact be nothing you can do to make the scanning go faster.
As I recall, scanning a 5X7" negatives on the Eversmart Pro at 3175 ppi took the better part of an hour, perhaps even more depending on how how the negative was positioned relative to the scan direction.
Try to remember, the actual scan speed is limited by the speed of the processor on the Eversmart Pro board, and as memory recalls, that is a 286 Intell processor that was used in PCs in the 1980s.
Sandy
To check about 9.2.2 on a MDD I would go to everymac.com and check by model #. There a couple models for OSX only.
AFAIK G5s can't boot OS9, classic mode yes, boot no. SCSI cards for them are rare, since the PCI they have is different from G3s and G4s. 2906s or 2930s may fit but won't work. Without a Ratoc adapter, G5s are pretty useless nowadays, well, there is a Debian distro for PPC that will turn it into a pretty modern everyday use computer, but that is another story. At least to us photographers, I believe G3s and G4s are mose useful driving old hardware.
I bought the MDD thinking it would solve me a problem too, turns out from a beige G3 to the MDD, the Cezanne scan times are the same, probably limited by the SCSI speed. Your scanner is probably limited by firewire speed, so from a B&W G3 to a MDD it should be mostly the same too. B&W G3s, Digital Audios, Quicksilvers are the most reliable 20 years later. There was post a while ago on xlr8yourmac about this.
Understood; I won't be trying anything more with the G5 even though I got OS 9.2 to work on it. The SCSI implications are not worth pursuing.
And if I can't sell my G5, I'll keep it stored until I can use it. The IQsmart scanner can use the G5 and I may upgrade to that next year or later.
Sorry, one more post, two thoughts occurred to me:
First, check Startup Disk on Control Panel. Sometimes it goes to Network Disk... and it waits for a network connection to boot, it times out and then boots from the internal HD. Or it could be just not assigned to anything, making it hang a bit.
If during boot it loads a bunch of icons on the bottom of the first screen it means you have a bunch of extensions. You could move some that look unnecessary to the Disabled Extensions folder and restart and see if you a faster boot and a working scanner. Also look at the Startup Items folder inside System Folder, those things will load as you boot, you could post a list of what is in there here for us to see.
I understand you fear, but a fresh install of system and scanner software is always easier and better (if it works).
Good advice, thanks. I'll have a look at those points and make any corrections.
And when the new SSD arrives, I'll do a clean install of OS9 and the ES software.
Ari,
Just for the record, scanning at high resolution with a drum scanner, or with a machine like the Eversmart Pro, which essentially scans like lawn mower by "scanning in rows and then stitching" is very time consuming. It may turn out that what you think is slow is in fact quite normal and there may in fact be nothing you can do to make the scanning go faster.
As I recall, scanning a 5X7" negatives on the Eversmart Pro at 3175 ppi took the better part of an hour, perhaps even more depending on how how the negative was positioned relative to the scan direction.
Try to remember, the actual scan speed is limited by the speed of the processor on the Eversmart Pro board, and as memory recalls, that is a 286 Intell processor that was used in PCs in the 1980s.
Sandy
Hi Sandy,
The computer is giving me the most trouble; it boots slowly, and using the ES software can be laborious.
The scans do seem to take a long time, but I have no prior experience with a flatbed of this quality, so the scan times I have might be perfectly normal.
After a few days of hashing this out, I see now that the computer is not running optimally, and is slowing down the scanner software.
Thanks
Ari,
I'll make a video of mine booting up so you at least have a reference. Mine is configured on a G4 and I have no clue what hard drive it's on but I am sure I can find out if needed. I'll try to send something to you soon.
Let me know if you would like me to time some scans as well for comparison.
Regards,
Pali
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZR2-EYAgpQ
This was rather easy. Here you go Ari. Hope this helps.
Pali
Thank you, Pali; your scanner and computer seem to boot up a bit faster than mine, but not by too much.
I think the clean install and a new hard drive will help.
My computer sputters at the start, then smooths out eventually. The scanner, likewise.
After installing the new HD, I'll also run a diagnostic on the scanner, but my main issue is the computer.
Thank you, Pali; your scanner and computer seem to boot up a bit faster than mine, but not by too much.
I think the clean install and a new hard drive will help.
My computer sputters at the start, then smooths out eventually. The scanner, likewise.
After installing the new HD, I'll also run a diagnostic on the scanner, but my main issue is the computer.
If the SSD works that should make a huge difference in booting up and in starting the ES application, but it probably will not speed up scnaning since the processor on the Eversmart will still be the bottleneck in this operation.
But I am anxious to hear how installation on the SSD drives goes. I was not aware that these drives were easy to install on Mac G4s, though I use them on all of my newer Macs.
Sandy
Right now the computer seems to be the bottleneck, I understand that the scanner won't scan any faster.
Here's the video of the installation instructions: https://eshop.macsales.com/installvideos/powermac_g4_mirror_hd/
I'll of course report back once I get everything installed and set up.
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