Portrait lens - studio work

[costin.teodorovici]

Hi,

I am rather new to LF and I would appreciate your advice on one particular aspect. I am planning to shoot mostly portraits in my studio, and since this is just a hobby, most of the time I am dealing with amateur models. The camera I currently keep at the studio is a Plaubel Peco Junior with a Rodenstock Sironar 180/5.6. I don't normally have an issue shooting portraits at anywhere between 50-60mm (35mm equivalent) though often I do feel the need to get further away from the model.

What would be a good 4x5 longer focal length lens that is sharp enough but not too expensive? I think I won't care much about coatings or maximum aperture since it will mainly be used in studio and in optimal lighting conditions.

Thank you in advance!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ulophot]

I would like to reply, as one who has sweated over such issues and pored over books, tests, and forum discussions on the subject for what could be deemed an embarrassingly considerable time.
The range of answers you may receive could be mind-boggling, because there are simply too many variables; art is not mechanical engineering, though ours depends on measurable, quantifiable laws of optics, perspective, light, and so forth.
Thus, the beginning of the answer is, fairly, "It depends -- on what sort of result you are after." There are knowledgeable and talented persons here who can respond to any set of considerations you might present.
Even within the confines of the hobby studio, there are many issues to be addressed. Rather than going through them blind, let me first suggest that you provide a bit more information -- better, several representative examples of your work! -- so that those here can better assist you.
For example, it would be easy enough to simply give a focal length equivalent of an 85mm or 105 mm lens, and perhaps that is all you seek, but you hinted about getting farther back from your subject, but you didn't indicate whether you wish to include more or wish to achieve a different drawing (perspective), or how big your studio space is.
Lens design for "sharp enough" could open up it's own heated argument. I use a lens that's barely spoken of--indeed hard to find much on--and worried in times past whether I should save for one of the top, razor-sharp, super-apochromatic lenses. The reality is, for my work (primarily B&W portraiture) it is more than sharp enough and the focal length and speed are adequate. It's important to remember that even a 16x20 print from 4x5 requires about the same enlargement multiplier as a 4x6 from 35, dependent on cropping.
With that, I leave it to our far more knowledgeable associates in this forum to offer specific lens choices. Best wishes for your work, and I do hope we'll get to see some of it soon.

[costin.teodorovici]

I would like to reply, as one who has sweated over such issues and pored over books, tests, and forum discussions on the subject for what could be deemed an embarrassingly considerable time.
The range of answers you may receive could be mind-boggling, because there are simply too many variables; art is not mechanical engineering, though ours depends on measurable, quantifiable laws of optics, perspective, light, and so forth.
Thus, the beginning of the answer is, fairly, "It depends -- on what sort of result you are after." There are knowledgeable and talented persons here who can respond to any set of considerations you might present.
Even within the confines of the hobby studio, there are many issues to be addressed. Rather than going through them blind, let me first suggest that you provide a bit more information -- better, several representative examples of your work! -- so that those here can better assist you.
For example, it would be easy enough to simply give a focal length equivalent of an 85mm or 105 mm lens, and perhaps that is all you seek, but you hinted about getting farther back from your subject, but you didn't indicate whether you wish to include more or wish to achieve a different drawing (perspective), or how big your studio space is.
Lens design for "sharp enough" could open up it's own heated argument. I use a lens that's barely spoken of--indeed hard to find much on--and worried in times past whether I should save for one of the top, razor-sharp, super-apochromatic lenses. The reality is, for my work (primarily B&W portraiture) it is more than sharp enough and the focal length and speed are adequate. It's important to remember that even a 16x20 print from 4x5 requires about the same enlargement multiplier as a 4x6 from 35, dependent on cropping.
With that, I leave it to our far more knowledgeable associates in this forum to offer specific lens choices. Best wishes for your work, and I do hope we'll get to see some of it soon.

Many thanks for takig the time to look into the issue - this is much appreciated. Truth is should have given more details to begin with, but I was anxious to get some views and posted from my iphone while being dragged through an Ikea shop by the Mrs.

My main purpose is indeed that of being able to get further away from my subject while keeping more or less the same close-up framing. This has to do with giving the subject more space and avoid what they may percieve as an invasion of their private space. Most of the time it may be that I had just met my model in person and what I learnt from working with smaller formats is that the farther from the subject, the better. This being said, my studio has about 6 metres, which allows me to get about 4m away from the model. As usually there is only a seamless behind the subject, there are no distractions to be blurred out, so I do not seek shallow DOF in the studio - so in general F11 through f16 is fine for me. I am attaching below a few photos to support the above.

My stydio:
153424

Usual close-up shots (4x5 film, 645 film, 35mm film, full frame digital in this order):
153425
153426
153427

[costin.teodorovici]

FF:
153428

I may have better work than the above, but I had these at hand.

[LeeSimmons]

With you requirements and budget I'd look at the 270mm tele lenses. They have tight image circles but for studio portraits on seamless it might be the ticket. Usually pretty cheap as well. Bellows draw will be an issue with closer crop longer lenses.

[Ari]

A 210mm or 250mm would work nicely for your needs, I think.

Many of the answers will be quite subjective.
For example, unless I'm specifically trying to compress the elements in an image, I shoot portraits with a normal lens (150 for 4x5, 300 for 8x10).
On 4x5 I will allow myself to go a little longer sometimes, say to 210mm, because I find the compression less unpleasant on 4x5 than I do on 8x10.
But for 8x10, I can't make a decent portrait even using a 360mm lens, I much prefer the 300.
So, you see, it really depends on personal taste and preferences, not to mention how much space one has.
Find which FL works for you, and which doesn't, then follow that path to its logical conclusion.

[costin.teodorovici]

Thanks Ari. I have a couple of Fujinons W 250/6.3 in my ebay watch list - going for about 150 euros, I'll try to find out more about them and maybe buy one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DrTang]

how big is your studio?

mine is pretty decent size and 210 is about as long as I can go for up to 3/4 length portraits

[costin.teodorovici]

6 metres - which gives some 4 metres to step back from the model.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ari]

Thanks Ari. I have a couple of Fujinons W 250/6.3 in my ebay watch list - going for about 150 euros, I'll try to find out more about them and maybe buy one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They're excellent lenses, and on 4x5 you'll be using the sweet spot of the lens, since it easily covers 5x7.

[costin.teodorovici]

They're excellent lenses, and on 4x5 you'll be using the sweet spot of the lens, since it easily covers 5x7.

Would you object to a Seiko shutter? I normally look for Copals rather than other brands. I am asking because there is a 6.7 variant for sale in a Seiko shutter going for a bit less than 6.3 in Copal shutters.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Peter De Smidt]

How much lens to film extension do you have available with your camera?

[costin.teodorovici]

How much lens to film extension do you have available with your camera?

I'll have to measure and revert. But I think the rail on the Plaubel Peco Junior is about 38cm, but don't take my word for it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ari]

Would you object to a Seiko shutter? I normally look for Copals rather than other brands. I am asking because there is a 6.7 variant for sale in a Seiko shutter going for a bit less than 6.3 in Copal shutters.

No, Seikos are pretty tough shutters, though they operate a little differently than Copals.
The f6.7 lens is a good lens for 8x10, it has much more coverage than the f6.3 version, but it's older.
The f6.3 lenses are newer and have multi-coated glass.
Just something to consider, but either lens is a good choice for 4x5.


How much lens to film extension do you have available with your camera?

Excellent question.

[costin.teodorovici]

Many thanks guys. I've ordered this lens based on your advice and thr several very positive reviews I've read today: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222204905236 . Apparently Jock Sturges has used this lens model extensively in his portrait work.

I am now anxiously waiting for it to be delivered, based on my experience with ordering from Japan it may take a couple of weeks. Since I won't be using that Linhof board, I'm happy to pass it to another member in need of it against the cost of shipping.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Alan Gales]

Yes, Jock Sturges used it on his early work. I own one and was happy to pay $300 U.S. for it. It's a great lens. You should be very happy with it.

[drew.saunders]

You got a great deal on that lens! If you don't like it, you should be able to recover your cost, and maybe a bit more, later. I have a Fuji 125 in a Seiko shutter and the shutter works just fine, but the top speeds are off. Just about every used mechanical shutter will be inaccurate at the top speeds, so if you think you'll use those speeds (and if you're using studio flash, then the shutter speed doesn't matter much), you'll want to test the shutter.

According to http://camerapedia.wikia.com/wiki/Plaubel_Peco_Junior_View_Cameras your camera has a 32cm rail, so you probably have around 300mm of bellows draw, give or take a bit. With a lens that requires 250mm of bellows draw at infinity (and the 250/6.7 may not need exactly 250mm of draw, but it'll be within 5mm either way, mostly likely it'll need 240-250mm), you'll be able to focus as close as 1.5m with 300mm bellows. If your bellows extend beyond 300mm, you'll be able to focus even closer.

I had a Fuji 250/6.3 and replaced it with a Fujinar 250/4.7 (a Tessar design, which I bought for a great price), but they're all great lenses.

[costin.teodorovici]

Hi, it's been a while but I got a chance to test the Fujinon on a few shots, all seems well enough. I found the available bellows extension somewhat limiting, si I 3d printed am extension board giving an additional 8cm, which should bring it in the close-up domain.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk