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James O. Kenney
17-Apr-2005, 12:03
I would like to introduce myself and say hello. I am a Master craftsman in the area of cabinetry and furniture . I have been looking at this site for awhile and really enjoy it. I have been involved with photography for 35 years more or less, and now that the children are all moved out I can do it more because there is more time and money. I started out with a 35mm and then went to a Bronica, then sold the Bronica. Then about 2 years ago, I found some sights on building 4x5 cameras; so I built one. Then while I was looking for a lens I purchased a Calumet 4x5 and soon after that I bought a Speed Grafic 4x5. I only do black and white prints. I am having a great time doing it. All this leads to my question; where can I buy bellows material? I am wanting to build some more cameras and the last fabric I used didn't work very well. Does anyone have any suggestions as to where I can locate bellows fabric? James

Emmanuel BIGLER
17-Apr-2005, 12:38
James.
I envy you as a master carftsman since you'll soon manufacture your own line of view or field cameras to the best standards ;-)
Living in Europe I would of course recommend Camera Bellows from Birmingham, the UK, but I'm sure there is an address in the Americas.

www.camerabellows.com (http://www.camerabellows.com)

Some other ideas
- The bellows supplied for some chinese-made 4x5 wooden field cameras is available as a spare part and is very affordable.
- "system" large format cameras can attach/detach the bellows without any tool. You can look for a Sinar bellows or another brand of monorail view cameras.

There exist a rich litterature on the Internet about home building large format cameras.
A good starting point in the Northern part of the Old World but readily accessible here :
home.online.no/~gjon (http://home.online.no/~gjon)

Emmanuel BIGLER
17-Apr-2005, 12:44
Ooops ! sorry ! I missed the 'fabric' ketword. So you want to build you own bellows instead of buying one made to your specifications . I have no idea whether Camera Bellows sells fabric separately.

Another suggestion to challenge your skills would be molded-leather bellows in the style of Arca Swiss wide-angle bellows. You'd have to build wooden molds to shape wet leather ; tough job !!. But those kinds of bellows are extremely durable and flexible.

Will Strain
17-Apr-2005, 12:54
Try rubber backed black nylon material from Porter Camera

Dave Moeller
17-Apr-2005, 14:51
Porter Camera lists "darkroom cloth" in two types: rubber-backed nylon and rubber-backed polyester. I've been meaning to try them for making a bellows, but haven't had the time. I'd be interested to hear what you think if you try this route.

James O. Kenney
17-Apr-2005, 15:51
Thanks for the information. I have looked into Porters, but I really would like to get some material that is for bellows. I am not apposed to buying them already made but I really enjoy the new challange. I am needing a new dark cloth any way , so I will probably try it any. Thanks, James

Russell Autry
17-Apr-2005, 15:55
James, Will You post some pic's of Your camera? I am in the process of building a 4 x 5 camera.

Emmanuel BIGLER
17-Apr-2005, 16:19
James. If you take the route of interchangeable bellows to cover the whole range of focal lengths from wide angle to very long focal lengths with different separate bellows, you might be interested in this German article by Franz-Manfred Schüngel (found as a link on Jon Grepstad's excellent DIY-LF web site) on a how to make a simple bag bellows. Text is in german but diagrams are clear.
In fact, designing a bellows that would be absolutely universal is close to an impossible task ;-) since you always have to compromise between wide-angle use, where too many pleats restrict focusing and movements ; and long focal lengths, where too few pleats do not allow enough bellows drag.
The perfect fabric would match all those requirements at the same time : perfectly light-tight but extremely thin and resistant to wear and pinhole formation in the corners, extremely flexible but absolutely rigid to avoid sagging with long bellows drag ;-);-)

www.foto-net.de/net/dyo/gross_ww.html (http://www.foto-net.de/net/dyo/gross_ww.html)

James O. Kenney
17-Apr-2005, 16:36
I will try to get some fotos of my camera and post them. It has been quite a learning experence. I got it out the other day and the glue on the bellows is already coming loose . I basicly built it as a prototype so I could work out some of the problems and make the improvements of which there are plenty. I will try to do this very soon. Thanks James

Scott Fleming
17-Apr-2005, 19:45
As a bit of a craftsman myself, who has also worked with leather, I would go for a leather bellows. The most classy alternative too I would think.

As a wood worker it would be easy for you to make a wood block mold for whatever size bellows you want. Then you would want to obtain a vegetable tanned supple leather of the right thickness. Vegetable tanned leather is what is used for tooling and it will hold an impresson. You can add dye and conditioners later. Some experimentation would be in order. One would make a 'tube' of some determinite size larger than the mold. This would take some trial and error involving some other material, say canvas. In creating the tube I would not stitch the seam but rather carefull shave the margin of the two ends to half thickness and then glue the seam together using 3M industrial contact cement. This can be obtained from an auto parts store and is used to affix rubber mouldings to cars. They use it to laminate new sheet metal in elevator cars and once the two pieces are stuck together .... NOTHING will ever pull them apart. Then one would soak the leather and then block it to the mold. I would think you would need four outer block mold pieces to perfectly hold the wet leather to the inner mold.

As to holding your bellows to your frames: Try the 3M stuff.

Paul Fitzgerald
17-Apr-2005, 22:49
Hi there,

The glue is 3M Super Weatherstrip Adhesive (yellow) #051135 - 08001. The black version is not as strong.

Have fun finding leather in the right thickness, I have given up on that one. I will try a material called 'Sunbrella' to see how it works out.

Good luck with it.

Scott Fleming
17-Apr-2005, 23:07
Where to get the leather?

A tannery. Call up some taxidermists in your area and find out who is doing their hide tanning. Many do it themselves. I raise Axis deer and deer hide would make excellent bellows material. I've sent some off to be tanned with the hair on for furniture. Don't recall where I sent them off hand. Tandy Corp. sells the chemicals to do your own tanning and I know some taxidermists do theier own hide tanning. It shouldn't be that hard to track down a tannery that would do a hide to your specs.

Dan Dozer
18-Apr-2005, 09:26
Hi James,

I have re-covered several old bellows in the last few years and have learned a few things you should know in selecting the bellows material. First is that it has to be both thin enough and large enough for the bellows you are making or re-covering. I found that with the leather sources I checked with, it was getting pretty difficult in getting what I wanted. It was also getting pretty expensive - to the point where it might make more sense getting one professionally done. Note that I have looked at other fabric stores and not found this material anywhere else.

However, I found an inexpensive material at Hancock fabricks that works pretty well. I've done bellows from 4 x 5's up to an 8 x 10 Kodak 2D. The material is an imitation leather type plastic coating on top of a thin fabric backing. I found it in the part of the store that has stuff like naugahyde and imitation leather rolls. It costs about $15 per yard for a roll that is 60" wide. The first stuff I found about five years ago in their San Jose, CA store, and was dark brown (like died leather). The second stuff I found in their Los Angeles store, and was light brown (like natural leather). You can also get other colors and even have flowers on it (that didn't really appeal to me).

Don't make the mistake and get the thicker stuff - I learned the hard way. The material is something like a Polyethylene coating on thin fabrick. I have used this very successfully in re-using the old black fabrick backing and bellows stays, and just gluing this new material on top. I have also not had any problems with the bellows being too thick when folded up.

If you want to go this route and you (or anyone else) want a sample, send me your mailing address and I'll send you a piece.

Good Luck

Derek Finlay
22-Apr-2005, 15:02
Hi James I have had success with makeing large format bellows for my homemade 10x12 antique view camera .In New zealand I am limited with what materials to use,got some advice from an australian bellows maker.He uses buckrim,it s book covering material & is make in the uk costs $18 a meter.It comes in a large range of colours ,I use black and marron.It has a kind of canvas look which some old cameras used.I use manilla folder card for the strips plus a thin black cotton for the inside of the bellows . also you must use spray can contact glue for all the glueing of your bellows. Hope this helps .Regards Derek Finlay

jongrep
17-Oct-2015, 23:41
James.
I envy you as a master carftsman since you'll soon manufacture your own line of view or field cameras to the best standards ;-)
Living in Europe I would of course recommend Camera Bellows from Birmingham, the UK, but I'm sure there is an address in the Americas.

www.camerabellows.com (http://www.camerabellows.com)

New URL: http://jongrepstad.com/

My camera builders page will be available by the end of October.

Jon Grepstad

Some other ideas
- The bellows supplied for some chinese-made 4x5 wooden field cameras is available as a spare part and is very affordable.
- "system" large format cameras can attach/detach the bellows without any tool. You can look for a Sinar bellows or another brand of monorail view cameras.

There exist a rich litterature on the Internet about home building large format cameras.
A good starting point in the Northern part of the Old World but readily accessible here :
home.online.no/~gjon (http://home.online.no/~gjon)