Portraiture with M7ii

[Tony_5130]

Hi guys:

I guess you all know how difficult it is to do portrait photography with LF gear.
I am mulling over the idea of treating myself to a Mamiya 7ii for general reportage stuff and wondered (prior to saying goodbye to some heavy bunce) whether it is useable for portraiture.
More to the point, with a standard 80 lens, how much model/background am I going to capture?
Any one out there got any examples of people shots under studio conditions?
Or would I be better off buying a prosumer digital toy?

[Edward (Halifax,NS)]

The 80mm lens for the Mamiya 7 is killer sharp. I think that would be very unflattering for portraiture. I also think using a rangefinder would be difficult for studio use. I would suggest an slr with an older 150mm lens or a dedicated soft focus lens. Have you considered using a rollfilm back on your LF gear? Most normal lenses would be good for 6X7 portraiture.

[Ron Marshall]

Tony, on the Mamiya website they list the maximum magnification (at close focus) for their lenses. I had the Mamiya 6 (about the same reproduction ratio), a great camera for travel, but none of the lenses focussed closely, so tight head and shoulder shots were not possible.

[Juergen Sattler]

Why not look into a used Mamiya RB-S. They are dirt cheap on the auction site and so are the lenses. They have a 150mm soft focus lens which is ideal for portraits. The back rotates for either landscape or portrait shots. I bought a complete outfit (body, prism finder, 90mm lens, 120 back for less than $400).

[Scott Rosenberg]

the lenses for the mamiya 7 tested at 0ver 100 l/mm... some of the sharpest ever. not your best option for portraits.

[Arne Croell]

I have the 7 II and its a great travel camera when LF is not an option. As others mentioned, none of the lenses focus close, so close portraits just showing the face are _not_ possible - this is also true for the 150mm lens.

[Ted Harris]

Edward,

First, let me challenge your statement "you all know how difficult it is to do portrait photography with LF gear." Many of us do not think it is difficult, just very different. No doubt you lose some of the spontaniety ofshooting with a smaller format but that is not necessarily bad, just different. There are a number of things you can do to make a sitting less tedious for your subject. Example, I always things nominallysetup using a dummy before engaging the subject so that only final lighting and focus adjustments normally need to be made.

Having said all that I think th eidea of doing portraits with the Mamiya 7II is fine. Personal taste to a certain extent but I like and always have liked rangefinders, find them faster and more accurate to use than SLR's. I use a /Fuji GW690II for 6x9. I agree that the 80mmlens is likely not the way you willwant to go though. The 150 is perfect for portraiture but, as already mentioned, you will not be able to get very tight head shots because of its minimum focusing distance of 5+'. Should be simple enough to try out in a store. It is not your only option though, there is little difference between the current 7II and the earlier 7 and you willsve a bundle buying used (Midwest Photo usually has them in stock). There are also a number of MF SLR's that can work for you. The RB has already been mentioned (waaaay big and clunky for my taste but preference again). I use a Rollei SL66 for portraiture and lots of other stuff where I need to shoot fast and change film fast (I carry a couple of backs when working hot and heavy). Great Zeiss optics and fast to use. You know allthe other options I am sure.

If you have chosen the Mamiya system because you oprefer to work witih a rangefinder then stick with it if it meets your needs. But you willwant to try it first. If Midwest or Badger have a used camera and lens available they will let you try them out.

[Steve Hamley]

Tony,

Traditional portraiture with the Mamiya 7II is doable, but above and beyond the call of duty if you're doing anything critical or more often than incidental. The 150mm is difficult to focus critically at wider apertures, and waist-up shots are about the best you can do since 6 feet is the closest focus.

Steve

[Edward (Halifax,NS)]

Ted, I think you mean Tony.

[Tony_5130]

Try as I might, my old MPP (and me) are just not quick enough for most sitters especially the young, as they can't sit still for more than 20 seconds. It takes me that long to put the film holder in the camera.

I had not even thought of the Fuji til you mentioned it, do you have an online gallery anywhere.
I am not sure I truly understand the sharpness issue, I feel confident with a bit of darkroom creativity I can soften the image. Or perhaps I could use a poor quality UV filter smeared with something opaque.
I did think about an old RB, as you rightly say, they can be picked up at yard sales for the square root of nothing but they are not exactly reportage handling.

100 lppm, that's really something!

[Edward (Halifax,NS)]

"100 lppm, that's really something!"

From f/4 to f/8 it is more like 120lpmm. As for the sharpness issue, you will be able to see every wrinkle or blemish on the persons face. I don't know how effective the softening methods you mentioned would be.

[jose angel]

I am in the same opinion as above. I consider the Mamiya 6&7 a very good support or assistance to LF. Rangefinders in my opinion are not the choice for portraits; however they save me in a lot of situations. I have two M6 bodies, one of them always fitted with a 150 for this kind of work . For closer portraits I usually take a Nikon with a 135 or 180. I shoot mostly outdoors.

[John Flavell]

Reportage handling?

SLR is still the best for the close-up portrait. The Mamiya lenses may be "tack sharp", but that means nothing if you can't use them to meet your needs. The Nikkor 135 and 180 lenses are tack sharp and can be used to meet your needs. If you want the larger negative, the Pentax 67 SLR may be an option. Even prices on used Hasselblads are looking good.

I noticed not much in the way of digital mentioned above. That's a shame as they do have a purpose and could help you solve your problem.

[Ted Harris]

Edward, I did mean Tony, sorry! Tony, The Fuji 690 is not gonna get you there for head and shoulders portraiture either. The 670 might but still don't think so. Closest focusing with the GW690 is 1 m. Now, the old Fuji with interchangable lenses would do nicely if you can find one in good working order. The 690II's and III's are tanks but the interrchangeable lens guys are a bit finicky. Another thought what about the old Mamiya Press 23 and in all its various incarnations?

[Robert Skeoch]

I didn't find a rangefinder that great for portraits.
I just use a blad.
Not the answer you were looking for I'm sure.
-Rob

[Henry Ambrose]

"Portraits" covers a lot of ground and most any camera qualifies in the largest sense of the word. A Mamiya 7 is great for "environmental portraits" or "two people mid-chest up" or "a small group portrait" but a Hassleblad can do that AND great "head and shoulders portraits" as well -- or an RZ, RB, various 645s etc. Any of those cameras and a couple of lenses and you're all set.

That said I think the Mamiya 7 is a great all-around camera but if you want close up abilty its not a good answer. As far as the Mamiya 7's sharpness goes you can always use gentler film like Ilford Delta 3200, a Softar filter or diffusion in printing. Its easy to soften an image and impossible to sharpen something thats soft on the neg. And with a 6X7 negative you can crop a bit and still have a decent film area to print from while getting tighter on the head and shoulders.

So for "head and shoulders portraits" ONLY buy an SLR. For more general use the Mamiya 7 is a great camera, light and handy to carry.

[Kevin Crisp]

Late model (IV or Va or Vb) Rolleicord is cheap, sharp, and focusses too close. Available on a famous auction site for $100 and up.

[Frank Petronio]

After hundreds of rolls through Rollei TLRs, Fuji 6x9s, Hasselblad 500s, and even a full Mamiya 6 outfit, I came to the conclusion that medium format is always a compromise. Other than the Rollei 2.8 TLR, most have slow lenses or mirror slap that make handholding questionable. And if you're going to use a tripod anyway, why not pull out a field camera?

Once I found a Leica/Summilux and/or a Nikon DSLR at ASA 1600 with a 1.4 lens - now those are handholdable. The this winter I was taking full moon night shots handheld!

[Mike Davis]

For kids, I would probably use the RB67. I've had a Pro-S for a little over a year and I really like it.

But... I shot two sets of portraits of the same subject. One set was with the RB the other with my Toyo-G. Out of 20 frames with the RB and a 180, I had two that I really liked. Out of 8 with the Toyo, I had two as well. The subject is an an actor, responds well to direction, and I've been friends with him for 27 years. So on personal aesthetic grounds, I think that its a wash.

On the other hand, the closeups that I was able to get with the Toyo and a 210 Schneider resolved to the pinpoints of his Oxford shirt, the fibres of his wool vest and the pores of his face. I wanted the detail, the five o'clock shadow, the worry lines of his forehead. The large negative helped to give it to me. These weren't glamour shots nor head shots for directors. I wanted to capture him in a way that stripped the illusion and replaced it with reality.

So in the end, I think it depends on what you want. Maybe the 7 will work, maybe you should get and RB, maybe you could find a C220 or C330 that you liked, but maybe the best camera is the one that you already have.

[Tony_5130]

Frank:

You seem to have some knowledge of digital.

Whilst the part of my first question about hand-hold-ability was largely overlooked (pretty much discounting the RB) the bit about "Digital Toy" was in all honesty a serious consideration.
I found that with most of the portrait stuff I have done in past most people are happy with a print of about 16" X 20".

Do you feel this is a realistic goal for, say, an 8mp snapper or do I need to re-mortgage my house and get 16mp or even 22mp?

[Dominique Labrosse]

Don't discount handholding the RB. It's fun.

DL

[Don Wallace]

Has anyone considered using a Crown/Speed Graphic with roll film back? The focus can be cammed and you can use a mask on the viewfinder for whatever format you are using (4x5, 6x7, 6x9).

[Frank Petronio]

I think with good technique and careful Photoshop work, you can make pleasing portraits with a (now $800) Nikon D70 or Canon Digital Rebel or anything similar. Some of the all in one cameras are nice for snapshots, but the DSLRs allow for using a 50/1.4 or similar open aperture - short depth of field prime lens, which are better for portraiture than the typical slow zoom lenses most amateurs use.

But the portraits will be different than what you would take with a Rollei, or a Hassy with a 150 "classic portraiture" lens, or a 4x5 with a 300mm. They all require different working methods, and I find the subject responds differently to the photographer based on how the photographer is responding to them (and dealing with the camera.)

For example, Nicholas Nixon makes seemingly quick, decisive moment images of children with an 8x10 camera. Obviously he has a lot of practice. But go look at the photo.net leica forum and you'll see plenty of staged, stiff snapshots taken with what should be the ideal camera for capturing the decisive moment (a Leica).

Nothing beats practice and experience... You can use almost anything to make a great picture, and part of the fun is experimenting. My own hassles with eBay aside, it is a great time to buy gear, experiment, sell it and try something else.

My own preference is to go dramatically one way (DSLR) or the other (4x5) because the working methods are so different, it gives me the ability to switch gears and work the situation. I love many of the images I made with medium format, but I try not to be so romantic as to get bogged down by any particular piece of gear.

[darr]

Tony,

I own a 7II and love it. However, it did take a little bit of shooting for me to see where its application and design was best suited. With the 65mm lens I find it to be fast, sharp and lightweight for walk around shots. For portraiture that would require the use of a standard type portrait lens, (i.e. the 150mm portrait lens), I found it to be very disappointing.

I retired as a professional portrait photographer a few years ago. My equipment of choice back then was Hasselblad and Mamiya RB67 cameras. When I first purchased the 7II I quickly looked for a used 150mm lens and viewfinder (a must have for that lens) so I could continue my portrait making tradition on a personal level. I found myself disappointed with the whole rangefinder-portrait lens experience. Composing and focusing with the 150mm and viewfinder was difficult; almost unnatural. I sold the 150mm lens and the viewfinder after I realized the beauty of this camera for me was in the walk around shots with the 65mm lens.

Now days when I want to do a quick portrait, I use my Pentax 67II or Nikon F3. When I want to do a large format portrait, I use my Ebony. You can shoot large format for portraiture if you plan for it in advance.

darlene boharsik
www.CameraArtist.com (http://www.CameraArtist.com)