Affordable printer for digital negatives

[lucasleroy]

Hi, I have to buy a printer make digital negatives but unfortunately i can't try every printers with every kind of films, i have to buy the printer first, then pray, then try different kinds of films and chose the one which work the best for me. So i saw the epson SC P400 and the SC P600 but and i was wondering if someone tried them to make digital negatives or what your choice would be?
PS: i'm also looking for a densitometer
Thanks.

[cowanw]

I make digital negatives for Platinum printing on an Epson Sylus PRO 3880. Perhaps not your definition of affordable, though.
Re Densitometer, it helps if you list your locale.

[lucasleroy]

Hi, i believe the 3880 has been replaced by the sc p800 so it can't be bought as new now, only second hand for around 700€ (€ is close to dollars) and i wouldn't take the risk with a second hand printer. The sc p800 price is above 1000€ and that's too expensive, however the sc p600 for 600€ as new would be ok for my budget, but i wonder if i'd get good results once i've done all the measurements and curves that need to be done for making digital negatives.

[wager123]

take a look at the Epson 1430 makes great digital negs and priced cheep.

[lucasleroy]

Thanks, is it the one you use? Indeed it seems cheap but I can't find in france, i don't know why

[Bob Mann]

take a look at the Epson 1430 makes great digital negs and priced cheep.

Have you used this printer for negatives? It uses non pigment ink, do you get good dmax? Are you printing with silver paper, or do you use it for UV processing? I have had the impression that only Epson pigment inks would make a digital negative.

[wager123]

Bob
I don't use this printer but Jon cone says that they do . and I belive I read some where else that people where using Epson k3 in refillable carts from inkjetmall ( jon cone 0 go to the inkjetmall website and they discuss this printer

[LesleyNowlin]

Thanks, is it the one you use? Indeed it seems cheap but I can't find in france, i don't know why

I find that the Epson Artisan 1430 doesn't have the range in inks that are required to make great negatives. I'd say they make ok negs.

[jp]

Cone is testing new inks specifically for that printer and digital negative printing:
read the comments to Christian Hogue's question
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154295945130676&set=a.105231855675.119474.709080675&type=3&theater

[lucasleroy]

Nobody tried the sc p600?

[LesleyNowlin]

Nobody tried the sc p600?

I decided to purchase a SureColor P600! It was working great for about a week w/Pictorico OHP Transparency Film (TPU100). Then all of a sudden it started going through the printing motion but nothing was coming out on the paper. Then it started printing a strip on the side. I read on here yesterday that maybe I should try using Pictorico Ultra Premium OHP Transparency Film (TPS100). I just ordered some and I will let you know how it goes. Has been a very frustrating process. I had an Epson 2400 but it got old on me and broke. I really don't want to have to buy another printer.

[lucasleroy]

Thanks Lesley, which black, PK or MK, did you use ? Did you put the transparency film in the right position (there is a face and a back, i'm sorry i'm a little bit limited by the language to express myself clearly but you probably know what i mean already :) ), it's actually the printer i'd like to buy so i hope it will work with the new transparency film, i'd just would like to hear about it a little bit before i buy it.

For the Epson 1430 i still can't find in France, and if i understand well Cone did a transformation on the printer?

[LesleyNowlin]

Hey Lucas!
I heard the same thing about Cone, haven't tried it though. I'm going to see if this new Ultra Pictorico works bc when it was working (for about a week w/Regular Premium Pictorico) it made gorgeous negatives. Hoping this Ultra Pic will be read by the printer. Yes, I was using the correct side [emoji3]. I printed negatives on my Epson 2400 for about two years. Let me test this and get back to you! Shouldn't be later than Friday. Also, used PK black. Will get back soon to you.


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[lucasleroy]

Perfect ! Thank you :)

[bill2424]

Has anyone tried making a digital neg with a Canon IPF6400?

[Eric Biggerstaff]

You can make excellent digital negs on the Canon Pixma Pro-100. The price is great and you can make up to 13X19 inch negs. I have made hundreds with the printer, and it keeps going and going and going.

[Bob Mann]

You can make excellent digital negs on the Canon Pixma Pro-100. The price is great and you can make up to 13X19 inch negs. I have made hundreds with the printer, and it keeps going and going and going.

Are you using Photoshop to print and have you made any adjustment curves - I have a Pro-10, use photoshop, but have not made any adjustment curves - I am pleased with the results so far. I don't use it very often and have had no Problems with clogging.

[LesleyNowlin]

Lucas, just wanted to let you know I've had no luck printing on Ultra Premium with the P600 printer. I'm going to try using different printer settings and will get back to you. I have a feeling I'll start using my Epson 1430 Artisan again...see if I can make them look better. If I can't I'll more than likely sell this P600 for a printer that will consistently work. Weird that some people's P600s work all the time! Will keep you posted on my progress.


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[Michael Rosenberg]

You don't say whether the negatives are for silver gelatin or alternative process prints. I doubt that there is much difference in the OHP material in getting the negative to print. You need to use PK. The issue with these series of printers may be clogging of the valve that switches back and forth from MK to PK, so it would pay to run nozzle checks and head alignments to make sure you are firing on all jets.

Mike

[LesleyNowlin]

Thanks Mike. I am using PK, and the printer works fine with any other paper but film. Sensor doesn't see it. Not sure why alt-process i'm using matters for the printer malfunction? Trying some things now. Thx.


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[LesleyNowlin]

Perfect ! Thank you :)
No luck. Just tried so many different settings. It randomly made a print negative and I was so relieved. I used the same settings the next time and it didn't print. No idea what's going on. Looks like I'll have to go back to the 1430 and see if I can make them look good. Please do let me know if the P800 works as I might have to get another printer. Best of luck!

[stewe]

I decided to purchase a SureColor P600! It was working great for about a week w/Pictorico OHP Transparency Film (TPU100). Then all of a sudden it started going through the printing motion but nothing was coming out on the paper. Then it started printing a strip on the side. I read on here yesterday that maybe I should try using Pictorico Ultra Premium OHP Transparency Film (TPS100). I just ordered some and I will let you know how it goes. Has been a very frustrating process. I had an Epson 2400 but it got old on me and broke. I really don't want to have to buy another printer.

Dear Lesley, dear Lucas,
I can confirm the experience with the Epson SC P600. It is a wonderful printer for all kind of papers and I am very satisfied with the results. But for digital negative transparencies I have exactly the same issues as Lesley:
- time by time good results
- frequently, unpredictably and pretty often transparency is accepted, printer is doing printing motion, but nothing or only a strip on the side is printed
- MD ink is not working at all, PK ink time by time
- transparency material I tried: Pictorico TPU100 and Avery Zweckform 2502 (office supply transparencies that worked well with my old printer)
- tried systematically a lot of settings, but could not identify a parameter with significant influence
I printed digital negatives for about 1 year successfully on an Epson 1500W with monochrom 3rd party inks, that worked pretty well.
Any advice is very welcome, but at least I want to share my experience. Very frustrating for me as well, I am happy to read in this post that I am not the only one.

[lucasleroy]

Hi Stewe, thanks for sharing your experience, now i know i won't buy the P600, i wonder if the P800 has the same issue, i'll do some investigations and let you know what i find, otherwise maybe i'll buy it.
Did someone try the Canon Pro 1000? I'd prefer to buy epson but if they don't work.. and i'm not sure about buying an old second hand epson..

[LesleyNowlin]

Dear Lesley, dear Lucas,
I can confirm the experience with the Epson SC P600. It is a wonderful printer for all kind of papers and I am very satisfied with the results. But for digital negative transparencies I have exactly the same issues as Lesley:
- time by time good results
- frequently, unpredictably and pretty often transparency is accepted, printer is doing printing motion, but nothing or only a strip on the side is printed
- MD ink is not working at all, PK ink time by time
- transparency material I tried: Pictorico TPU100 and Avery Zweckform 2502 (office supply transparencies that worked well with my old printer)
- tried systematically a lot of settings, but could not identify a parameter with significant influence
I printed digital negatives for about 1 year successfully on an Epson 1500W with monochrom 3rd party inks, that worked pretty well.
Any advice is very welcome, but at least I want to share my experience. Very frustrating for me as well, I am happy to read in this post that I am not the only one.


Hi stewe,
thanks for the feedback. i'm glad to know that maybe now I need to move on to another printer. the P600 though prints beautiful negatives...when it would work, i agree! i tried the Artisan Epson 1430 and they print okay negatives...but not great ones. was going to see about the Piezography inks...but they only come in matte black for the 6 ink printers...so I wouldn't be able to print negatives. Lucas just told me that maybe the P800 is the way to go, with some input from someone who has printed negs on the P800 very often with great results. Might be selling this P600 for a P800 soon. Or maybe having one printer set up with b&w inks and the other one for color would be a good option...we'll see.
thank you!
lesley

[Michael Mutmansky]

Folks,

I have a P800 printer here, but I haven't tried to print a negative with it because I decided to keep my old 4800 and convert it to black-only tuned for digital negatives. That printer is working really, really well, and I'm having great success with it.

However, there are a few things that I learned long, long ago (starting with the old 2000P printer) that my be helpful with the P600 and also the P800.

The first is that some people used to sandwich a sheet of film with a sheet of paper to get the old printers to print properly. You then have to be careful that the printer can handle the thickness of the sandwich, or you may get head strikes and banding. Not sure if the P600/800 can handle the thickness. I believe the P800 should be able to.

Second, the Epson settings can be difficult. Some of the settings are specifically not for thick paper, and other ones are. Depending on the driver you are using, you may have problems with the printer getting it to accept and print on the film if there is a mismatch in the type of paper and the print driver settings. I strongly recommend that anyone trying to do digital negatives investigate QTR for printing. It avoids these problems mostly, and ultimately gives you much finer control over your negative than you can achieve using the normal Epson drivers.

Since I have a P800, I can do some tests, but I won't do extensive tests with the Epson driver, simply because I don't use the printer that way. If anyone wants me to try, let me know, and I'll see about putting a few sheets through the printer as tests.


---Michael

[wager123]

I use the P800 for my digital negs and my friend Dan Burkholder does also with no problems .
mitch

[Michael Mutmansky]

I use the P800 for my digital negs and my friend Dan Burkholder does also with no problems .
mitch

Are you using the QTR driver or the Epson driver? That makes a difference, I suspect.

[stewe]

Michael,
thanks so much for the idea of sandwiching!!! I was close to giving up van-Dyke-printing, selling my SC P600 or whatever... with sandwiching my negative printing works again! At least for 2 negatives - I will try more extensive within the next days.
What I did: "sandwich" my transparency on the lower border to a plain sheet of standard paper with a stripe of double-sided adhesive tape (as I do not use the full size of the transparency sheet, my negative is 1:1, I do not have an issue with the tape on the lower edge of the transparency, I will cut that area away afterwards). I used the standard-Epson-printer driver with my settings for digital negative print and changed only 2 parameters to match the thickness of the sandwich (as my printer driver is German, I can only try to re-translate): section "paper configuration" - paper thickness = max (13 x 0.1mm) / drum distance = max.
I will keep you updated if that success remains sustainable. And if anyone should have a technical explanation for the success of sandwiching, I am really curious.

[Michael Mutmansky]

The printer may have an 'eye' in it to ensure that there is paper present. That sensor can be fooled by the clear film into thinking that there is no paper present.

Part of the reason I asked about the driver is that QTR may not test for the paper, so it may work without that approach necessary.

However, if it is working, then maybe that will be all you need to get it going and you can worry about making good prints

[Richard Boutwell]

I have a P800 that I have done a little testing with digital negatives for Pt/Pd—it is a great printer but personally, i think too much printer for negatives alone if you are not going to print 16-inch wide negatives. Even then, a second hand 3800-3880 converted to the new PiezoDN system might be a better bet (you might need to tweak the curves a bit though).

If you are looking to get with minimal expense, then the 1430 converted to Piezography selenium inks can be a good option if you use a leader sheet to prevent the pickup/feed roller from scuffing the surface of the transparency material (and you will still need to work out the pizza wheels though). The nice thing is that you can use any number of different shades you want by using the EZ fill keys and capsules without wasting too much ink changing from one set up to another. I've used as few as 4 and as many as 6 shades for negatives with that printer for Pt/Pd and Pure Pd prints, and am testing it with Lodima/Azo more next week (the 3800 with 5-6 inks works well, but I'm hoping the smaller dots in the 1430 will be better for gelatin silver). In any case, I did find that I need to print on Ultra PremiumOHP—Inkpress and Premium OHP both bleed with that much ink.

[LesleyNowlin]

Are you using the QTR driver or the Epson driver? That makes a difference, I suspect.

Based on all of these posts, I will try using the QTR driver with the P600 tomorrow and see if it works. But I just used the QTR driver on the Artisan 1430, and it helps big time! Thanks for the suggestion, Michael!
And I will also try using the "sandwich" idea...with double sided tape.

[LesleyNowlin]

I have a P800 that I have done a little testing with digital negatives for Pt/Pd—it is a great printer but personally, i think too much printer for negatives alone if you are not going to print 16-inch wide negatives. Even then, a second hand 3800-3880 converted to the new PiezoDN system might be a better bet (you might need to tweak the curves a bit though).

If you are looking to get with minimal expense, then the 1430 converted to Piezography selenium inks can be a good option if you use a leader sheet to prevent the pickup/feed roller from scuffing the surface of the transparency material (and you will still need to work out the pizza wheels though). The nice thing is that you can use any number of different shades you want by using the EZ fill keys and capsules without wasting too much ink changing from one set up to another. I've used as few as 4 and as many as 6 shades for negatives with that printer for Pt/Pd and Pure Pd prints, and am testing it with Lodima/Azo more next week (the 3800 with 5-6 inks works well, but I'm hoping the smaller dots in the 1430 will be better for gelatin silver). In any case, I did find that I need to print on Ultra PremiumOHP—Inkpress and Premium OHP both bleed with that much ink.

I'm looking into getting the selenium inks from Piezography soon for the 1430. I couldn't get the P600 to work, but still working on it from suggestions today. I did notice that when printing (Ultra PremiumOHP) on the 1430 that a scratch of sorts appears in the middle after it's completed. Is that the pickup/feeder roller doing that? or the pizza wheels like you said? could you please tell me how to use a leader sheet? I'm not sure if this scratch is going to show up in my Pt/Pd prints. Thank you, Richard!

[lucasleroy]

Folks,

I have a P800 printer here, but I haven't tried to print a negative with it because I decided to keep my old 4800 and convert it to black-only tuned for digital negatives. That printer is working really, really well, and I'm having great success with it.

However, there are a few things that I learned long, long ago (starting with the old 2000P printer) that my be helpful with the P600 and also the P800.

The first is that some people used to sandwich a sheet of film with a sheet of paper to get the old printers to print properly. You then have to be careful that the printer can handle the thickness of the sandwich, or you may get head strikes and banding. Not sure if the P600/800 can handle the thickness. I believe the P800 should be able to.

Second, the Epson settings can be difficult. Some of the settings are specifically not for thick paper, and other ones are. Depending on the driver you are using, you may have problems with the printer getting it to accept and print on the film if there is a mismatch in the type of paper and the print driver settings. I strongly recommend that anyone trying to do digital negatives investigate QTR for printing. It avoids these problems mostly, and ultimately gives you much finer control over your negative than you can achieve using the normal Epson drivers.

Since I have a P800, I can do some tests, but I won't do extensive tests with the Epson driver, simply because I don't use the printer that way. If anyone wants me to try, let me know, and I'll see about putting a few sheets through the printer as tests.


---Michael

Thank you, if you can try just one printing with QTR, at least to know that it works without using the sandwich method (if i buy a new printer i want it to work without any tricks)? I already know it works for some people but the P600 works for some and doesn't for others so..
Also as you're a piezo user it would be interesting to compare both workflow, I wonder if the difference in tones (and maybe artefact?) would be noticeable? But that might too many tests so you really don't have too ;)


I have a P800 that I have done a little testing with digital negatives for Pt/Pd—it is a great printer but personally, i think too much printer for negatives alone if you are not going to print 16-inch wide negatives. Even then, a second hand 3800-3880 converted to the new PiezoDN system might be a better bet (you might need to tweak the curves a bit though).

If you are looking to get with minimal expense, then the 1430 converted to Piezography selenium inks can be a good option if you use a leader sheet to prevent the pickup/feed roller from scuffing the surface of the transparency material (and you will still need to work out the pizza wheels though). The nice thing is that you can use any number of different shades you want by using the EZ fill keys and capsules without wasting too much ink changing from one set up to another. I've used as few as 4 and as many as 6 shades for negatives with that printer for Pt/Pd and Pure Pd prints, and am testing it with Lodima/Azo more next week (the 3800 with 5-6 inks works well, but I'm hoping the smaller dots in the 1430 will be better for gelatin silver). In any case, I did find that I need to print on Ultra PremiumOHP—Inkpress and Premium OHP both bleed with that much ink.

Thank you, the problem with second hands pinter is that they're quite expensive(a 3880 costs 650euros), at least here in France and there is no warranty so that's why i was more into buying a new epson SC P800, but the piezography system seems to have really nice results so i wonder which differences i would have between a 1430 (called 1500W in France) with piezo and a SC P800 with epson Ink.

[LesleyNowlin]

Really looking forward to trying this new PiezoDN!!!! http://piezodn.inkjetmall.com Doesn't work on the P600 or P800 yet, but it does on the Artisan 1430...will try it as soon as it comes out!

[wager123]

I don't use QTR but the Epson driver on my P800 for digital neg's

[Randy]

I have been thinking about digital negs lately. I don't have a decent inkjet printer (gave up several years ago out of frustration) but have a small HP just for home / office use. Anyway, I converted a picture file to B&W neg and printed it on an 8X10 sheet of fixed-out Xray film. Looks like it might make a decent cyanotype.

[sanking]

I know of several persons who used the P800 for printing digital negatives and have not heard of any complaints so far about loading Pictorico. Also, based on several reports the UV blocking of the P800 inks seems higher than that of the Epson K3 inks so it is seems possible that you could get by with less ink for the same density range, thus reducing the possibility of pizza wheel marks. I would personally definitely recommend use of QTR with the P800 as you will have far more control than with the Epson driver. For those who don't understand the difference in the two drivers, QTR allows you to control the ink deposits from 0% - 100% of all the inks in the printer, the Epson driver does not allow for this type of control. QTR requires a steeper learning control, but the end results do warrant the investment of time IMO compared to printing with the Epson driver.

At this point in time it is not possible to use third-party inks (Cone, for example) in the P800, though that may change in the next few months.

IMO the Artisan 1430, with a Cone all gray inkset driven with QTR, is the best value at this time in a new printer for making digital negatives. Quality is very high with this printer due to the small picoliter size, though the paper feed mechanism and overall build of this printer is well below that of the P600 and P800 models.

Anyone who is very serious about digital negatives shoulder consider one of the large carriage professional models, such as the Epson 4800/4880, 7800/7880 and 9800/9880. Quality of the build is in general much better than with smaller printers, and these printers also use a suction mechanism to guide the film rather than the pesky spiked wheels in the smaller printers, which cause marks in many cases.

Some of the Canon and HP printers can be used to make digital negatives, but none of these printers can be driven with QTR, so I would personally avoid them.

Sandy

[lucasleroy]

So, i was thinking, would it work using that kind of film https://www.manomano.fr/bache-de-peinture-et-accessoire-de-protection/film-protecteur-autocollant-pour-surfaces-verre-68368?g=1&referer_id=537135&gclid=Cj0KEQjwj7q6BRDcxfG4pNTQ2NoBEiQAzUpuWzgbHOnZFBjsfdWAtThfRwzAkHrPKaF-7HNlX19oOyoaAlYz8P8HAQ
on the back of the transparencies ? it would protect it from the wheel and maybe give it a little bit of more density and fix the problem of the sc p600 which doesn't see any paper?
Sandy, thank you for your post which gives a good view of the situation, what would be the difference between a epson 1430 (piezo) and the P800 in your opinion?

[Tin Can]

@Sandy King,

Thanks for a concise recommendation of digital negative printers.

[sanking]

So, i was thinking, would it work using that kind of film https://www.manomano.fr/bache-de-peinture-et-accessoire-de-protection/film-protecteur-autocollant-pour-surfaces-verre-68368?g=1&referer_id=537135&gclid=Cj0KEQjwj7q6BRDcxfG4pNTQ2NoBEiQAzUpuWzgbHOnZFBjsfdWAtThfRwzAkHrPKaF-7HNlX19oOyoaAlYz8P8HAQ
on the back of the transparencies ? it would protect it from the wheel and maybe give it a little bit of more density and fix the problem of the sc p600 which doesn't see any paper?
Sandy, thank you for your post which gives a good view of the situation, what would be the difference between a epson 1430 (piezo) and the P800 in your opinion?

Considerable difference in price between the 1430 (about $300 USD) and the Epson P800 ($1300 USD). That would be important to some. Then, you get a 17" wide negative with the P800, limited to 13" with the 1430. Third, you would be able to make digital negatives with the Epson inkset of the P8000, using either the Epson driver or QTR, with the 1430 you would need to run QTR with a third party ink all gray ink set to get sufficient blocking density for most alternative processes. Still, if one is looking to get into digital negatives as inexpensively as possible the 1430 is probably the way to go, assuming you would want to use QTR for maximum control negative production. And you have something of a turn key system with the new PiezoDN system for the 1430 so you don't have to write your own profiles.

BTW, the pizza wheel guides contact OHP on the ink side so the protector you mention would not help in this regard. Unfortunately marks from the pizza wheels are going to be an issue with all of the Epson photo printers, including the 3880 and P800. The only solution I found was to remove the wheels, which may or may not introduce other problems.

Sandy

[LesleyNowlin]

Third, you would be able to make digital negatives with the Epson inkset of the P8000, using either the Epson driver or QTR, with the 1430 you would need to run QTR with a third party ink all gray ink set to get sufficient blocking density for most alternative processes.
Sandy

I printed some negatives yesterday on the 1430 with Claria ink (Epson's ink) and using the QTR driver. I haven't been able to make a Pt/Pd print yet, but I think that will tell me the answer if it works with that combo.

[stewe]

News from the P600 issue "printer head movement without printing" (Lesley and me both faced the issue in a very frustrating way):
I had some successful negative prints yesterday without the "sandwiching" approach, just by changing printer settings.

Michael gave me the the right direction with his post in the "Alt-Process Prints..."-Thread:

Is there a setting to test for the paper? On my old 4800, there is a setting in the controls somewhere that does this if I recall... You have to turn it off to print consistently with film.
I changed the following parameters in the printer menu (not in the driver):
System Administration / Printer Settings:
- Paper Source Setting / Paper Setup Display = Off
- Paper Skew Check = Off
- Paper Size Check = Off
It seems that one of this parameters led to the issue. I hope that Lesley can do a trial with her P600 and confirm the influence. And I hope that my P600 stays reliable now.
If I should face the issue again, I will keep you updated.

[Erik Larsen]

That's encouraging news Stewe! I hope it helps those whose p600 won't work out of the box.

[LesleyNowlin]

News from the P600 issue "printer head movement without printing" (Lesley and me both faced the issue in a very frustrating way):
I had some successful negative prints yesterday without the "sandwiching" approach, just by changing printer settings.

Michael gave me the the right direction with his post in the "Alt-Process Prints..."-Thread:

I changed the following parameters in the printer menu (not in the driver):
System Administration / Printer Settings:
- Paper Source Setting / Paper Setup Display = Off
- Paper Skew Check = Off
- Paper Size Check = Off
It seems that one of this parameters led to the issue. I hope that Lesley can do a trial with her P600 and confirm the influence. And I hope that my P600 stays reliable now.
If I should face the issue again, I will keep you updated.

As you know already, stewe it did!! I'm so relieved. I think someone else suggested it but I didn't know how to make the changes on my computer. So for anyone who's confused, the changes need to be made on the physical printer, not the computer screen [emoji4] thanks again to everyone. Huge help!


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[WalkerBlackwell]

@LesleyNowlin just fyi, the CISS that comes with the 1430 may make Piezography printing easier depending upon how much you print. We haven't released it yet but shot the instructions video and should have it up on the youtube by early next week.

Otherwise, just refill carts suffice in the interim (they just run out super-fast).

best,
Walker

[WalkerBlackwell]

Both SCP600 and SCP800 have dither problems with QTR no matter what ink and dig-neg is a no-go until that is fixed. Working on tracking this down.

best,
Walker

[Richard Boutwell]

Both SCP600 and SCP800 have dither problems with QTR no matter what ink and dig-neg is a no-go until that is fixed. Working on tracking this down.

best,
Walker

with "any ink" do you mean even with Epson K3?

How do you guys check for that when testing things with QTR?

[WalkerBlackwell]

yeah, all ink.

We test with our eyeballs

[Tyler Boley]

... We test with our eyeballs

;)

[joncone@cone-editions.com]

Lesley, if it's not too late I would not buy a printer if I were you. Just get a free one locally.

The 4900, 7900, 9900 have a tendency to lose ink channels when on OEM inks and then become useless to the person/studio owning it for color work. Many people are upgrading and junking these printers. PiezoDN needs only 7 working channels and these X900 printers all have 10 channels (11 inks). We can then show you how to map out the unused channels. So, instead of buying a printer, you buy a set of Piezography glossy compatible inks and the PiezoDN software and use those on a free printer.

This is not actually far-fetched as it sounds.

When we were at Maine Media installing our system it was on a 4900 missing a channel. While there, Alan Vlach put an ad on a users group asking for a free 7900 to use with our system and he got one in less than an hour. There are tons of these discarded X900 printers out there.

So, you will be doing an incredible service to someone to go and pick up their useless printer and recycle it for your own needs. Avoid ones that have been sitting in corners for years. Try and get a fresher one that has been recently demised. Piezography pigment is ground finer and obviously filtered more than OEM. So, you can extend the life of a demised printer many years. And if you have one with only one missing channel. Put the other two in PiezoFlush and reserve them for future use.

That's my two cents worth.

Jon Cone




Hi, I have to buy a printer make digital negatives but unfortunately i can't try every printers with every kind of films, i have to buy the printer first, then pray, then try different kinds of films and chose the one which work the best for me. So i saw the epson SC P400 and the SC P600 but and i was wondering if someone tried them to make digital negatives or what your choice would be?
PS: i'm also looking for a densitometer
Thanks.

[LesleyNowlin]

Lesley, if it's not too late I would not buy a printer if I were you. Just get a free one locally.

The 4900, 7900, 9900 have a tendency to lose ink channels when on OEM inks and then become useless to the person/studio owning it for color work. Many people are upgrading and junking these printers. PiezoDN needs only 7 working channels and these X900 printers all have 10 channels (11 inks). We can then show you how to map out the unused channels. So, instead of buying a printer, you buy a set of Piezography glossy compatible inks and the PiezoDN software and use those on a free printer.

This is not actually far-fetched as it sounds.

When we were at Maine Media installing our system it was on a 4900 missing a channel. While there, Alan Vlach put an ad on a users group asking for a free 7900 to use with our system and he got one in less than an hour. There are tons of these discarded X900 printers out there.

So, you will be doing an incredible service to someone to go and pick up their useless printer and recycle it for your own needs. Avoid ones that have been sitting in corners for years. Try and get a fresher one that has been recently demised. Piezography pigment is ground finer and obviously filtered more than OEM. So, you can extend the life of a demised printer many years. And if you have one with only one missing channel. Put the other two in PiezoFlush and reserve them for future use.

That's my two cents worth.

Jon Cone

Thank you, Jon!
I have a P600 and an Artisan 1430. I was planning on using the PiezoDN with the 1430 eventually. Thanks for the feedback!
Lesley


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[Richard Boutwell]

yeah, all ink.

We test with our eyeballs

One of your recent IJM newsletters said this P series dithering issue isn't a problem with K3 inks and QTR, so I'm just curious what methods you use to make these kids of judgments. Is it just any print or some special targets or resolution test charts?


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[WalkerBlackwell]

Frankly this is up to one's personal opinion. It's certainly not up to the Piezography standard . . . as set in all previous printers, applications, and dither-patterns so far.

best,
Walker

[williaty]

So I'm tossing my hat into the ring on this (maybe... hopefully...). Assuming I was OK with being limited to 13" wide prints and went with the Epson 1430, I'd need to buy:

Epson 1430
PiezoDN software
QTR software
PiezoDN K6 Selenium Inkset
Something to put the ink in inside the printer

1) Is there anything I'm missing?

2) Which is the best inkhaus? ReUsable Cartridge Kit, EasyFill Keys, or CISS? I've installed a CIS before on an Epson printer looooong ago. Might have been a 1280. It was whatever was hot and new from Epson in about 2001 or so. The CIS system always struck me as smart, but I'm not sure I'll do enough volume to keep it happy.

[Willie]

If you are still looking this Canon deal may be worth it. Have to rely on getting a Rebate - but after it comes back you have a 13 inch printer some on here say works well - for $50.00

PIXMA PRO-100 for $50 AR at Beach Camera via eBay
Posted August 26, 2016 at 7:42 pm. 27 comments.

PIXMA PRO-100 Printer
PIXMA PRO-100 Printer

$49.99
595 Sold
Tweet

canon-pixma-pro-100-big1000-11402671032

Authorized Canon USA dealer Beach Camera via eBay has the Canon PIXMA PRO-100 plus 50 sheets Pro Luster photo paper for $49.99, after a $250 mail-in rebate.

This is a fantastic price; the ink alone goes for over $100. The price is $299.99 in-cart, then you get a mail-in rebate to net $49.99. The current rebate period is from July 1st to August 31st, you can only buy one printer during this period.

http://www.canonpricewatch.com/

[joncone@cone-editions.com]

We recommend the CISS because negatives use a lot of ink and the last thing you want to do is have to pause to refill carts. However, the CISS must be made 100% PP or/and PE in order to use our encapsulated pigment ink.




So I'm tossing my hat into the ring on this (maybe... hopefully...). Assuming I was OK with being limited to 13" wide prints and went with the Epson 1430, I'd need to buy:

Epson 1430
PiezoDN software
QTR software
PiezoDN K6 Selenium Inkset
Something to put the ink in inside the printer

1) Is there anything I'm missing?

2) Which is the best inkhaus? ReUsable Cartridge Kit, EasyFill Keys, or CISS? I've installed a CIS before on an Epson printer looooong ago. Might have been a 1280. It was whatever was hot and new from Epson in about 2001 or so. The CIS system always struck me as smart, but I'm not sure I'll do enough volume to keep it happy.

[bobbotron]

Lucas, just wanted to let you know I've had no luck printing on Ultra Premium with the P600 printer. I'm going to try using different printer settings and will get back to you. I have a feeling I'll start using my Epson 1430 Artisan again...see if I can make them look better. If I can't I'll more than likely sell this P600 for a printer that will consistently work. Weird that some people's P600s work all the time! Will keep you posted on my progress.


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Hi Lesley. I know this is an old post, but could you comment a bit more on what you liked/didn't like about digital negatives from the 1430? Are you printing straight from black and white negatives, or did you perform a test print like described here ( https://chrislh.wordpress.com/2010/06/26/cyanotypes-and-digital-negatives-calibration/ ) to figure out which ink blocks UV the best?

[LesleyNowlin]

Hi Lesley. I know this is an old post, but could you comment a bit more on what you liked/didn't like about digital negatives from the 1430? Are you printing straight from black and white negatives, or did you perform a test print like described here ( https://chrislh.wordpress.com/2010/06/26/cyanotypes-and-digital-negatives-calibration/ ) to figure out which ink blocks UV the best?

Hi there,
I can't really say b/c I figured out how to print on the SureColor P600 really well and I haven't gone back to the 1430. I do remember that printing it straight as a b&w neg the ink was very thin. It didn't produce a rich b&w but looked faded a bit. Hope that helps a bit.

[Eric Biggerstaff]

I use the Canon Pixma Pro-100 with excellent results. I use Dan Burkholder's system and enjoy it. The ink is pricey but the printer is a steal and has been very very dependable for me.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=canon%20pixma%20pro-100&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ps

[bobbotron]

Hi there,
I can't really say b/c I figured out how to print on the SureColor P600 really well and I haven't gone back to the 1430. I do remember that printing it straight as a b&w neg the ink was very thin. It didn't produce a rich b&w but looked faded a bit. Hope that helps a bit.

I ended up buying a 1430. I've had good success with it, they might look thin but they block UV light for cyanotype really well.

[LesleyNowlin]

I ended up buying a 1430. I've had good success with it, they might look thin but they block UV light for cyanotype really well.

That's great!!


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[Matt Magruder]

Does anyone have any direct experience with the Epson SureColor P400? (as opposed to the P600 and P800 mentioned a bunch in here)
Any feedback would be great appreciated.

[Richard Boutwell]

I don't think this would be a very good option for the inks it uses. There are no light black dilutions so all the blocking density would be coming from the PK and color inks. You will get spotty/grainy midtones and highlights if you use the OEM inks.

You might be able to put in an all gray inkset in there, but for the money, it would be better to go with something like the 1430 and use a dedicated inkset, or a refurbished 3880 and switch to PiezoDN or leave it UCK3 and use my new QuickCurve-DN system. (http://www.bwmastery.com/quadtoneprofiler-digital-negatives)

[andrewch59]

Considerable difference in price between the 1430 (about $300 USD) and the Epson P800 ($1300 USD). That would be important to some. Then, you get a 17" wide negative with the P800, limited to 13" with the 1430. Third, you would be able to make digital negatives with the Epson inkset of the P8000, using either the Epson driver or QTR, with the 1430 you would need to run QTR with a third party ink all gray ink set to get sufficient blocking density for most alternative processes. Still, if one is looking to get into digital negatives as inexpensively as possible the 1430 is probably the way to go, assuming you would want to use QTR for maximum control negative production. And you have something of a turn key system with the new PiezoDN system for the 1430 so you don't have to write your own profiles.


BTW, the pizza wheel guides contact OHP on the ink side so the protector you mention would not help in this regard. Unfortunately marks from the pizza wheels are going to be an issue with all of the Epson photo printers, including the 3880 and P800. The only solution I found was to remove the wheels, which may or may not introduce other problems.

Sandy

I have been researching the sc-p800 myself for digi - negs, by chance I went to one of the 3rd party ink supply sites to look for cheaper alternatives to the AU$600 plus quote for inks, they were also selling a door switch for the p800?? Interest aroused I investigated further, the shortcut will lead you to the story, but basically it stops those pizza/pinwheels from engaging, the site is for the 3880. There is also a you tube vid showing how to re-use the old maintenance cart. Has made up my mind to get the P800
https://jkschreiber.wordpress.com/2016/08/08/how-to-disable-star-wheels-on-an-epson-3880 (hopefully the same for the p800 as claimed)

[maagareal]

Hi everybody,
i wanted to reopen this thread because i am also looking for a printer to make own negatives
for palladium prints. i like the p600 (maximum i can afford and makes good "normal" paper prints),
and would like to ask the people who have the printer, if the issues are still occuring and if you
would still recommend it?

How is the experience with the piezography? For what i saw on the first glance, the inks and so on are really expensive. It is only for black and white, right? Is it easy to switch between the inks, for example once the inks from piezography
are empty?

thanks a lot for your help and answers

Henrik

[LesleyNowlin]

Can't answer your question about piezography, but my P600 does work really well. I've had no problems since it was solved. (I couldn't get it to print on film).
I've heard great things from friends and other artists that piezography works great. Sorry I can't answer that fully.

Lesley


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[Kleiny41]

You can make excellent digital negs on the Canon Pixma Pro-100. The price is great and you can make up to 13X19 inch negs. I have made hundreds with the printer, and it keeps going and going and going.

Eric, I have a Pixma Pro-100 and I had been wondering if I could make decent digital negatives. Can you tell me what product you are printing on?


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[bob carnie]

My experience over the years is that most of the Epson printers work well with quad tone rip... I have actually not seen one that did not... I am not sure about the other makes of machines.

[sanking]

My experience over the years is that most of the Epson printers work well with quad tone rip... I have actually not seen one that did not... I am not sure about the other makes of machines.

Only Epson printers can be run with the QuadToneRIP driver. There are other RIPs that can be used with Canon and HP printers, but they are very expensive and not as good for making digital negatives as QTR.

It is definitely possible to make digital negative with the Canon Pixma Pro-100, and with other Canon and HP photo printers, and if you work hard enough at it you can make very good negatives with these printers.

But if you are buying a printer to make digital negatives an Epson with QTR offers the ultimate in control of the process. And the current generation P600 and P800 printers work as well with QTR as the previous generation of Epson printers, though profiles from the other printers must be optimized for the new printers since their inks are more efficient blockers of UV light.

Sandy

[Attack]

p800 works fine for a digital negative with OEM ink.
requires a very light curve (compared to CANON imagePROGRAF 8400)
p800
172666
CANON imagePROGRAF 8400
172667



Hi everybody,
i wanted to reopen this thread because i am also looking for a printer to make own negatives
for palladium prints. i like the p600 (maximum i can afford and makes good "normal" paper prints),
and would like to ask the people who have the printer, if the issues are still occuring and if you
would still recommend it?

How is the experience with the piezography? For what i saw on the first glance, the inks and so on are really expensive. It is only for black and white, right? Is it easy to switch between the inks, for example once the inks from piezography
are empty?

thanks a lot for your help and answers

Henrik

[Andrew O'Neill]

I just picked up a used 3800 really cheap off of Craigslist. It replaces my old 4000. Prints very nice diginegs using QTR (all black inks). The ink however, was crazy expensive!

[sheel]

I use the Canon Pixma Pro-100 with excellent results. I use Dan Burkholder's system and enjoy it. The ink is pricey but the printer is a steal and has been very very dependable for me.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=canon%20pixma%20pro-100&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ps

Hi Eric,

Thanks for the info. I have a Canon Pixma Pro 9000 mk ii that I bought many years ago, I believe it's the direct predecessor to the Pro100, but with only one black/mono cartridge.

I'm trying to learn about how to get started in carbon transfer but I'm very confused on this digital negative process, particularly with the Canon.

Which ink are you using?
Do you need special print drivers for the Canon, or are you using the standard drivers + photoshop?
Any other tips or resource links I can refer to for the Canon?

Thanks,
Sheel

[Kleiny41]

I am considering purchasing the Epson P600 and keep reading a wide range of reviews. Some clearly love the printer and some seem to have had all sorts of issues. Are there any P600 users that had issues or warning signs early on?


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[Erik Larsen]

I am considering purchasing the Epson P600 and keep reading a wide range of reviews. Some clearly love the printer and some seem to have had all sorts of issues. Are there any P600 users that had issues or warning signs early on?


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I use the P600 and it has been trouble free for digital negs. I use the oem ink.

[quixical]

News from the P600 issue "printer head movement without printing" (Lesley and me both faced the issue in a very frustrating way):
I had some successful negative prints yesterday without the "sandwiching" approach, just by changing printer settings.

Michael gave me the the right direction with his post in the "Alt-Process Prints..."-Thread:

I changed the following parameters in the printer menu (not in the driver):
System Administration / Printer Settings:
- Paper Source Setting / Paper Setup Display = Off
- Paper Skew Check = Off
- Paper Size Check = Off
It seems that one of this parameters led to the issue. I hope that Lesley can do a trial with her P600 and confirm the influence. And I hope that my P600 stays reliable now.
If I should face the issue again, I will keep you updated.

This worked like a dream for me until last month, when I updated the P600 software. It didn't change my settings, but it's gone baclk to just printing a strip down the left hand side of the paper.

Anyone else has the issue and found a solution?

Many thanks