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View Full Version : How to disassemble a Sinar P2 standard?



Theodoros
2-May-2016, 13:11
Hi everybody,

Can somebody please help?

I have the front standard swing mechanism of my Sinar P2 busted... It looks like that some "teeth" of the rail have been wear off... I think if I'll be able to take the plate off, I can cut off and replace the rail with a same gear one made out of phosphoric brass, Can somebody that have disassembled a Sinar P/P2/X standard help me as to where to start? ...Otherwise I will have to do it the "blind man's way" and I'm afraid I may start disassembling parts that need not to... Thanks in advance.

Peter De Smidt
2-May-2016, 17:34
Maybe send an email to Bob Watkins at Precision Camera Repair and ask for his input?

Theodoros
3-May-2016, 13:43
Thanks Peter, I guess I've got nothing to lose in doing so, I should have said that I'm located more than 4000 miles away from Bob though... In most cases, qualified technicians want to have a look on the equipment themselves before they can come up with an advise... I'll drop a mail to Bob, but if a member of the forum can also help, he is welcomed to do so...

Peter De Smidt
3-May-2016, 14:14
I have the Sinar service manual for a P, but not for a P2. If that would help, send me pm. I have a P2, but I haven't taken it apart.

Theodoros
3-May-2016, 14:47
Thanks again for the input Peter, PM sent!

Theodoros
3-May-2016, 15:22
Kudos to Peter for helping so much.... No more feedback is needed. Despite the fact that I will now be able to fix the problem and even improve upon the original part (I have an engineering MechEng degree), one can't help to notice that the busted rail is made out of ....Plastic! If it was a metal one the problem would have never occurred!

Luis-F-S
3-May-2016, 16:08
one can't help to notice that the busted rail is made out of ....Plastic! If it was a metal one the problem would have never occurred!

It's probably a sacrificial part to keep something more expensive from breaking.............L

Peter De Smidt
3-May-2016, 18:48
I expect Luis is right. You might still be able to get the plastic parts cheaply from Sinar. You could a few years ago.

koh303
3-May-2016, 19:11
I expect Luis is right. You might still be able to get the plastic parts cheaply from Sinar. You could a few years ago.

if you can quote a US source that is willing to sell a sinar part, please do.
I called ALL listed US Sinar dealers, and none would help, most did not know they are sinar dealers.
Sinar themselves gave me 2 contact partners (Fotocare and another one) who strictly refused to offer any parts.

koraks
5-May-2016, 09:49
As I understand from a guy around here who does a lot of trading in second hand Sinar gear, it seems that Sinar won't sell non-user-replaceable parts for their cameras anymore. Basically anything that involves getting out a pair of pliers or a screwdriver to replace, will not be sold to you by Sinar. I'm not sure what the thinking behind this is, but perhaps it's to make sure users send their cameras in for repairs to registered Sinar dealers for reasons of quality control and channel protection. Either way, when it comes to getting parts, it seems that second hand trading and donor cameras will be the way to go from here on.

koh303
5-May-2016, 11:42
perhaps it's to make sure users send their cameras in for repairs to registered Sinar dealers for reasons of quality control and channel protection.
No, its just a way to squeeze out another buck, comes from old photo people, who think its still the 80's and sinar is a big deal.

Theodoros
5-May-2016, 12:29
I think you are both saying the same thing in different words and you are both right too... The view camera market has squeezed considerably over the past two decades, to the extend that only knowledgeable photographers that get involved with their equipment and look at it as being a necessary tool for their work still think of it as the most important part of their photography... Thus, the photographer that is using the tool needs to fully integrate the design approach as to extract most of its potential and capabilities... From that POV, for the user to fully familiarise with the tool is a natural consequence which -of course- is against the financial expectations of the maker as to create profit out of it. I wouldn't trust any technician to repair my equipment for me, especially if there is no spare part needed, or if I can make a replacement part myself that can improve on the performance of the design.

The Sinar P is the most thoughtful design ever out of all IMO (up to today) and I can support that opinion by backing it up with enough reasoning if a conversation about that is brought up, but there are silly decisions that have been made by Sinar in its production (like using plastic parts that can fail in important positions for the camera's long term performance) that are not in line with the quality of the design, or the price of it, or even the ethics behind the company policies when it comes down to customer support. Heck, you don't make a metal gear to clime over a plastic rail... do you? It's basic ethics of common sense engineering not to do so... Especially if it's not part of the (marvellous) design to do so, but only a production decision as to make the part cheaper!

Stephen Thomason
5-May-2016, 13:27
I've got a couple of Sinar's that have the quick release frame - maybe all do, for that matter. HOWEVER, on a couple of frames I can loosen the little bolt that is supposed to hold the frame, the frame loosens, but WILL NOT let go. I realize it is a cam locking system, but at NO position of the bolt will the frame come off the standard.

I've got some Sinars that do, so I am doubly confused............

Anyone have magic words or secret hand positions or precious knowledge that will help me get the frame off the standard??? What in the world could be holding it on??

Armin Seeholzer
5-May-2016, 14:01
I've got a couple of Sinar's that have the quick release frame - maybe all do, for that matter. HOWEVER, on a couple of frames I can loosen the little bolt that is supposed to hold the frame, the frame loosens, but WILL NOT let go. I realize it is a cam locking system, but at NO position of the bolt will the frame come off the standard.

I've got some Sinars that do, so I am doubly confused............

Anyone have magic words or secret hand positions or precious knowledge that will help me get the frame off the standard??? What in the world could be holding it on??

The Sinar X has the frame fix on it not like the P or P2, so if you have an Sinar X it will not let go the frame! So you can the X not change to other formats, like the P & P2!! Hope it helps!

Armin from Sinar land!

Stephen Thomason
5-May-2016, 14:11
Hey Armin. I've got the P's. Sinar P's that is!!

Jac@stafford.net
5-May-2016, 15:16
When it comes to lost cause photo equipment, I like to refer to the last page in any military instructions about disposal: "Destroy. Grenades will suffice."

B.S.Kumar
5-May-2016, 16:49
The Sinar X has the frame fix on it not like the P or P2, so if you have an Sinar X it will not let go the frame! So you can the X not change to other formats, like the P & P2!! Hope it helps!

Armin from Sinar land!

I used to own a Sinar X with the supposedly non-removable frame. There is a screw that needs to be removed. I cannot recall the location of the screw after so many years. At that time, I wanted to know if I could replace the standard frame with a Sinar Carrier Wide Frame for my then new-to-me Sinarback 54H. Later models of the Sinar X have the removable frame, I believe.

Kumar

Theodoros
6-May-2016, 03:27
I used to own a Sinar X with the supposedly non-removable frame. There is a screw that needs to be removed. I cannot recall the location of the screw after so many years. At that time, I wanted to know if I could replace the standard frame with a Sinar Carrier Wide Frame for my then new-to-me Sinarback 54H. Later models of the Sinar X have the removable frame, I believe.

Kumar

Exactly right, the Sinar X frames are exactly the same as of the P and are removable, Stephen may have got a P2 that has Sinar X frame on it by mistake, or on purpose if he got it second hand... One will never notice unless if he tries to remove the frame.
As of the Sinarback 54H, I use one of these (FW version) along with a Hasselblad CF-39MS back... Its image quality for stills is just unbelievable... It will beat any drum scanner if used to digitise a large sheet of film too in 16x true colour mode... Just use a Kaiser lightbox and shoot the film in 16x mode using a good MF lens (I use the Zeiss 120mm f4 APO micro of the Contax 645 at f11 for the job), you can get any resolution you want out of the film too if one stitches two or more 16x shots together... Unbeatable results!

asf
6-May-2016, 12:52
I believe the screw on the X is right at the bottom center of the frame

A Sinar repair tech told me years ago there was a good reason to use plastic instead of metal for certain parts/gears, something about them wearing out either way and being easier/cheaper to replace if made of plastic (where the metal would have meant more parts to replace) for most users.

It was long ago, seemed to make sense and I trusted the tech wasn't bs-ing me, then again I'm not an expert at these things.

Theodoros
6-May-2016, 15:25
I believe the screw on the X is right at the bottom center of the frame

A Sinar repair tech told me years ago there was a good reason to use plastic instead of metal for certain parts/gears, something about them wearing out either way and being easier/cheaper to replace if made of plastic (where the metal would have meant more parts to replace) for most users.

It was long ago, seemed to make sense and I trusted the tech wasn't bs-ing me, then again I'm not an expert at these things.

He made it up... :) Many employs of companies develop a biased approach (the "all the company does is genius" thing) on the company's products... I guess it's natural... :rolleyes:

B.S.Kumar
6-May-2016, 15:49
Exactly right, the Sinar X frames are exactly the same as of the P and are removable, Stephen may have got a P2 that has Sinar X frame on it by mistake, or on purpose if he got it second hand... One will never notice unless if he tries to remove the frame.


I believe the screw on the X is right at the bottom center of the frame

Yes, thanks for reminding me, Adam.

Earlier models of the Sinar X cameras came without format changing ability i.e., the long screw used to detach the frame was replaced by the screw at the bottom of the frame, making people believe that the frame could not be changed. Later X models came with the regular long screw.

Kumar

woollymw
7-Nov-2016, 15:24
Hi Peter

I have just been reviewing this thread as I have a Sinai P2 upright that has been over extended on the swing rotation, and will not drive back. I am looking at whether I can dismantle this carefully and try to re align it. I noted that you mentioned that you had access to the servic manual for the P camera. If you still had this would it be possible to get hold of a copy. Best Regards

woollymw
7-Nov-2016, 15:25
My email address is woolly.mw@gmail.com

asf
9-Nov-2016, 11:08
Sent you an email with the Sinar manual

kogino
4-Jan-2017, 20:45
Sent you an email with the Sinar manual

Hi there...

I'm havng the same problem here... can I get the Sinar P service manual so I can study it? PM if possible...

Thanks a lot!!!

Stephen Thomason
5-Jan-2017, 10:46
Hey there! Please please please I also need a copy of the service manual for my Sinar P. stephenthomason@hotmail.com

asf
5-Jan-2017, 10:50
Hey there! Please please please I also need a copy of the service manual for my Sinar P. stephenthomason@hotmail.com

check your email, it's a large pdf

kogino I need your email address as well

kogino
5-Jan-2017, 16:32
Thank you all who contacted me!!

I had the chance to get some parts for my P2. I will try to make the repair myself (very carefully of course). If I'm successfull I will do a video tutorial and post it in my youtube channel.

Wish me luck!!!

Thanks!!

ariom.L
7-Apr-2018, 06:38
I also need Sinar P service manual, Please kindly email me a copy ariom.leung@gmail.com

Thanks a lot!

asf
7-Apr-2018, 07:05
Check your email, sent you Dropbox link


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Stan Snowball
12-Nov-2018, 13:43
Would it also be possible to send me a copy of the Sinar P service manual?
Thanks a lot in advance,
Stan. (stansnowball@gmail.com)

asf
12-Nov-2018, 13:49
sent you a link

bracan
13-Nov-2018, 09:31
check your email, it's a large pdf

kogino I need your email address as well

Me too:)

bracanadezdic@gmail.com

Advance thanks!