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View Full Version : Buschman D movements vs. Super Graphic



senderoaburrido
17-Jun-2016, 09:23
I've been holding out for a late model, Toyo produced Super Graphic for a couple months now. I was interested in their relative abundance of movements, and occasionally low price (I had seen a few functional beaters on eBay for as low as 150 US). They appear to be nearly as functionally versatile as some of the more expensive cameras like the the Toyo and Wista brand technicals, and cheap enough that I wouldn't be uncomfortable bringing them with me on trips.

Now that I haven't seen any cheap auctions materialize for a month and a half, I'm looking at my other options. One of them is the Buschman D. There seem to be plenty on eBay, for decently low prices. I've seen plenty of posts in this forum and in others lauding its versatility and comparing it favourably to the Crown Graphic. Although it may be equal to the older Crown Graphic, I'm wondering how it compares to the Super Graphic and whether I should continue to hold out.

In particular I cannot seem to find the exact degrees of movement offered for tilt and swing. One of the primary reasons that I was interested in the Super Graphic is that it is capable of a surprising amount of tilt, shift, swing, rise and fall. Does the Buschman D offer similar specs?

Dan Fromm
17-Jun-2016, 09:39
Interesting. How does the Super Graphic as made by Toyo differ from the Super Graphic as made by Graflex? I ask because I don't know.

Be aware that the Super Graphic isn't the best camera for shortish lenses because its inner and outer bed rails aren't linked. Focusing a lens that makes infinity with the standard on the inner rails requires pushing and pulling.

Not to denigrate the Busch Pressman, but lens boards are hard to find and you may find the small lens throat limiting. Look before you leap.

senderoaburrido
17-Jun-2016, 09:43
Interesting. How does the Super Graphic as made by Toyo differ from the Super Graphic as made by Graflex? I ask because I don't know.

Be aware that the Super Graphic isn't the best camera for shortish lenses because its inner and outer bed rails aren't linked. Focusing a lens that makes infinity with the standard on the inner rails requires pushing and pulling.

Not to denigrate the Busch Pressman, but lens boards are hard to find and you may find the small lens throat limiting. Look before you leap.

Yeah, I had read about the throat. I currently have a Super Angulon f/5.6 90mm, and I know that won't fit. Looking to switch to a Nikkor f/8 for the added sharpness. Supposedly that just fits.

I'd also read about the rails in another thread. I realize it may be somewhat inconvenient, but it's not the worst feature. My concern with getting an older Crown Graphic is that it might not have the same movements, and more importantly, it may be significantly older and thus more likely to be worn and fail.

Jac@stafford.net
17-Jun-2016, 09:49
There is an article about the Busch Pressman by Dan Cozine on this site, here (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/cameras/busch-pressman.html), in which he gives the front movement metrics.


A quote: "Movements are ample, but not anything close to a full-featured monorail. Bellows draw is about 12 inches. Focusing is performed by knobs on either side of the bed. Sandwiched next to the right focus knob is a 2nd knob that locks the focus. There is about 2 _ inches of front rise with locking nuts on both sides. The front standard tilts from the base about 30 degrees both forward and back. There is one locking nut to hold the tilt and a second that locks it straight. The geared shift is about _ inch, but no swing. The bed drops for use of wide-angle lenses or back tilt."

I have a Busch D home at this time and can measure the movements if you would like an affirmation, backup measure.

Kevin Crisp
17-Jun-2016, 09:50
You have to work at it to find a Crown Graphic that can't still do what it was designed to. They don't generally wear out. You can break the rangefinder by not learning how to adjust it. Usually the problems are due to poor storage, such as mildew or dirt. If you think a Super will be more reliable as it was a later generation, I think you just have to look at the particular sample you are considering of each.

senderoaburrido
17-Jun-2016, 10:21
There is an article about the Busch Pressman by Dan Cozine on this site, here (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/cameras/busch-pressman.html), in which he gives the front movement metrics.

Hm. No swing at all is not ideal.




You have to work at it to find a Crown Graphic that can't still do what it was designed to. They don't generally wear out. You can break the rangefinder by not learning how to adjust it. Usually the problems are due to poor storage, such as mildew or dirt. If you think a Super will be more reliable as it was a later generation, I think you just have to look at the particular sample you are considering of each.

Does it possess identical degrees of tilt/shift/rise/swing/fall to the later model?

Kevin Crisp
17-Jun-2016, 10:25
The super is definitely the winner in available movements, though with some caveats as people have pointed out. Crown has front swing and front rise. It is possible to reconfigure it for front tilt too.

I personally think the crowns are great for what they can do and I do hand hold them. If more movements are essential, a reasonably light weight folder like a Tachihara or a Zone VI would be my preference. I did find the small opening and less board availability an issue with the Busch. As I recall I couldn't fit a 210mm Symmar on it.

senderoaburrido
17-Jun-2016, 11:03
The super is definitely the winner in available movements, though with some caveats as people have pointed out. Crown has front swing and front rise. It is possible to reconfigure it for front tilt too.

I personally think the crowns are great for what they can do and I do hand hold them. If more movements are essential, a reasonably light weight folder like a Tachihara or a Zone VI would be my preference. I did find the small opening and less board availability an issue with the Busch. As I recall I couldn't fit a 210mm Symmar on it.

The Tachihara's and Zone VI's that I see are quite expensive. Assuming I manage to earn better wages in the future, I would consider cameras in that price range. A beater of a TechniKardan or a Canham DLC would be fantastic. Gotta' admit that I don't trust wooden construction. As for right now, I'm making a little about 7-8$ US per hour and that is not really within reach.

Right now I'm just trying to find myself as cheap a portable camera as possible, with a minimum of 15 degrees tilt/swing and some decent rise/fall. Stubbornly I purchased a monorail for my first 4x5, and I'm finding it very difficult to use because I cannot transport it very easily. Although I'm looking to get my license this summer, I won't have regular access to a car for the foreseeable two or three years unless I stumble into a fortune. Ideally whatever equipment I have can fit into a hiking backpack so that I can bring it with me on my bike/the bus/hitchhiking.

Kevin Crisp
17-Jun-2016, 11:17
Sometimes Crowns are priced under market on Craigslist. People find them in a box in the garage and list them. I prefer the side rangefinder type.

On a very limited budget, an option is a Burke & James "Watson," which is kind of a press camera. As I recall it had basic movements. Tape up the rotating back as it will probably leak light. The best thing about this is that your pictures will look just as good as with a fancier more expensive camera. If in decent shape there is nothing wrong with wood cameras. My most used 5X7 is a pre-war Deardorff. So it's around 80 years old and going strong. Original bellows too.

Dan Fromm
17-Jun-2016, 12:28
The Tachihara's and Zone VI's that I see are quite expensive. Assuming I manage to earn better wages in the future, I would consider cameras in that price range. A beater of a TechniKardan or a Canham DLC would be fantastic. Gotta' admit that I don't trust wooden construction. As for right now, I'm making a little about 7-8$ US per hour and that is not really within reach.

Right now I'm just trying to find myself as cheap a portable camera as possible, with a minimum of 15 degrees tilt/swing and some decent rise/fall. Stubbornly I purchased a monorail for my first 4x5, and I'm finding it very difficult to use because I cannot transport it very easily. Although I'm looking to get my license this summer, I won't have regular access to a car for the foreseeable two or three years unless I stumble into a fortune. Ideally whatever equipment I have can fit into a hiking backpack so that I can bring it with me on my bike/the bus/hitchhiking.

Lessee, now. You're broke. And poor. You have a 4x5 monorail that you can't carry in a backpack. And you want to shoot 4x5.

To top it all you have requirements. To repeat them,


a minimum of 15 degrees tilt/swing and some decent rise/fall

I don't know where you got your requirements but many of us have got along with much, much less. Sell the monorail, get a Crown or Speed Graphic and find out whether 4x5 is for you.

But before you do that, consider whether a 4x5 view camera really is for you. What have you failed to do with a humble 35 mm camera that could be done with a view camera?

Bill_1856
17-Jun-2016, 13:02
Listen to Dan Fromm!
(I have, and use, a Technika IV, TR Crown, Super Graphic, and Busch. I'd recommend the Busch with side, not top, rangefinder for your needs.)

senderoaburrido
17-Jun-2016, 18:22
Lessee, now. You're broke. And poor. You have a 4x5 monorail that you can't carry in a backpack. And you want to shoot 4x5.

To top it all you have requirements. To repeat them,


I don't know where you got your requirements but many of us have got along with much, much less. Sell the monorail, get a Crown or Speed Graphic and find out whether 4x5 is for you.

But before you do that, consider whether a 4x5 view camera really is for you. What have you failed to do with a humble 35 mm camera that could be done with a view camera?

You're inferring that I'm broke.

I've got some savings, and I do a bit of bike repair/resale on the side. I'm not destitute, if that's what you think. So far I've managed to make LF photography work by making careful choices in consideration of my funds. Shooting mostly x-ray, exploiting the one-price-fits-all membership at a local dark room, waiting for one-off, under-priced deals on lenses or components. I don't think it's unreasonable to want to find a balance between versatility, quality of equipment and cost.

I think that is the experience of a lot of people who still shoot film. Shooting film can be expensive enough that even the comfortably middle class may find it a bit much.

Dan Fromm
17-Jun-2016, 18:38
I'm not destitute, if that's what you think.

Glad to hear it. Then don't compromise. Be patient, accumulate your small monetary units and when you have the price buy a lightweight field camera with the movements you think you need.

Tim Meisburger
17-Jun-2016, 19:40
I do agree with Dan on the last point. A Crown or Speed will not meet your needs. A Super might. Keep your eyes open for a Wista, or Korean Wista clone Penta (I bought one recently for $115 on Ebay). You want a capable field camera, a generalist, not a specialist like a monorail or a press camera.

docw
17-Jun-2016, 20:50
I have never even seen a Buschman but I can tell you reliably that the Super Graphic makes an excellent starter camera for 4x5. I doubt that you will run out of room with any of the front movements (lots of swing and tilt, etc.). It has no back movements, as you know, but the rotating back is really useful. If you can find one as cheap as you say, don't hesitate. It won't do everything, but it won't cost you much, and it is almost indestructible.

I used a Super Graphic for ages before getting a more sophisticated field camera. Before that I used a Crown Graphic, which was fine, but not nearly as versatile as the Super Graphic.

Don't overthink this.

Jac@stafford.net
18-Jun-2016, 06:26
I have never even seen a Buschman but [.. snip good stuff ...]

I do have a Busch model D, barely used and stored properly so I'll offer a comment. The downsides are, as mentioned, the lack of swing, but also the usual dimming / yellowing of the rangefinder, an unfortunate optical framing device (sticks, hazy). The sticking framing sight is a problem if one wants to rotate the back to vertical because it must be pushed in; it doesn't like that. Rise is not mechanically assisted as the Linhof Super Technika is (I would not care if I hadn't already used the Linhof). I would not get another.

LabRat
18-Jun-2016, 08:27
Always wanted a Pressman when I started out, but I restored one for someone some time ago, and a nice, light camera, but the things that stuck in my mind were the spring back that could only handle CFH's (no Grafmatics, pola holders, RF holders, etc), Small lensboard that holds small lenses, narrow bellows near FS that could cut off image if max movements are used, few parts/accys available, and if one is used to a monorail, movements that leave one wanting...

A Pacemaker Crown has enough movements for landscape work, or at least more than most people would use out in the field...

It is much easier to learn movements on a monorail, and then to apply that to what movements your field camera has to offer, as the movements might be there (somewhat), but you have to know what to dial in for... Many field/technical camera's movements seem to have been more of a sale's feature, but much less practical for real world use... (Don't you love those catalog pictures of some technical camera with the movements fully extended and bellows seeming to be tied in a knot, but if you looked closely, the bellows would surely have had to cut-off part of the image inside!?!!!!) ;-)

Steve K

Chauncey Walden
18-Jun-2016, 09:44
I always used Grafmatics and even Kinematics on the Busch Pressman D that I had for many years. Used 65, 90, 150, and 210 lenses on it and made my own lensboards. Also had a B&J Watson that was comparable if a little larger. They went away when I got a Linhof Technika III which has back movements which I find very handy. I did have to make one simple mod to use my Grafmatics and Kinematics in it. I loved it so much I found a second one as a spare. Each of them cost me $200 so quality doesn't always cost an arm and a leg.

LabRat
18-Jun-2016, 19:27
I always used Grafmatics and even Kinematics on the Busch Pressman D that I had for many years. Used 65, 90, 150, and 210 lenses on it and made my own lensboards. Also had a B&J Watson that was comparable if a little larger. They went away when I got a Linhof Technika III which has back movements which I find very handy. I did have to make one simple mod to use my Grafmatics and Kinematics in it. I loved it so much I found a second one as a spare. Each of them cost me $200 so quality doesn't always cost an arm and a leg.

True, usually one can add a spacer (washers) under springs to allow a little more space for thicker holders, but one really has to check the springs of an individual camera to see if this will work with that camera, as in if the camera springs are in good enough condition... Such as if the springs are a little floppy, they may not apply enough pressure to the GG panel without a CFH inserted if spaced... Or maybe an insertion RH holder is still out of the question with some cameras/backs... Depends on that individual camera...

Having a camera with a proper Graflok back makes sense to me if only to be able to remove GG panel easily to access/clean/access lens area inside camera at whim or will...

And then there's those small lensboards, and larger lens/shutters...

But OK cameras, if above conditions are met...

Steve K

Dan Fromm
19-Jun-2016, 06:37
Having a camera with a proper Graflok back makes sense to me if only to be able to remove GG panel easily to access/clean/access lens area inside camera at whim or will...

There's another reason to want a removable focusing panel. The only way to attach a lens with a rear cell that won't pass through a camera's front standard is to unscrew the cell from the shutter, attach shutter with front cell (all on board, of course) to the front standard, and screw the rear cell into the shutter from behind. Impossible and, limiting for some cameras and lenses if the focusing panel can't be removed and replaced easily.

Chauncey Walden
19-Jun-2016, 10:19
Another thing about the Busch is that a rear lens larger than the width of the front opening can sometimes be installed by approaching the camera with the board perpendicular to the front and at a 45 degree angle to horizontal thus slipping the wide part of the lens through the corners of the opening. Easier to do than describe.

senderoaburrido
19-Jun-2016, 14:25
It's making me wonder whether I should just get a cheaper Toyo 45A. There don't seem to be a lot of Super Graphics out there, period. On the high end, people try and sell them for 400 CAD, and that's about the floor for a Toyo 45A. I can save for another month or so and be just within that range.

Tim Meisburger
19-Jun-2016, 16:33
Search Rittreckview on the bay. I've bought several cameras from that guy over the last seven years. Also Toyo 4x5 A.

Good luck!