A Silly Idea? Taping Film to Holder

[J. P. Mose]

I am new to 8x10 and have a silly question: Is it possible to place a thin piece of double stick tape between the surface of the film holder and the back center of 8x10 film? I was thinking the would ensure that the film doesn't buckle out. I also considered the importance of reducing the stickiness on the side of the tape that makes contact with the film so nothing transfers on to the film upon removal.

Is this feasible without damaging the film or am I completely out of my mind?

Thanks for your inputs!

JP

[Robert C. McColloch]

The latter. Make sure you buy quality film holders.

[Dean Tomasula]

It's certainly possible, but why in the world would you want to do it? All you'll get for your trouble is an image of the tape in the middle of your negative.

[J. P. Mose]

Dean...If the tape is on the backside of the film (against the film holder) how would there be an image of the tape?

[Emmanuel BIGLER]

Didn't Sinar propose such a sticking 8x10 holder in the past ?

[Oren Grad]

JP -

The Sinar Adhesive holder...

www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=48196&is=REG (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=48196&is=REG)

... does something like that.

[J. P. Mose]

The B&H Photo website server is down. Are the Sinar holders costly? I bought a couple of new Toyo holders and felt guilty for spending so much money on them!

[Oren Grad]

Are the Sinar holders costly?

Yes, absurdly so. When I clicked on the link a moment ago the price listed was $564.50 each.

[Benno Jones]

A used Sinar Adhesive 8x10 holder sold on eBay the other day for around $200.

[J. P. Mose]

As I recall, the Toyo holders were about $120 each and I thought that was high!

[Jan Nieuwenhuysen]

It's a perfectly sound idea. You can also use a light splotch of not too strong spray adhesive in the center of the holder.

[george jiri loun]

The main problem with this solution is the choice of the adhesive tape. A normal double sided scotch is sometimes too strong on the film.

[QT Luong]

I've done that in a couple of occasions when I had very long exposures and wanted to make sure the film wouldn't shift. The problem will be in unloading the film. The tape will prevent you from sliding it out.

[David A. Goldfarb]

I think there is a spray for restoring the tack on the Sinar holders. You might just look for such a repositionable adhesive sprayed in a small spot in the center of the holder. Too much, and I think the holders will be difficult to load. Personally, I don't think I've ever really had a problem with buckling, but I don't often do things like long exposures with the camera pointed straight down. I think the attraction of a sticky holder is for complicated multiple exposures, where you want to be able to remove the holder, recompose and refocus, draw lines on the groundglass to position everything precisely, and reinsert the holder and be confident that the film hasn't moved.

[Michael Rosenberg]

I have been doing this with the Fuji Quickchange System (a system similar to Grafmatics, but made of plastic). After a few uses the tabs on the septums no longer hold the film and it tends to slide resulting in jams, or the film buckles due to humidity changes (live in NC) and the film will pop out of the septums resulting in a jam.

I have tried various double stick tape, and various positions. I place the tape near the notch so that I can slide my finger nail under and displace it. I use the permanent and non-permanent tape made by Tombo (Lawrenceville GA) which I purchased in the local art store. It comes in a small rolling applicator that I can put in my changing tent. It will leave a minimum of residue, or even none, on the film.

I have found that the comon double stick tape one buys at the pharmacy will sometimes come off on the film, and have tried various double stick tapes sold by Light Impressions, but the Tombo applicator is easier to use than fiddling with small pieces of tape.

Regards,

Mike

[CP Goerz]

One way to stop the tape from sticking too much is to dab it against your T-shirt before popping the tape to the platen. Keep the holder side sticky and the film side slightly less so by the method I mentioned. Its not really that important for 4x5 and 5x7 since the film is stiff enough to hold its own shape but in 8x10 and up it gets a little floppy and can shift during downtilted camera positions.

CP Goerz.

[Dean Tomasula]

It was a joke. Maybe I should have used a smiley face. Obviously it wasn't a funny on. Sorry.

[Andrew O'Neill]

I use very thin, doubled-sided tape all the time. It really helps keep the film against the back of the holder especially when camera is pointed down. I once had a sheet of 8x10 film slip in the holder during a two hour exposure. I also do what Andrew Glover suggested. Lesson the stickiness by dabbing the tape first on your shirt. If you don't, you'll have a tough time removing the film...believe me!

[tor kviljo]

I have used this many times, mostly on 8"x10" to keep thin-base 8"x9 1/2" sheets cut from Aero-films in place. Works excellent. I use a small part of 3M "stick-it" with sticky side out - fastened in centre of holder with two lengths of ordinary tape. Care is to be taken when removing film, but it works OK. I have used this methode also when using thin aero-film in Grafmatic holders as these tended to jam with the thin-base film curving outwards now & then. Test your choice of glue/tape using a surplus sheet of film: any trace of glue will be easily visible on the shiny back surface. However, my 3M "stick-it" woked OK.

[jose angel]

My experience was bad. I try this in the past and now I have two damaged expensive fidelity film holders. The adhesive tape disolved the finish of the metal base, and now there are white strips on them; if you don´t love your holders it could be a temporary clumsy solution. Perhaps another tape would work, mine was not 3M, thought.

[Bruce Wehman]

I do this frequently when shooting sunrises. It prevents the film from popping when the sun hits a cold camera. The only thing you need to do differently is to store the film face-to-face. If a little adhesive pulls off and comes in contact with the emulsion it will tear out a little chunk. The shiny surface of the adhesive won’t affect the image. You can put a pencil mark on the slide just above the tape and push the film against it just before you insert the holder into the camera. Test it a few times before using good film. As mentioned, it helps to fuzz up the adhesive a little to relieve its aggressiveness and use a very small piece – no larger than ¼” sq.

[David Vickery]

Unless you are doing the kind of studio work that David A.G. mentions this is completely unnecessary and may cause more problems than it supposedly solves. Thousands of people have used thousands of 8x10 film holders for over a hundred years now and they ( and I) never had problems with film buckling in the larger film holders. Except for very specialized situations, its a myth!

[Ellis Vener]

When I was assisting in a commercial studio in the early 1980s we would use a small piece of double stick tape near the center of the holder for the infrequent occasions that we shot 8'x10" and the camera was tilted down toward the set. Mostly these were shots of jewelry and watches and even at f/45 or f/64 (on Kodak Ektachrome EPR 64) every bit of flatness helped. If you are doing work where the camera isn't pointing down I'm not sure it will be worth your while to do this.

[Andrew O'Neill]

Okay David V. if it's a myth then how do you explain my sheet of film shifting in it's holder?? Notice I said "shift" not buckle. By placing tape I never had this problem again. I just used cheap double- sided tape. I discovered that sometimes sheet films aren't cut exactly the same size. This can cause shifting. I hope shifting never happens to you.

[james mickelson]

If there was a large problem, or even a small problem with film buckling a lot then there would be a lot of people using this solution. But with all of the billions of 8x10 images made in the last 90 or so years, there hasn't been a need for it. There are occassional pops and buckles but this shouldn't be a huge concern I wouldn't think. The film stays fairly flat 99.9999999999% of the time. I wouldn't worry about it at all. Even my ancient holders keep the film fairly flat even when shooting up in the Bristle Cones at sunrise in the fall. If the film is going to deform, it will deform around the tape anyway. Always shoot both sides for the same image. Film is cheaper than going back to shoot it again if anything is amiss.

[David Vickery]

Hey Andrew,
Yes, there is a big difference between shifting and buckling. The "Buckling" that many have worried about on this forum and others is the myth. Shifting; however, is completely different. But I would still maintain that tape is Not the answer to that problem. I have found that film may shift in any film holder of any size, but it is most likely to happen in 4x5 film holders. The best way to solve this problem is to tap the bottom(whichever side is down) of the film holder just before you insert it into the camera back. In my experience shifting is most likely to happen when the film holder is in the vertical position. When I first started with 4x5 work about 15 years ago I had a hard time understanding why the first of two duplicate exposures had sort of a double image and the second exposure was always good. It was usually on vertical images and it took me a long while to figure out that I needed to seat the film before inserting the holder into the camera. And again, I think that using tape is more trouble than it is worth by a long shot.

[J. P. Mose]

Well I am glad I asked the question. I honestly thought that film "pop" was much more of an issue with 8x10. I think what led me to this impression are threads on lens comparisons. I have often read that film flatness is more of a concern than minor differences in lenses....this led me to believe that this is a common problem.

I am new to 8x10....a lot to learn! Thanks for you help.

[Clifton Posey]

I use 8x10 sinar adhesive film holders and they add a degree of sharpness not possible without them! They use a 3M adhesive pad in them and are very flat and well made holders. With product photography that generates hundreds or thousands of dollars per shot, $539 is not bad. I bought one off ebay recently for less than $200.

Clif