Wood choice for camera building

[Fr. Mark]

The other day I went to an estate sale and found a 1"x6.5"x8 foot quarter sawn cherry board for $10, this seemed like a great price so I bought it even though I try not to spend hobby dollars 'til I'm sure I am going to use the materials. I'd thought I was going to build the next cameras out of hard maple and brass (or maybe aluminum and have it anodized black---the un-ebony camera if you like).

But I have this cherry board...

What do you all think about cherry for a camera build? I think it used to be commonly used 100+ years ago.

Also, how much wood do you recommend for large format cameras?
I'm thinking these will be flatbed field camera(s) to hike with, i.e. Day trips at most.
The temptations are across the spectrum of formats. I have holders for 4x5, 5x7 and non standard 8x10's. There are days I crave whole plate and this spring I made a composite 10x24 (3x10's in a cylinder pinhole camera) that is feeding a craving for BIG cameras and directly printing from negatives like 14x17.

[Jac@stafford.net]

Cherry wood has always been good for me.

153377

[LabRat]

I had be given quite a bit of cherrywood + cherrywood covered plywood from a woodworker's scrap pile... Worked very well for dozens of camera projects!!! A little soft at the edges while working with it (before finishing) but do-able... And pretty!!!

FYI/ you can use about any wood for camera project, as long as the wood is well supported structurally, and well sealed against moisture loss/gain that would warp it... One COULD make a camera out of popsicle sticks of well designed + sealed construction, but some old-growth extinct wood camera might blow your mind, but not affect the image much at all...

Steve K

[Duolab123]

Cherry is beautiful. My concern would be weight. The Deardorffs used mahogany. A nice cherry board for 10 bucks is a find. I have a c 1917 Folmer and Schwing, I think its either cherry or Maple, it's heavy AND beautiful!

Best Regards, Mike

[Leszek Vogt]

It's up to you what size of the camera you choose, but you can use this cherry as a centerpiece and add other wood/s for accent or contrast. It takes little bit of second-third look....till it has a tasteful (if not artistic) look, but that's a subjective value. If it was me, I'd make sure the moisture is at reasonable level, before giving it appropriate finish.

To be honest, I prefer the working qualities of maple or mahogany, but if you use well honed tools you should be fine.

By the way, can you show us what the grain looks like ?

Sounds like a start of a project....

Les

[Fr. Mark]

The grain on the cherry is pretty straight except around the knots. Nothing like curly or Birdseye maple.
Weight, well, yes this is not Sitka spruce or the cedar I have for making a kayak paddle but I suspect that I could make a respectable 8x10 field camera that weighs much less than the 5x7 Sinar P. I have a 1900 or so 1/2 plate camera that weighs very little that appears to be cherry. I need to do a little more work on the film holders for that they suffer from light leaks. The camera is a fraction of the Sinar weight but also a lot harder to use.
Camera sizes: I probably need to get a macro lens for my Nikon d3100 and figure out how to stitch photos of negatives and how to print digi negatives because I might discover that 4x5/5x7 (or even 6x6cm) has enough information to make final prints that make me happy w/o all the additional problems and expense of bigger cameras. On the other hand the "simplicity" of an in camera negative is appealing. I guess we decide where we like it complicated.

[Pfsor]

Also, how much wood do you recommend for large format cameras?


Sincerely - a lot of it for a lot of them. Depending on their size, naturally.

[Drew Wiley]

The key is 1) dimensional stability, 2) machinability, and 3) proper curing of the wood in advance. Kiln dried or fully air dried cherry meets these requirements and is an attractive lightweight material. But it is also slightly on the soft side, so merely OK in terms of bumps and accidents, or holding screws. You don't want
figure to it unless you're more concerned about something pretty on your fireplace mantle rather than long-term functionality. Alder is the poor man's cherry, bland in color and harder to find properly cured. The classic wood was pattern grade Hondouras mahogany, now nearly nonexistent. But there are similar woods like sipo which are relatively dimensionally stable. Keith Canham uses black walnut. It's beautiful and easy to work, but you have to understand the curing options and various cuts first. Maple is a wonderful material except that it weighs a ton and you need to very carefully predrill everything due to its hardness.
No doubt numerous other species could be cited.

[Jac@stafford.net]

Jack Deardorff mentioned that during prohibition he scrounged scrapped bar tops for some good wood. I have some very old Walnut dimension lumber in the garage attic. It came with the house which was built in 1896. It's time to cut it up.

[Pere Casals]

There are a lot of woods that will work. You should see what wood style you like the most, if aesthecis is important. I've you are to invest a lot of time the price of the wood is secondary. Anyway Cherry wood is perfect

Hiromi Sakanashi selected Honduran mahogany or Indonesian ebony for the Ebony beauties, more Mahogany is better for bigger formats because its specific gravity is just 0.44grs/cm3, Ebony weights two times that, 0.88.

Mr Hiromi used 20 years aged heartwood.

As Drew said today honduran mahogany is not perhaps an option, but there is african ebony.

http://www.woodworkerssource.com/shop/category/ebony_gaboon.html
https://www.westpennhardwoods.com/Our-Products.aspx


To make a camera that just works, in my opinion, there are a lot of options, if you are to make an object that you are going to love and you want to caress it with your hands then beautiful timber and accurate craft is required.

I had the same problem... I'm to make a wooden stereo camera (for Velvia, with 2 old Symmar 210, adjustable separation for the 1:30 rule), and I ask myself if I have to go straight or to consider some "ebony inclusion" to make a nice thing.

Finally I found that better to go straight and even printing 3D some parts, if it works then a "luxury" version may be built.


Anyway if you use precious woods please make sure it comes legal certified and from "applied ethics" source.

PD: wiki: While the three Swietenia species are classified officially as "genuine mahogany", other Meliaceae species with timber uses are classified as "true mahogany." So "genuine mahogany" may be more cash.

[Drew Wiley]

Even when I bought my own Ebony-brand camera, I chose mahogany rather than ebony. Ebony is a far harder and more durable, but also a lot heavier (this is my main long-haul backpacking camera), and is prone to end splits if you don't keep it sealed. But the mahogany involved was indeed true pattern grade that had been in storage curing for over thirty years - indeed a scarce commodity! In the old days, stone masons and bricklayers would purchase pattern-grade mahogany levels
with brass edging, and they would stay flat for years. Now the same brands look the same, nice n' purty, but often warp even before they arrive at the store. Wrong mahogany.

[Jac@stafford.net]

If someone would build a camera with carefully considered wood grain matching, or complementing, and attention to patterns it would be wonderful. Most cameras were not built with such in mind largely because wood was just the common, expeditious material.

[Drew Wiley]

Wisner Technical cameras were designed esp pretty. He was a harpsichord maker, so quite a skilled woodworker. More pretty than functional in my opinion. Or go
to that referenced link I provided on another thread concerning Blue Ridge Woodworks wet plate camera and matching dark box, last's year's second prize winner
in Festool's international woodworking contest. I do just the opposite. I've also elsewhere mentioned how I even distress and discolor maple camera mounting blocks to match the scars and aging patina on my veteran Ries tripods. Wood needs to look like wood, not Formica... some wilderness battle scars, just like me.

[Alan Gales]

I'd like to see one made from repurposed barn wood that had been sanded and sealed. That would be cool!

[Fr. Mark]

This is interesting guys. I've been working toward building some bow saws with Sapele and cedar. I don't think I want to use either of those for camera building. It's a lot easier to machine wood, but sometimes I wonder if I ought think more about aluminum...

[Pfsor]

It's a lot easier to machine wood, but sometimes I wonder if I ought think more about aluminum...

In such a case I would strongly advocate for the aerospace industry aluminum. Would give the camera a personality on its own.

[Jac@stafford.net]

[...]in Festool's international woodworking contest. I do just the opposite. I've also elsewhere mentioned how I even distress and discolor maple camera mounting blocks to match the scars and aging patina on my veteran Ries tripods. Wood needs to look like wood, not Formica... some wilderness battle scars, just like me.

Do you walk over your wet prints after washing?
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[Jac@stafford.net]

In such a case I would strongly advocate for the aerospace industry aluminum. Would give the camera a personality on its own.

Which aluminum? There are many grades and no LF camera needs NASA rated aluminum. Compliant to machining is most important. Strength is easily achieved with most ordinary grades.

[Jac@stafford.net]

I'd like to see one made from repurposed barn wood that had been sanded and sealed. That would be cool!

Yes, it might be but most barns were built of cheap wood. We can be certain, however, that the planks would be settled, done warping. What an interesting idea, regardless.
.

[Pfsor]

Which aluminum? There are many grades and no LF camera needs NASA rated aluminum. Compliant to machining is most important. Strength is easily achieved with most ordinary grades.

Any aerospace aluminum would do. Not necessarily for its strength but for its personality inducing capacity. IMHO even better than repurposed barn wood.
Repurposed aerospace aluminum!

[Drew Bedo]

Quite a number of the Zone VI Classic cameras were done in Cherry.

[Alan Gales]

Yes, it might be but most barns were built of cheap wood. We can be certain, however, that the planks would be settled, done warping. What an interesting idea, regardless.
.

I've seen flooring, wainscoting, kitchen cabinet doors etc. made from sanded and sealed barn wood. It can be quite beautiful.

On another note a friend of mine owned a log cabin. When he finished his basement he installed a bathroom. For the outside of the bathroom, instead of drywall he used unfinished barn wood. He even made a door with a half moon cut out. He would have friends over to shoot pool, drink beer and use the outhouse. :)

[Willie]

If you are photographing in Texas, Mesquite or Pecan might be good choices.
East Coast, Maple and Oak hardwoods?
West Coast, Redwood is kind of soft, but how about Eucalyptus in SoCal? Monterey pine in NoCal and who knows in Oregon or Washington?

Haven't seen a sod camera from Kansas yet.

[Fr. Mark]

I could make a sod camera so long as it didn't have to be portable. Camera obscura.

[Fr. Mark]

I like 1/4 sawn oak for furniture well enough but cameras... I dunno. In PA there are lots of interesting native woods (Penn's sylvania = Penn's Forest after all).

Aircraft or NASA Al: right. I was thinking more in terms of extrusions found at big box stores or finding someone who enjoys machine work and has the tools and trying to barter.

[Drew Wiley]

Aluminum vibrates, is a poor thermal insulator, hard to fabricate. I have customers who do incredibly intricate, incredibly expensive "origami"-style commissioned sculptures using honeycomb aircraft panel - wonderfully stiff and lightweight. Not at the moment - the correct aluminum saw blades are in short supply. Glad I bought the last one for myself! But the custom carbide houses can step in to fill temporary gaps like this, albeit at much higher prices. Helpful to have kevlar gloves too! Damn edges are sharp, just like glass. Aluminum fabrication also requires careful dust control. The biggest dust explosion I remember in this neighborhood was at an aluminum fabrication plant - it shattered windows fifty miles away at the San Jose airport! Maybe someone could experiment with a
lightweight core aluminum panel like Dibond, which is far easier to cut and assemble.

[Jac@stafford.net]

[...] Haven't seen a sod camera from Kansas yet.

Ach! Now my brain is in fire! :) Good image, Willie!
.

[Fr. Mark]

Wood vibrates too---think musical instruments. The Sapele parts to my bow saws could've been xylophone bars. Nice tone. Anyway, I'm not sure that's an overarching concern.
I will have to learn more about Al composite.
Another approach could be fiberglass or other fibers (Kevlar, carbon fiber) and epoxy or other resin by itself over wood or thin plywood or over ??? like some kayak construction. Soft light wood could be used and if not too heavy handed with fiber or resin/epoxy a lite structure could result.

[Ron (Netherlands)]

IMHO most sturdy and beautiful cameras were built from teak.
1. it is very weather, moisture (tropics) and shock resistent (hard durable wood)
2. old fine teak is very costly and nowadays quite rare to find (fast growing teak from which garden furniture nowadays is made won't be suitable);
3. it is quite heavy;
4. hard to cut - it will easily blunt your saws
So it is not the easy way to go.....

[Steven Tribe]

And, of course, Ron has even got teak plate holders!

One thing I have found with both cherry and Euroasian Walnut is that there is considerable variation between general appearance of finished timbers. This not just a question of growing conditions but seems more genetic for individual trees. Even walnut cameras made in the early 20th century (esp. France) have so much variation between wood parts that someone might think they used a variety of different woods.

[Bruce Barlow]

Richard Ritter uses high-quality cherry he gets from a small mill near his folks in Allentown, PA for cameras up to 20x24. He uses other wood, too, but his go-to wood is cherry for backs, fronts, and lens boards.

He also uses a lot of carbon fiber and aircraft aluminum - that's what the rails are made of. Extremely lightweight.

[LabRat]

About the metal;

Aluminium is the camera maker's friend... Light/strong/fairly easy to cut, drill/comes in useful shapes, etc... Extruded material just has to cut off larger stock with a hacksaw or a saber saw and filed... Easy to drill/tap... Many interesting shapes available... What's nice compared to steel is that the chip from cutting/drilling is rather broad,where steel chip usually cuts into annoying small splinters that end up everywhere and eventually in your skin...

Don't worry about the term "aircraft" aluminium... Yes, there are different grades, but most are fine for your camera project... The only thing to avoid is the stuff they sell at your local home store... The oxides are "sticky" and clog up saw teeth/drill bits/files, etc and don't cut as cleanly... Most areas have a metal supplier that will sell better cut-off material by the pound...

The "explosion" hazard mentioned is really overblown, as what is really dangerous (with many metals) is any operation that makes a large excess of finely divided chip that is allowed to collect in very large piles (like powder from abrasive cut-off or filing operations) and a shower of hot sparks happens to fall upon it, it could ignite... It is also less likely with alumimium, as the chip is larger and more broad.. The shops that blow up usually don't clean up their cuttings, and have chips/dust covering everything, and up above their knees from the floor (this does happen)...

Use a cutting fluid/wax/or WD-40 for better cuts/tool life...

Steve K

[Fr. Mark]

Hmmm Allentown is not even a two hour drive...

Aluminum powder (not shavings) can be fun for pyrotechnics but I've not found it easy to start. Probably wasn't fine enough powder.

Thanks for the encouragement about Aluminum(USA)/Aluminium(UK).

[Jac@stafford.net]

Aluminum powder (not shavings) can be fun for pyrotechnics but I've not found it easy to start. Probably wasn't fine enough powder.

Magnesium-aluminum is more volatile. Throw an old VW Bug engine into a bonfire for a show.
.

[LabRat]

Hmmm Allentown is not even a two hour drive...

Aluminum powder (not shavings) can be fun for pyrotechnics but I've not found it easy to start. Probably wasn't fine enough powder.

Thanks for the encouragement about Aluminum(USA)/Aluminium(UK).

If you go to a metal supplier with a large inventory, your eyes will pop out!!! (Some are like a supermarket...) Bring a tape measure, calipers, gloves, something to wipe your greasy hands, and leave a hacksaw in the car to cut down oversize pieces to fit inside (but they will cut large pieces for little or no cost)... You won't spend much money, and come home with enough stuff for several projects...

Just restrain yourself, and don't go overboard (if possible)!!! ;-)

Steve K

[Fr. Mark]

Last time I went to a metal supply house, I was farming (organic dairy) and bought a huge number of 4' 3/8ths rebar for temporary electric fence posts (you use inexpensive plastic insulators). They had them all banded in steel tape. They had a an overhead crane and when they put it down on the bed of the F-250, I was alarmed at how it kept going down and down on the spring travel. I don't think it was 1000 pounds but it might have 500-750...

Took a while to unload a handful at a time...very useful and effective fence posts.

I'm pretty sure you could get almost anything there. They are a 2.5 hour drive away now. I will have to see what's local. The one scrap yard I've dealt with emphatically does NOT sell retail.

Building with aluminum is intriguing but other than drill bits, 1 tap, a hack saw, and files, I don't have machine tools. Not am I in a position to buy them. So, If I go down that route I need to make friends with a machinist or get real creative with extrusions or something.

[Tim Meisburger]

I need to make friends with a machinist too! Now that I live in DC (moving in today) that may be possible. I'm a competent woodworker, but have never done much with metal beyond hacksaw and file. They have some machining tools out at the national park where I used to (and still do) volunteer, if I can find someone to show me how to use them. From perusing the internet I know machinists cut gears and knurl nuts for fun, which could be useful for camera parts...

[greenechere]

Sounds like a start of a project....

http://hautavis.net/146/o.png

[Jim Fitzgerald]

I've used walnut for the five cameras I've built so far. My 8x10 I used some Rosewood as well. I've used 80/20 extruded aluminum and walnut for my 14x17. Design something and have at it! I started with walnut because I had a lot of it. I know how the wood works and finishes. Some said it would not hold up but all of the cameras look great still. Pick a wood with character and let her rip!

[Fr. Mark]

I love the look of walnut and how well it can be shaped. I used an old scrap to make the tensioner for a bow saw today. But, I don't like the dust or cost! One of my pinhole LF cameras has a walnut handle and "shutter." My monster 8x10 has walnut knobs and some other walnut parts. That camera is a real mixmaster of wood species---the design was predicated on using up materials not buying stuff (Sapele plywood, maple, walnut, oak, poplar, aluminum, steel screws, etc. even some Masonite in the ground glass holder).

I'd be curious to know how many of you do it yourself-ers have to have a good looking result or if you are more into function regardless of looks or somewhere in between.

On a certain level it's all about the print. But on another level it isn't. The process and the tools are important too. Right?

[el french]

Online Metals has a good description of the various aluminum alloys: http://www.onlinemetals.com/productguides/aluminumguide.cfm

Hardware store aluminum is usually the most expensive.