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View Full Version : 4x10 Arca Swiss/Horseman/Sinar P2 Conversion kits on Ebay



Daniel Stone
11-Jun-2016, 19:43
Hey all,

Was browsing/bumbling around e**y this afternoon, and came across some 4x10 conversion kits from a Chinese seller with the username " tssy2005 "

I don't have any affiliation with them whatsoever, but it looks like they have some cool kits to convert A standard Arca/Sinar P2/Horseman 4x5 camera into a 4x10 panoramic setup. Pretty nifty!

Simply searching "4x10 Arca Swiss" should bring it up, they have the Sinar and Horseman kits in their storefront as well.

cheers,
Dan

hiend61
13-Jun-2016, 08:38
There are various sellers offering these 4x10 backs, and for me it sounds very interesting, but I have noticed that the bellows is not interchangeable, and a bellows like the one provided, probably will not allow vertical shifts with 110, 115, 120 or 150/155 mm lenses, because of rigidity at short lengths. I shot a lot of 6x12 with a Sinar Zoom film holder in my Sinar camera, and the standard 4x5 bellows, does not allow much movements even with a 150 mm, so I must use a wide angle bellows from 55 to 155 mm lenses. If this 4x10 back would accept interchangeable bellows, an there were a wide angle bellows available, I would buy it the first day I saw the ad.
I also doubt the focusing screen will be OK for using wide angle lenses. Anyway, I would like to know from any one who has really
used one.

David Karp
13-Jun-2016, 10:22
A first hand user report would be interesting. I may have missed it, but do they say which holders work with this back?

Of course, the last thing I need is more LF stuff.

Greg Davis
13-Jun-2016, 14:59
I saw those and have also wondered what holders fit. I take it there are two types of holders? Long 4x5 size and narrow &x10?

Oren Grad
13-Jun-2016, 15:22
I saw those and have also wondered what holders fit. I take it there are two types of holders? Long 4x5 size and narrow &x10?

The two main "standards" for 4x10 that people talk about are Wisner and Canham. Way back, Tuan compiled some discussion on the topic on this static page:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/4x10.html

Beyond what was said in that discussion, Chamonix and Shen Hao have since entered the market with their own wooden holders, and I've also seen 4x10 holders of unknown specification and unknown manufacturer offered from time to time by Chinese vendors on eBay.

gchu1970
13-Jun-2016, 23:12
I just purchased one after I saw the set in the store of the manufacturer. The set was well made and looks good to use. Now the maker is making the below for me cause I'm using my Arca Swiss F-field with 110 front stand. I will be able to test it in a few days. I do have some concern on the below rigidity. From my past experience, normally the below was too rigid for the wide angle lens usage. I asked the maker to consider that. Let me wait and see the results.


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Daniel Stone
13-Jun-2016, 23:17
I just purchased one after I saw the set in the store of the manufacturer. The set was well made and looks good to use. Now the maker is making the below for me cause I'm using my Arca Swiss F-field with 110 front stand. I will be able to test it in a few days. I do have some concern on the below rigidity. From my past experience, normally the below was too rigid for the wide angle lens usage. I asked the maker to consider that. Let me wait and see the results.


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Can you ask the maker if they can start making bag bellows as an option? If they can make the bellows removable, then I think they'd have more interested buyers(like yourself) who use wide-angle lenses :)

Just a thought

-Dan

gchu1970
14-Jun-2016, 11:35
OK


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Taija71A
14-Jun-2016, 12:41
I was just 'glancing' at this item for the Horseman L Series Cameras (4X10 inch format frame for Horsman L series single rail view camera)...
--
Unfortunately, based upon the 'Design' of the 4x10 Format Frame (*And more 'specifically' how it attaches to the Horseman Rear Standard)...
I would "Not touch this item with a ten-foot pole." Sorry!

Oren Grad
14-Jun-2016, 12:47
Unfortunately, based upon the 'Design' of the 4x10 Format Frame (*And more specifically how it attaches to the Horseman Rear Standard)... I would "Not touch this item with a ten-foot pole." Sorry!

What is it about the attachment that is a concern?

Taija71A
14-Jun-2016, 12:54
151770

Oren Grad
14-Jun-2016, 13:02
Whoops - sometimes it takes someone else to point out what should be obvious! :o I'm used to Sinars and so don't usually think about the implications of the L-frame. Thanks.

Taija71A
14-Jun-2016, 13:12
No problem Oren... Understood in full.
Yes, my original comment of course... Was only 'in reference' to the Horseman L-Series Cameras.
--
Although, we would all like to own Sinar Cameras...
Some of us 'mere mortals' -- Have to settle for Horseman. :)

gchu1970
15-Jun-2016, 02:25
I talked to the manufacturer about the wide angle bellow and he will consider to provide. But any idea or suggestion that you can provide?


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hiend61
17-Jun-2016, 03:32
I saw those and have also wondered what holders fit. I take it there are two types of holders? Long 4x5 size and narrow &x10?

There are 4x10 film holders available from different sources like Canham Cameras, Chamonix, Lotus Cameras etc.

hiend61
17-Jun-2016, 05:07
I talked to the manufacturer about the wide angle bellow and he will consider to provide. But any idea or suggestion that you can provide?


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The ideal solution would be interchangeable bellows, or at lest an option with a bag bellows which allow the use of lenses from 90 to 360mm.
A SK SA 90/5,6 XL can cover 4x10 with 5mm movements. 110-125mm Wide angle lenses from the big four manufacturers are very popular and can use 27-35 mm shift in 4x10 horizontal. 150-165 mm wide angle lenses can use 90-100mm shift, like many 300-360 mm lenses wich are also very popular and need a wide angle bellows to provide all it´s movement capabilities.
As important as the bellows is the ground glass. The ground glass must provide even illumination with wide angle lenses, or allow the use of a fresnel lens on it that should be available from the maker. Using wide angle lenses in LF without a fresnel lens ground glass is frustrating and not an option in my case.

Jan Pietrzak
17-Jun-2016, 17:35
Hi to All,

I saw this thread the other day and gave it some serious thought….how can I help?....I bought my 4x10 last year, after spending a long time researching and looking for cameras….believe me I owe a bunch of prints to friends on this site after bending their tripod legs….a good friend sent me some 4x10 holders and I thought I was on my way, well yes, sort of (1 Century X-Ray, 1 Lisco Cut Film and 3 New in the box Lisco Regal X-Ray holders)….Kerry Thalmann said get the holders first, OK I did….after a time I started to realize that all 4x10 are not created equal (ie Wisner and Canham format)….the early Wisners used early 4x10 cut film and X-Ray holders….the Canham format used a split 8x10 holder….so what’s the difference the X-Ray holder are narrower and a bit shorter….some of the X-Ray holders do not have any stops on the top end….I will try to include some images so you can see the difference….if you want to see what I am doing go to the Verve Gallery page and look me up. jan
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