How often use a polarizer + ND Grad

[nimo956]

Help! I'm in danger of spending too much money on gear. I already had a screw-in polarizing filter before I bought the Lee kit with ND grads. The 105mm polarizer filter from Lee is much more expensive. I'm trying to imagine situations where I'd want to use both a polarizer and ND filter. Honestly, how often is this needed in the real world?

The solution I've come up with is to use the polarizer first, get it into position, and then attach the Lee filter kit to add the ND grad. Not sure if you're supposed to have the polarizer closest to the lens though.

[Professional]

In the future i will do more tests or experiments with my way with filters.

I bought 4x4 Pol and ND filters too, also 4x6 GND, but because i shoot digital and i have super/ultra wide angle lenses then i have also 6"[150mm] filters, and i use them all together at once, and what is my way of stacking all the 3 filters together is that first i place the ND closest to the lens, then GND, and last further is the Pol, and i can place the Pol first on the last slot further than the lens front and rotate it to have the effect then i add GND and last ND, and with those square/rectangular filters i can use them on all or any lenses once i buy adapter rings for each, and most lenses are sharing same filter thread, and by these filters i get either no vignetting or very minimal comparing to screw in ones.

Good luck!

[Pfsor]

Help! I'm in danger of spending too much money on gear.


Try Kickstarter - some guys here are very generous.

"I'm trying to imagine situations where I'd want to use both a polarizer and ND filter."

How is this exercise helping your photography?

[Alan Gales]

Back in my 35mm days I owned a regular screw in polarizing screen and some Cokin filters. I would mount the polarizer first and then the Cokin filters and I didn't have any problems with it. Before spending money, try it out and see what you think.

I'm a huge fan of polarizing screens but not so much with graduated neutral density filters. There seemed to always be something above the horizon line that I didn't want darkened. A lot of people use them though.

[Pere Casals]

I'm a huge fan of polarizing screens but not so much with graduated neutral density filters. There seemed to always be something above the horizon line that I didn't want darkened. A lot of people use them though.

Well... if you shot Velvia with low sun... sky can be a lot of stops over earth, if you want both in the slide you need to do something, as slides can get burnt with ease.

With BW there are more options, a color filter that darkens sky, or N-2 development, for example.

[Alan Gales]

Well... if you shot Velvia with low sun... sky can be a lot of stops over earth, if you want both in the slide you need to do something, as slides can get burnt with ease.

With BW there are more options, a color filter that darkens sky, or N-2 development, for example.


I used to shoot Kodachrome 25 slide film. I purchased both a Cokin graduated neutral density filter and a graduated blue filter to solve the problem you mention. A couple times they came in handy but most of the time they would darken something in the image that I didn't want darkened and it wouldn't look natural.

I've seen landscape images where they were used to great effect but for what I shot here in St. Louis they didn't work very well for me.

[Pere Casals]

I've seen landscape images where they were used to great effect but for what I shot here in St. Louis they didn't work very well for me.


I agree, it depends on the shot... of course a mild contrasty scene is not a problem... but a with sunset can have 6 stops of range, if the graduated ND solves 3, with the sky overexposed +1 shadows go at -2... Without the graduated you need to sacrify something.

If scanned also it is possible to make a bracketing and later combine in PS... but if you want the slide...

[Alan Gales]

I agree, it depends on the shot... of course a mild contrasty scene is not a problem... but a with sunset can have 6 stops of range, if the graduated ND solves 3, with the sky overexposed +1 shadows go at -2... Without the graduated you need to sacrify something.

If scanned also it is possible to make a bracketing and later combine in PS... but if you want the slide...

Oh, I agree with you. I see these beautiful sunsets taken out west with the grand vistas. I know they used a graduated neutral density filter. In St. Louis I have buildings included. If I go out away from the city then I have the sky and a whole bunch of trees and every shot is similar. ;) I do have a sunset shot from a cliff in Castlewood State Park overlooking the Meramec River and railroad tracks that is interesting. I didn't need a graduated neutral density filter for that though due to of the placement of the sun being mostly out of the frame.

Yes, a lot depends upon the shot and the shot depends upon where you live too. There are interesting things to shoot anywhere you go but sometimes what is interesting in one place is not as interesting in another.

I'm not against graduated neutral density filters. I just don't find much use for them in my photography.

[biedron]

I'm trying to imagine situations where I'd want to use both a polarizer and ND filter. Honestly, how often is this needed in the real world?


I shoot landscapes on transparency film. I don't think I have ever used a GND and a polarizer together. I use a GND very often. A polarizer less frequently.

Bob

[Mark Darragh]

Using a polariser and a ND grad together is not an unheard of combination in my experience, although not one that I would use very often. Darkening the sky while increasing separation between the clouds and sky is one scenario where I have used the two together. Cutting reflections and glare from water while reducing the brightness of the sky is another. Obviously whether you’re likely to use that combination yourself depends on where you are photographing, the lighting conditions and what you are trying to realise in your photograph.

According to Lee there is no issue placing the resin grads first in front of a polariser but to be on the safe side, and avoid any potential problems with birefringence, I place the grad closest to the lens. I use either Lee or Tiffen 4x4 glass polarising filters. Hard grads for scenes with very distinct and relatively level horizons, soft grads if there are elements which might cross into the transition zone.

If you plan to shoot with wide angle lenses you may encounter problems with vignetting by screwing the Lee holder into your polarising filter.

All the best!

[Alan Gales]

I found that when using a screw in polarizer next to the lens and then using square filters you have to be careful not to change the setting of the polarizing screen. It's a bit fussy but of course can be done. I have used both a screw in polarizer and a Cokin square graduated filter together and it worked out fine.

[jeroldharter]

I found a polarizer better in theory than in practice. Difficult to get skies even. Maybe for reflection on water or green plants but not that helpful for landscapes. I would pass on a polarizer if you are trying to save money in large format.

ND filters are often not needed due to low film speed and tiny apertures. You could use f/45 rather than a 0.6 ND filter for example. so if you have to pick, I would get a strong ND filter (at least 3 stops) for use with really long exposures. A yellow/orange/red filter would be more useful for me. Just my 2 cents.

[Greg Miller]

I find a polarizer to be essential for landscape photography. Virtually all leafs have a reflective sheen that will reflect blue or gray skies - polarizers can remove that and allow the actual leaf color to be revealed. The filter can be problematic with wide angle shots that include a vast blue sky and the polarization will be uneven across 90 degrees of field of view (But in those cases you can just use less polarization). The filter will also cut though a bit of haze on high humidity days (which is about 90% of the time in the eastern US in the summer). So I use one on about 90% of my landscape photos.

Around sunrise and sunset it is common for the sky to be much brighter than the earth, so it is common for me to add a GND at those times. It is no big deal and yields a photo much closer to what I remember seeing (since we can see 14 stops of light and our brain self corrects on top of that).

[Bob Salomon]

I found a polarizer better in theory than in practice. Difficult to get skies even. Maybe for reflection on water or green plants but not that helpful for landscapes. I would pass on a polarizer if you are trying to save money in large format.

ND filters are often not needed due to low film speed and tiny apertures. You could use f/45 rather than a 0.6 ND filter for example. so if you have to pick, I would get a strong ND filter (at least 3 stops) for use with really long exposures. A yellow/orange/red filter would be more useful for me. Just my 2 cents.

So, you were using a polarizer with a short lens?

[Professional]

To be honest, filters are just tools, i use them when i need them or if they help in some scenarios, people think filters are always been using in every photography, i have the freedom to use them, if they help the photos then great, if not then simply i take them off and shoot without, there is no another answer for that, to have something as backup and when needed is better than have nothing and wish to have it when necessary, i traveled in the past to some where you live [Europe, USA, New Zealand] and filters gave me like 90% keepers, i may do without but then i will have about 40-60% keepers, and that time i wasn't aware about blending or multi-exposure much, so i always get the one exposure almost right and this saved a lot of my time.

If i shoot waterscapes with sky then the three filters are there, if no water but there is sky then mostly 2 of them, either ND and GND or POL and GND, if no water and no sky then ND and CPL, if water and no sky then also ND and CPL, so GND i always use where there is a sky in the scene and i use ND if i want longer exposure sometimes, CPL is only for either increasing the saturation if green and plants/trees are there or water reflection like in waterfalls end or streams and such.

At the end, in film from what i here you get that kind of amazing DR or latitude, so this may help to minimize the use of filters, i didn't try yet, but once i will shoot landscapes/waterscapes with film i will give it a try and see.