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neil poulsen
14-Apr-2016, 17:31
This last weekend, I picked up a Sinar Norma camera at a swap meet.

Seeing that the front standard accepts the rods that hold a Sinar bellows in front of the lens as a lens hood, I purchased a 4x5 bellows, a couple of rods, and the two clips needed for holding the bellows onto the rod. But, inserting the rod into the Norma front standard, the bellows-lenssahde is tipped counter-clockwise by about a 15-20 degree angle. It's not straight up and down, as one would expect.

Am I missing a part or something? Were different clips made for Sinar cameras, that would hold the bellows lens-stade at the correct angle?

Jason Greenberg Motamedi
14-Apr-2016, 19:04
Unfortunately this is one of the few things that are not interchangeable between Sinar models. Norma cameras need Norma clips:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?78919-hex-rods-and-lens-shades-for-Sinar-Norma

neil poulsen
14-Apr-2016, 19:42
Thanks for the info. Hmm. Have to think about this one.

Still a great camera, though.

neil poulsen
14-Apr-2016, 21:27
Looking at the situation, I can think of two decent solutions.

EASIEST: Get a Sinar F front, XL version standard. This would solve two problems, the first being the bellows and rods that I have would fit just fine. As to the second, the Norma front standard that came with the camera doesn't offer much more than an inch or so rise. The XL version would solve this problem.

EASY: Marry a Toyo (later model) compendium hood to a Sinar Norma auxiliary standard. By removing the rear, circular assemblage from the Toyo hood, and by removing the stainless still hardware that holds the bellows on the Sinar standard, the former appears to be a perfect fit for the latter. All it would take is to drill four, small holes into the standard to join the two. Very light weight, and easy to pack. I have both hood and the standard, so I was able to directly compare the two.

Jerry Bodine
14-Apr-2016, 23:02
Neil, I too fell into this trap some years ago, and I found no convenient workaround. I tried to resolve it by using a Sinar "jointed rod" (shown on p. 3-11 here (http://www.kennethleegallery.com/pdf/Sinar_system_katalog.pdf)) but it didn't work either. One of my concerns was to be able to use the Norma filter holder on the front standard as it was designed to be used, then be able to use the 4x5 Norma square bellows as a shade supported independently of the front standard and slide it over the filter holder. The only convenient way to do that would be to use a Norma Multipurpose Standard at each end of the bellows, but that arrangement would be rather clumsy in the field (ok in studio, though). There's a Norma MP Standard on the *bay now, and they show up rather frequently, if you decide to go that route. They can be beaters for this purpose if you're not too fussy.

Struan Gray
15-Apr-2016, 00:14
The Norma clips show up on eBay all the time, and usually are not expensive. You can use the same rods (or a standard pencil).

For field use, I have a Lee self-supporting hood attached to a 105 mm adapter. This screws into the Norma filter holder. Quick to assemble, and you can rotate the whole hood out of the way if you need more access to adjust shutter settings.

neil poulsen
16-Apr-2016, 08:27
. . . For field use, I have a Lee self-supporting hood attached to a 105 mm adapter. This screws into the Norma filter holder. Quick to assemble, and you can rotate the whole hood out of the way if you need more access to adjust shutter settings.

That's an excellent idea. So, one can easily correct for the rotational problem on Normas.

Struan Gray
16-Apr-2016, 10:46
That's an excellent idea. So, one can easily correct for the rotational problem on Normas.

The hood rotates in the holder, so aligning it with the standards/film edges is no problem at all.

I don't know of there were later filter holders. I'm talking about the ones that look like a Sherlock Holmes magnifying glass without the glass. These rotate around the hex rod, so you can flip them out of the way of the lens if desired. A more modern one would presumably have the stops at the wrong angles, but you could still use it to hold the hood and/or Lee filters in front of the lens.

I cut down a hex rod to form a minimal stub, which is fixed to the standard the whole time. Makes setup quick - I just attach the holder to the short rod, and the hood to the adapter ring. I have a longer rod in the place for it inside the rail in case it is needed.

The only downside is that there can be a gap between the back of the hood and the lensboard. With lenses in 0,1 and 2 shutters, you can just slide the filter holder rearwards until it is over the board. No. 3 shutters it's a bit of a bodge, and you can foul the cocking lever. I thought about making a sock to put behind the holder, using the rejected rings that would normally hold the filters in, but I've never had a light leak or flare, and I use a lens in a No. 3 shutter a lot.

Jerry Bodine
16-Apr-2016, 14:52
...I don't know of there were later filter holders. I'm talking about the ones that look like a Sherlock Holmes magnifying glass without the glass. These rotate around the hex rod, so you can flip them out of the way of the lens if desired. A more modern one would presumably have the stops at the wrong angles, but you could still use it to hold the hood and/or Lee filters in front of the lens.
...

Struan, I'm curious about the comment I've made bold. When Sinar made the change in hex rod holder location from the side of the Norma front standard to the lower location on later cameras, do you know if they maintained the same distance from the lens axis to the hex rod axis? If not, then a "later" filter holder - held at the Norma hex location - may not position a filter/hood axis properly at the lens axis.

norma,my mistress
18-Apr-2016, 12:14
Hi Guys,
I addressed this problem by making an adapter (not my idea however, was a thread on this forum from last year):

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?124497-Sinar-Norma-Compendium-Hood-Adapter

I cut up an old flash rail for the aluminum bar and the hex spacers can be easily acquired at radio-shack in the us (I assume at least, I am in Germany and I got the parts from Conrad). You can get the hex spacers with all combinations of male and female threads as well as lengths-possibilities are endless. For those who spoke of using the sinar filter-holder above- no problem, just screw a short hex-spacer onto the front of the bar (i.e. through the bar and into the hex spacer that is being held by the front standard).

All I needed was a hack-saw, a file and a drill. It takes some fooling around to get it set up, but it works quite well once it is. Tighten the spacers well and use some locking nuts/ and or washers.

Struan Gray
18-Apr-2016, 12:30
Jerry, you're right. It is possible there is a further incompatibility. I only have Norma gear (I'm not a purist, I bought a complete outfit cheap) and haven't had the need to shop for other filter holders, so it's possible there are things out there in ebayland that won't work.

Anyone with an F or P tried one of the old Norma filter holders?

The dog-leg stub adapter is a great idea. The old Norma clips work, but the modern ones are much more positive.

neil poulsen
19-Apr-2016, 09:39
Here's a solution for a Sinar Norma compendium lenshood. The following links to a DIY thread, that more fully describes this project.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?130361-Compendium-Bellows-Lenshood-for-Sinar-Norma-Cameras&p=1324244#post1324244