Voigtlander Petzval, Euryscope or...?

[Bob Hubert]

Hello,

I have a large Voigtlander lens serial number 24257 (1878 or so?). It has two elements cemented in the front and two air spaced elements in the back - so I said "Aha, a petzval". Then a noticed a number 7 engraved on the barrel and I got suspicious. Could it be a Euryscope? But, when I unscrewed the rear elements, they were not a petzval configuration or a Euryscope. They looked a lot like my Dallmeyer portrait lens where I can unscrew the back to change the softness. I can't find any Voigtlander Diagrams that show this configuration. Am I missing something basic? Picture of lens and rear element below. Any help would be appreciated.

Bob

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[Steven Tribe]

I noticed the sale listing. There are few Petzvals without a sleeve.These are probably an early pre-euryskop design by Sommer and very interesting historically.

[Steven Tribe]

There is some information on size markings on the barrel here:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?79350-Archaic-Proto-Euryscope/page8&highlight=archaic


Most of the identified Pre-Euryskops are approximations to later series IV or VI.

The assymetric position of the WH slot in relation to the two cells suggests a Petzval.
French makers were already selling Petzvals with the alternative Dallmeyer rear pair at this time ( Derogy and Gasc & Charconnet ...) so why not Voigtlander?

[Tim Deming]

Looks like a standard Petzval to me. Bigger ones, such as yours, have no focusing sleeve. Voigtlander marked their petzvals with numbers is some periods of manufacture. In your case it was after the new euryscops came out (or pre- euryscops if you prefer), where all of these had a size number like yours. The series numbers came later.

This is likely one of the faster f3.17 petzvals that Voigtlander introduced around this time

[Bob Hubert]

This is interesting. So the Dallmeyer rear lens pair is a modification to the traditional petzval design. Would it still be considered a petzval?

The Dallmeyer advertisements of the time clearly claim the ability to change the separation of the rear elements as a feature. Interestingly, they do not call it "soft focus" but "enhanced diffusion". I assume Voigtlander intended this lens to be used the same way. But I can't find any documentation to that effect.

Bob

[Steven Tribe]

Soft is a comparitively late term. The original system of introducing diffusion (Flou in French) in Petzvals was increasing the basic distances between the front and rear cells (like the Darlot Universal). Changing the distance between the revised rear pair of the Dallmeyer was part artistic objectives and part desire to reduce time needed for retouching of faces (Warts, freckles and spots!)?

[Jac@stafford.net]

So it's a #7. Was there another #7 other than the #7a?
Here is what's under the patina. My#7.

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[brandon13]

The Voigtlander Portrait Objectiv No. 7 was/is a petzval around this FL. although closer to 16 inches. Variations happen. I have a Voigtlander Euryscop series lll 7/7a and the water house slot is much closer to being centered between the 2 groupings. That's a petzval IMO.

[Mark Sawyer]

Soft is a comparitively late term. The original system of introducing diffusion (Flou in French) in Petzvals was increasing the basic distances between the front and rear cells (like the Darlot Universal). Changing the distance between the revised rear pair of the Dallmeyer was part artistic objectives and part desire to reduce time needed for retouching of faces (Warts, freckles and spots!)?

Mostly it was an attempt to increase depth of field.

[brandon13]

So it's a #7. Was there another #7 other than the #7a?
Here is what's under the patina. My#7.

I have a 7a Euryscop. Iv'e only shot it wide open for portraits on 11x14 format. I would love to see some shots you have taken with yours. Jac

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[Jim Fitzgerald]

Bob and I made a deal on this lens and I'll put it to use on the Century 8A and post some images. It will be nice to own a big Petzval such as this and use it.

[brandon13]

Bob and I made a deal on this lens and I'll put it to use on the Century 8A and post some images. It will be nice to own a big Petzval such as this and use it.


Funny that both of Bob's Voigtlander Petzals are ending up just a city away from each other. 10 minute drive to say Hallo!

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Funny that both of Bob's Voigtlander Petzals are ending up just a city away from each other. 10 minute drive to say Hallo!

Nice!!