Schneider 360/620 convertible

[dave4242]

Hi all,

I am looking at this lens as an inexpensive way to get a 600MM length lens.

I am shooting 4x5 and enlarging to 11x14

There are lots of threads out there don't use it as a convertible or sure np use it, but none seem to answer if you are using it in my situation.

Just wondering if anyone had any sharpness issues when enlarging.

Thanks

Cheers

David

[Bob Salomon]

Everyone does compared to the results from a non convertible long lens.

[karl french]

24" Red Dot Artar in a shutter would be a better choice.

[jnantz]

david

i don't have the same FL lens you are asking about
and i don't bother with all the lens to lens comparisons
unless they all done the same exact way ( air force test pattern ? )
by the same person with the same developer, same processing method
same enlargement or contact print technique and developer and paper,
otherwise it is useless as far as i am concerned.
no idea what your shooting style is all about or what aperture is your sweet spot
convertiblized and stopped down you will experience focus shift so if you get one of these
lenses don't forget to refocus with a loupe or whatever you use after you compose and focus.
i have a 210/370 and have used it for a long time converted on a 5x7 camera since i don't have
enough bellows on any 4x5 camera i own. the focus is further back so it takes longer than the
focal length to focus at infinity, so you should keep that in mind too, the 620 will take a more than 650mm of bellows
to get to infinity ... i've shot mine ( 370 ) wide open (f12 ) as well as stopped down and it was sharp and nice stopped down
and had a nice softness wide open ( used it for portraits ) ... its a plasmat design. if you like plasmats you might think
about using g-claron cells as a set. http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?110660-G-Claron-casket-set

[Len Middleton]

I am looking at this lens as an inexpensive way to get a 600MM length lens.



David,

I do not know your level of knowledge, so just want to ensure that you know that this will require a minimum of around 600mm / 24" bellows for infinity focus, and more to focus closer.

I know my 4x5 Technika would not be able to handle it, as it only has about 16" of bellows draw.

Are you using a 4x5 field camera or monorail?

Some monorails are modular and will let you add intermediate standards to support additional bellows.

I expect there are few if any 4x5 field cameras that will have that much bellows draw. I would need to use my 8x10 field camera and borrow are 4x5 reducing back to do that.

Hope that helps,

Len

[dave4242]

Thanks everyone.

Using a Canham traditional field camera so have the 600mm of bellows, obviously i would love to have a prime 600mm lens but don't see having the $$$ and karl knows i didn't like the 24 inch artar that i tried.

@jnanian thanks for the info on the bellows draw I was hoping it would be closer to focus it at infinite.

Ah well that's why we ask questions.

Thanks again everyone!

[jnantz]

sure thing david

to give you i think i need 450mm of bellows for my 370 at infinity.
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?217-How-Do-I-Use-a-Schneider-Convertable-Symmar/page2
it looks like you will need 760mm of bellows at infinity ( unless i was reading ole's post wrong )

[dave4242]

@jnanian yes 760 mm worth of bellows ugh! http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/schneider_7.html

[jnantz]

you might also look for turner reich ( gundalach [ sorry my spelling is terrible ]
triple convertible lenses they have some that don't cost very much money and have 24" in their combination
i can't speak from experience how sharp they are stopped down to f22 but i do know if they are anything like a
wollensak 1a * 13/24/28 ) it is sharp as nails stopped down and converted, come to think of it, if you can find wollensak 1a triple
id grab it .. no idea if your camera has such massive bellows you might have to jump up a format ( or 2 ) to accomodate such a large lens !
[ as you already know from 760mm bellows for the symmar ] hope your front standard can hold such a giant too !

[N Dhananjay]

The nodal point of the converted lens lies well out in front of the actual element, so you will require a good deal more than the 620 mm to achieve infinity focus, more for focusing closer.

Re how good the converted performance is - some of the aberrations are controlled by having two elements. By removing one, you lose the benefits of some of these corrections. The aberrations that get worse are lateral color, coma and spherical. Lateral color can be reduced through the use of a strong monochromatic filter (easily done in B&W and usually impractical for color work). Coma and spherical aberrations are controlled by stopping down. This might be thought of as an issue but given the long focal length and DOF requirement, you are going to stop down anyway. In my experience, the converted lens used carefully and with the above caveats in mind gave me perfectly usable negatives for the contact printing that I do - the unconverted length was 'sharper' but the converted length was fine as well.

Comparing a converted lens to an unconverted lens is in some ways silly. The convertible lens was designed as a trade off - you reduced the load you carried for some (perhaps acceptable) loss in performance. As a trade off, it was actually quite an elegant solution. If it is the difference between getting to that inaccessible place to make the photographs vs. not, I'd take the convertible in a heartbeat. That said, it works best at about the 4x5 level and modest enlargements. Get much larger than that in format (e.g., 8x10 and above) and you are already carrying enough of a load that extra lenses are usually not what pushes you over - you went over a long time ago and are falling fast already.

If you want a 600 mm focal length and have only 600 mm of bellows, I'd urge you to look at telephoto designs like those by Nikkor and Fuji, which may work given your coverage requirements. If they do not, you could look at getting one of those top hat extensions for your lensboard and use a prime lens that does work for you.

Cheers, DJ

[dave4242]

Thanks everyone!

[Lachlan 717]

What about a 21" (or thereabouts) process lens?

Still very long on a 4x5" and will be less stress on the camera and allow closer focus.

I recently picked one up for my 7x17 for $125.

[Jim Andrada]

I recently sold my 600mm Nikkor telephoto which I used on my Technika - it worked fine but only because the Technika has quite a bit of bellows extension for a 4 x 5. I've used a 600mm Artar on my 5 x 7 monorail Kardan Bi with a 4 x 5 back and it was quite a stretch for the bellows, in the end I used an intermediate standard and the bellows off a 4 x 5 as an extension and then all was well - as long as I remembered to use a 2nd tripod under the front of the rail. I eventually gave up on the 600mm for 4 x 5 and 5 x 7 and decided to be satisfied with 480.

I have 12/21/28 Turner Reich/Gundlach and as soon as I get it mounted on a Technika lensboard I'll start playing with it and post the results

[dave4242]

Thanks DJ

[Luis-F-S]

What's not to like about a 24" Artar

[Lachlan 717]

What's not to like about a 24" Artar

Perhap read post #6...