Help me chase down the many, many light leaks I just found!

[williaty]

I was recently given a Graphic View camera and some film holders so I'm running 4x5 film for the first time since the early 2000s. The first two times I took the camera out, I used a pair of film holders I'd had back in college (so they were known-good) and shot under shade the whole time. Saturday, I took the camera over to an antique fire fighting equipment show, used all the film holders, and used the camera under direct sun for the first time. The result was 8 of 12 frames having light strike problems. Sadly, almost none of the frames had the same problems, indicating that I have a lot of troubleshooting to do. Given that I have so many different images for us to work through, I think I'm going to post just one at a time so we can talk about it for a while before I post the next one. Posting all 8 at once would just result in a confusing mess of a discussion, I think. Here's some factors common to all the frames:

1) All are new HP5+
2) All are shot with the same Graphic View camera
3) The Graphic View camera in question has a back that rattles back and forth about 0.5mm when in the landscape orientation.
4) The back was always arranged so that it loaded either from the top or from the right side.
5) There's a chance some fogging happened in the changing bag. It turns out the left arm's elastic isn't as tight as it was a decade ago.
6) It was HOT during shooting. Full sun, no clouds, on top of pavement from about 1230 to 1400 so it doesn't get much worse. I was keeping the film holders and other accessories in the hard case with the lid open set on the ground. I was surprised that the stuff in the case got so hot I burned myself when I went to pick up a metal lens hood from inside the case.
7) Lens was the same for all shots.
8) These are half-assed scans made by laying the whole ClearFile sheet down on the scanner so the quality is quite poor.


Image 1:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7395/27350513924_a25d725c78_b.jpg

Note the fogging covering the lower left corner of the image, the diffuse flare along the bumper at the bottom about 1/3rd of the way in from the right side, and the sharp flare at the very top of the frame in the center that actually extends into the area covered by the holder. I shot this frame at 3 different exposures. The problems are 100% consistent between each exposure, indicating that this is a camera problem, not a film holder problem, correct?

Any idea what's causing the problems in this first example?

[The Joker]

I would suggest the film holders are not seated fully in the camera back or more likely the camera back seals (black velvet on some cameras) are worn out/flattened so aren't giving a proper light tight seal. Given the amount of light its not as severe as it might be and it may not happen in dimmer light but it does need addressing.

Also, can you check that film holders are all flat and haven't become slightly curved. Place a metal straight edge along them (ruler) and see if they are as flat as they should be. If they had been left in the sun the heat could have warped them, possibly temporarily whilst they were hot on one side which is another possibility causing them not to sit in the back with a full seal. And posiibly a combination of the two, poor light trap and slightly warped holders. Just some possibilities to consider...

[photog_ed]

My guesses:

The flare at the bumper and at the top of the frame look like lens flare due to the sun reflecting from a specular surface. This extremely bright source inside the frame is causing scattering from the lens surfaces and any inclusions in the glass itself.

Because the fogging at the lower left is consistent, it's likely not a filmholder problem or changing bag problem. It's either a camera light leak or it could also be lens flare due to another specular reflection from something outside the frame. I'd vote for lens flare on that one, too.

[The Joker]

I think there is some specular flare too but have ignored that as it's not a light leak problem and I don't think OP is asking about that but I could be wrong

[williaty]

Well, I guess implicit in my question is whether that's fogging/light strike or flare. As I said, this entire rig is new to me. That doesn't look like what specular flare looks like on my Mamiya or Nikon gear, but I have no experience with this lens and camera to judge what specular flare typically looks like.

[cowanw]

You may be lifting the back away when you are manipulating the dark slide.

[Bob Salomon]

Before you do anything else take the camera and lens and a flashlight and go into a dark closet. Make sure the lens is closed. Turn on the flashlight. Stick it inside the camera and look for light leaks from your bellows. Put a film holder into the camera to block light through the gg.

[The Joker]

Just be careful when you come out of the closet.:D

[The Joker]

I think there is definitely some light leak along the bottom of image which has nothing to do with specular flare. The flare is just being exagerated by the light leak fogging IMO.

[LabRat]

Well, an important routine during shooting/film handling stage outside is to always prevent any direct sunlight from hitting holders/back/during pulling or pulled slides by covering with the focus cloth and having a cover or sleeve over filmholders while handling in bright light...

Keep the case in some shade, or have a cover for it... You should be able to narrow down the problem to camera, back or FS leaks/holders etc... Or possibly something in the loading or processing steps, sometimes using the shallow film storage boxes (if not sealed properly or where they might have been cracked slightly open)...

Steve K

[Bob Salomon]

Well, an important routine during shooting/film handling stage outside is to always prevent any direct sunlight from hitting holders/back/during pulling or pulled slides by covering with the focus cloth and having a cover or sleeve over filmholders while handling in bright light...

Keep the case in some shade, or have a cover for it... You should be able to narrow down the problem to camera, back or FS leaks/holders etc... Or possibly something in the loading or processing steps, sometimes using the shallow film storage boxes (if not sealed properly or where they might have been cracked slightly open)...

Steve K

And don't leave the dark slide out of the holder during the exposure. Only withdraw it enough to uncover the film, then make sure the slot is shaded when you pull it out to reverse it and reinsert it. Sometimes light can get into that open slot, especially with old holders.

[williaty]

Ok, I'm going to write the first image off as probably flare. I inspected the lens this evening and, if it's coated, it's only single coated. There's only a tiny color change, if any, to the reflections. Additionally, the inside face of the rear element was badly smudged and I'm sure that wasn't doing any favors to flare resistance!

Image 2:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7353/27928723666_7dc8f890bd_b.jpg

I think I see two separate issues here: 1) The general light strike along most of the bottom edge of the image and 2) heavy light strike that extends outside the frame caused by the film holder in the lower right corner. My questions here are

a) Since the fogging in the lower right corner extends into the area covered by the film holder, does this mean it has to have been caused before the film went into the holder?

b) The bottom of the image would have come from the top of the camera. Given what I said about the back rattling slightly against the standard when in landscape orientation, does that mean that this is likely sun getting in between the standard and the back or is it more likely it's getting in between the back and the film holder?

[The Joker]

on both images one in portrait and one in landscape show the main problem coming from the top edge of the camera back. Except on this one you have a light stripe down the left hand side too which I can't explain. I think camera back seals are certainly one of the problems. How do they appear to you? are the springs on the camera back holding the film in shot?

[williaty]

Two this time because I think they're related.

Image 3:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7385/27861380902_8f4c4d424d_b.jpg

Image 4:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7389/27861317702_625274046d_b.jpg

Diffuse light fogging on the right side of the image, vertically centered. Also, in the shot of the Bel Air chief's car, in the shadows under the car, on film it looks like there's a wavy curtain or falling rain or something. Just a slight increase in density in sort of a rippled or streaky pattern.



Today, I'm going to go through and check all the film holders for flatness and look at the state of the seal between the film holder and the back (there's no seal between the back and rear standard).

[Doremus Scudder]

I think you're dealing with light-trap or camera-back issues. If you are leaving the holders in the camera for a longer period with the darkslide pulled and in bright light, you're simply asking for trouble. Pull the slide just before the shot and reinsert just after. Keep the top of the filmholder covered if possible. Many use their darkcloth, but that isn't always practical for me. I usually hold the pulled darkslide over the top of the filmholder to block any light getting in.

The other (highly-likely) possibility is that you are pulling the holder away from the camera back when pulling the darkslide. Pinch the body and the back together with thumb and forefinger(s) so the spring back stays tight while you pull the slide with the other hand. Particularly the last two images seem to me to be thusly caused.

The images with the strikes along the "bottom" of the image have the strikes all on the light-trap side (even the one of the Beloit fire engine, since the light getting in from the trap on the right of the image could easily have spread the entire length).

Holders not seating properly in the camera back can cause all of this as well, so check seats for debris, straightness and possible added felt, etc. This latter, often added in good faith by someone making a "repair" can cause the holder to sit too far from the seat, allowing light in the crack. Don't ask me how I know this :)

If you have old plastic holders, you can often revive a dead light trap by washing. I soak for a while in soapy water then rinse under the faucet making sure to run plenty of water through the light trap. Let dry thoroughly.

Hope this helps,

Doremus