First Meter advice

[FredrickSummers]

Hey everyone. My first post was here, asking if there was anything I was missing. Many chimed in suggesting a light meter, and I fully expected that, but I didn't expect how strongly it would be needed. I've read MANY posts and articles on different meters, but asking for personal opinion. Its also a little difficult to understand fully some of it as the only experience I have with a light meter is the in camera meter in my A99 and Minolta A9 as well as the MyLightMeter (Pro) app I just installed on my iPhone 6+.

I was planning on using the iPhone meter (I've read its quite accurate and its something I use with me anyway for a timer and reciprocity failure data on 35mm. I plan to shoot 95% landscape type shots with my 4x5, and I know there will eventually be a need for a real light meter, but has anyone used this app for this purpose?

Currently I have 3 spot meters I've been looking at the best (Minolta spot meter was eliminated due to being shutter priority instead of Aperture priority).

1) Sekonic 558 - Most modern, I don't mind digital/buttons (I'm an IT at work and do web programming on the side as well), but I think this might be overkill for me as I use ZERO flash. I do like the ability to measure the range of a scene to see which film I should shoot (normally Ektar if outside the +/- 2 range of Velvia 50).

2) Pentax Digital spot meter - I see this one being the most popular on this form, and I have to say I really do like the simplicity of it, though I don't understand how to use it yet (I'm sure I could figure it out if I actually got to see one). The down side is these are quite pricey.

3) Soligor spot meter - I don't find much of these, but those I hear like them. They look very similar to the Pentax, and best of all seem to go for around $75-$100 range on eBay.

Thanks everyone!

[fishbulb]

Another option would be the Pentax Spotmeter V, which is the analog version of of the Pentax Digital Spotmeter. If you search eBay for just "Pentax Spotmeter" you will see them with an analog dial on the side.

They look like this (tan, grey, and black version are out there) and can be had used for $100-150. Higher end of that for nice condition ones with the original leather case and lens cap. Less for beat up ones missing the case and cap. They use three small hearing-aid batteries that you can get at any drug store.

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This is the only spot meter I've used, so I can't speak to the others, but it's a good option on a budget anyway. You just look through the lens, point the marked circle at what you want to meter, pull the trigger and it reads the EV of the scene (1 to 19). Then you turn the dial on the side to match up your meter reading vs. the desired zone of the target.

So if you meter a scene ranging from 8EV in the shadows to 12EV in the highlights, you turn the dial on the side and line those up with say, zones 4 to 8. Then the dial will tell you what shutter speed and aperture combinations will get you that exposure, given the ISO you pick. So, it's great for the zone system.

[John Kasaian]

We can all recommend our favorite light meters, but what I think is good might not be what you think is good.
You can spend all kinds of money on light meters, and unless you're going to follow Ansel's zone system from the get go (in which case you'll need a spot meter,) I'd suggest something simple and economical to start out with. Once you start making pictures, you'll better know what you want and can spend your hard earned moolah where it will give you the best return.
Light meters are like wire coat hangers----they tend to multiply when you're not looking!
I have at least three: a Gossen Luna Pro SBC, a Weston Ranger 9, and a Weston V (or is it a IV or VI? I should really pay more attention to these things)

[BrianShaw]

You can't go wrong with any of the 3 you are thinking about. The 558 will give you the most flexibility - flash metering when you need it but more importantly it gives you incident metering capability. Plus it allows for multiple measures, which helps for scene analysis, and averaging if that is appropriate. For me the 558 was an outrageous amount of money to spend on a meter but was one of the best gear purchases I ever made.

[BrianShaw]

... But as John said, do some soul searching to determine how you want to do your exposure determination. For most flexibility I'd say the 558; for zone system I'd say either of the other two. Truth be told, I can do most photography with a much less expensive meter as long as it will do incident metering.

[Alan Gales]

Read up on the Zone system and decide if you want to follow it. If you do then the Pentax spot meters are very easy to use. I own 2 digital versions and 1 of the older analog versions.

It you are not interested in the Zone system then pick up an incident meter.

How you meter is a personal thing. You use the meter that works best for you. I wouldn't say one type is best always. I've seen plenty of great photographs that were taken without a meter and using the Sunny F16 rule although I wouldn't recommend it for expensive large format film. :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunny_16_rule

[Luis-F-S]

Put a zone scale on the Pentx Digital and it's a no brained. L

[peter schrager]

Pentax digital rules!

[Jim Jones]

The brand or style of meter isn't as important as how well it is used. My preferred meter for the past many decades has always a Weston Master II, although many newer meters are more versatile.

[plapczynski]

If you do look at an older meter that takes a battery that is no longer manufactured, the substitute battery can have a voltage difference that must be compensated for mathematically or electrically.

That was a really short explanation for something that could have taken paragraphs, if you are going to get used, and there is nothing wrong with used, your probably want to check the battery requirements.

[Light Guru]

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Love this thing! I would recommend adding a Zone System sticker to it.

[Luis-F-S]

Pentax digital zone sticker. L

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[angusparker]

Pentax digital rules!

Agreed!

[Ray Heath]

Don't forget that its more important how you use it then what you use.

You've elliminanted one because its the wrong 'priority', you do realise the one is tied to the other.

[Doremus Scudder]

There are two basic types of metering: averaging and spot. Incident meters average the light falling on the subject. Averaging reflected meters average the light coming from the subject. Either way here you are basing your exposure on a middle value of the range of illumination/luminescence. You must learn how your meter works and learn how to interpret the reading, deviating from the suggested exposure whenever the illumination (incident meter) or average subject luminescence (reflected meter) deviates from "average." This latter is typically how most in-camera meters work and with which you are likely most familiar. There are modifications, such as center-weighted metering, etc. that attempt to ameliorate some of the problems inherent with averaging meters. Still, if you use these intelligently, they can be quite reliable and consistent. It does require you to evaluate overall contrast and whether the averaged reflectances of a particular scene end up being lighter or darker than what your meter "thinks" is average.

A spot meter measures reflectance from a small area of your subject. This requires you to choose an area of the scene on which to base your exposure. If you choose anything other than a middle grey, you have to know how to adjust the exposure accordingly. The advantage of a spot meter is that you can determine the range of subject luminescences very easily and immediately know if your subject is medium, low or high contrast. This is most useful to those of us who develop their film according to the contrast range of the subject, i.e., sheet-film users. Since this is a large-format forum, I assume that's you're planning on using sheet film as well. That said, there are many who base their exposure on a shadow and just use a "normal" development scheme, relying on changing paper grades at the time of printing to manipulate the contrast of the final print (or use digital post-processing to control contrast).

Using a spot meter in conjunction with different development schemes involves basing your exposure on a shadow value that you want to be rendered in the final print as a specific shade of dark grey. This is called "placing" the shadow. You then use the meter to check other mid and high values in your scene and see where they "fall" on an exposure scale. If the subject is low-contrast, the high values won't fall where you want them to, so you can compensate by lengthening development time. The opposite if the scene is contrastier than normal. The classic exposure/development system for sheet film is the Zone System as written about by Ansel Adams and others. If you find this approach appealing, then do read up on it first before deciding to buy a meter so you have an idea of what's involved.

FWIW, I'm a Zone-System practitioner and swear by my Pentax digital spotmeters; they all have Zone System stickers and are among the easiest meters to use with the Zone System; intuitive, rugged and with no bells and whistles. If you need flash metering, however, the Pentax digital is not for you.

Best,

Doremus

[Darin Boville]

Another vote for the Pentax Digital. Here's what people are talking about with the sticker. You can make it at home. People use Roman numerals but you can better imagine it as little patches of gray, from black, to dark gray, to middle gray, to light gray, to almost white, to white.

The basic idea is this. Point your Pentax meter at a spot in the scene and get a reading. Say it says "9". Then you can look at the dial (rotates) and find the 9. Spin the dial until the 9 is next to whichever patch of gray you like. So if you had pointed the meter at a very dark area of the scene you'd probably want to "place" the 9 next to one of the dark gray patches. Don't touch the dial anymore. Now measure other parts of the scene, get other numbers, and see where those numbers "fall" as compared to your patches. If what you want as white is showing up next to a darker patch or is falling off the scale you'll need to adjust development (not exposure) to move the white-ish tone to where you want it. The meter tells you this.

If you like what you see the dial (which you haven't moved) will tell you your f/stop and shutter speed combinations. Simple, simple, simple.

That's basically it. It is as easy as that to get rolling. Don't over think it. Everything else is fine tuning.

--Darin

[Ken Lee]

"First Meter"

Since it's your first meter, consider it like your first camera: you shouldn't hope to get it absolutely right because you don't know what you don't know. Start using one and start learning. You can refine your approach later with experience.

After many years of experience, some people use an incident meter most of the time but keep a spot meter on hand for special cases...and vice versa :rolleyes:

[Neal Chaves]

[QUOTE=John Kasaian;1320669]"We can all recommend our favorite light meters, but what I think is good might not be what you think is good.
You can spend all kinds of money on light meters, and unless you're going to follow Ansel's zone system from the get go (in which case you'll need a spot meter,) I'd suggest something simple and economical to start out with."

An essential part of Adam's teaching was testing of film speed and development times by the individual photographer. If you attempt to use the data in "The Negative" as you would the recipe in a cookbook you will not produce a negative capable of making the print you visualized. Tri-X or HP5+ developed in HC110B @68* for 5:00 as Adams suggests will produce an excellent negative, but the speed is closer to 64 than the 160 Adams suggests. If you want a normal negative with box speed, with just a touch less highlight and shadow detail, try 7:30.

[plaubel]

They use three small hearing-aid batteries

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The original small batterie isn't available anymore, but you can add with a normal batterie; hearing aid batterie here isn't necessary.
Ritchie

[MAubrey]

The Sekonic L-488 is a respectable alternative to the higher end one and can be had for $100, for what it's worth. I've never felt the need to upgrade.

[fishbulb]

The original small batterie isn't available anymore, but you can add with a normal batterie; hearing aid batterie here isn't necessary.
Ritchie

Well you can get them other places but a pharmacy is almost guaranteed to have them. I use three Duracell 303/357 1.5V batteries, stacked, in my Pentax Spotmeter V. Conveniently, they are typically sold in a three-pack.

[FredrickSummers]

Thanks everyone! I made a low offer on a Pentax meter I didn't expect to get accepted but did, so that will be coming this week. I really like the look and ruggedness of that one. I will have to figure out how to apply it to color/slide, but I think I have an idea of it. I'm sure it won't be my last, but I will pair this with my iPhone light meter app (use it as an incident meter I guess).

[dpn]

If you got a Pentax Spotmeter V, I'd recommend sending it to Richard Ritter for calibration. Mine was significantly out of calibration when I purchased it, but Richard got it working perfectly, quickly, and inexpensively.

http://www.lg4mat.net/page4.html

[FredrickSummers]

If you got a Pentax Spotmeter V, I'd recommend sending it to Richard Ritter for calibration. Mine was significantly out of calibration when I purchased it, but Richard got it working perfectly, quickly, and inexpensively.

http://www.lg4mat.net/page4.html

Thanks, I may do that. Mind if I ask roughly what that costs?

[fishbulb]

If you got a Pentax Spotmeter V, I'd recommend sending it to Richard Ritter for calibration. Mine was significantly out of calibration when I purchased it, but Richard got it working perfectly, quickly, and inexpensively.

http://www.lg4mat.net/page4.html

You can also check and adjust the baseline calibration of the meter pretty easily.

See page 23 of the owners manual, which is available here: http://www.butkus.org/chinon/flashes_meters/pentax_spotmeter_v/pentax_spotmeter_v.htm

[Doremus Scudder]

Thanks everyone! I made a low offer on a Pentax meter I didn't expect to get accepted but did, so that will be coming this week. I really like the look and ruggedness of that one. I will have to figure out how to apply it to color/slide, but I think I have an idea of it. I'm sure it won't be my last, but I will pair this with my iPhone light meter app (use it as an incident meter I guess).

Frederick,

For negative materials we expose for the shadows. For positive materials like transparency film, we expose for the highlights.

When I used my spotmeter for transparency films I simply metered the brightest thing I wanted to keep detail in (white dress, white water, clouds, etc.) and then opened up two stops. Bracket a bit at the beginning and you'll find the correct amount to open up for your film/working method.

Best,

Doremus

[dave_whatever]

Get a Pentax digital spot, then your first meter can also be your last/only meter. It'll save you money in the long run.

[FredrickSummers]

Frederick,

For negative materials we expose for the shadows. For positive materials like transparency film, we expose for the highlights.

When I used my spotmeter for transparency films I simply metered the brightest thing I wanted to keep detail in (white dress, white water, clouds, etc.) and then opened up two stops. Bracket a bit at the beginning and you'll find the correct amount to open up for your film/working method.

Best,

Doremus

I knew about exposing for the shadows on negative, but I did not know about exposing for the highlights on slide, thank you very much! For Velvia 50 I know you don't really want the scene more then +2/-2 overall. I'm planning on carrying Ektar and Velvia 50 for my main colors (for landscapes) for that reason. Ektar if there is a lot of contrast, Velvia if it isn't outside the range.

I've not got the meter in yet, but from what I gather when you meter it turns the EV side, so when you say meter for the shadows or meter for the highlights you mostly use the value the meter gives you for say the deepest shadow you want exposed? (ie, I know I want f22 for the focus, so meter for the deepest shadow I want to appear and then use the shutter speed it gives for f22, or should I move the metered shadow to "zone 3" to better keep the rest of the details too?

Thank you for the tips!


Get a Pentax digital spot, then your first meter can also be your last/only meter. It'll save you money in the long run.

That's what I'm hoping! It should arrive tomorrow! I like the size and its apparent ruggedness.

[Doremus Scudder]

I knew about exposing for the shadows on negative, but I did not know about exposing for the highlights on slide, thank you very much! For Velvia 50 I know you don't really want the scene more then +2/-2 overall. I'm planning on carrying Ektar and Velvia 50 for my main colors (for landscapes) for that reason. Ektar if there is a lot of contrast, Velvia if it isn't outside the range.

I've not got the meter in yet, but from what I gather when you meter it turns the EV side, so when you say meter for the shadows or meter for the highlights you mostly use the value the meter gives you for say the deepest shadow you want exposed? (ie, I know I want f22 for the focus, so meter for the deepest shadow I want to appear and then use the shutter speed it gives for f22, or should I move the metered shadow to "zone 3" to better keep the rest of the details too?


The meter turns nothing. It just gives you a reading in the viewfinder. You then turn the rings to line up the EV value the meter gives you with where you want to place it. The easiest way to "place" a value is with a Zone Dial sticker like the ones illustrated here: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/articles/ZoneDial.pdf (you may have to log in to see the article). I think you can print the sticker from the article as well.

At any rate, get the Zone sticker or dial for your meter (you don't say if you've got the Pentax V or the newer digital spotmeter).

The manual way to do that is simply find the exposure for the EV the meter gives you opposite the index mark. This is middle grey or Zone V. Subtract exposure to "place" the reading in lower zones, e.g., give two stops less from the middle reading to place the value in Zone III. To place in higher zones you add exposure; give two stops more exposure to place the Zone V reading in Zone VII.

Best,

Doremus

[fishbulb]

^ yep.

I made my own sticker for my Pentax Spotmeter V (analog version), similar to this image below. You can also buy stickers on eBay, I believe for both the analog and digital versions.

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So this dial reading in the image would show, for example, I metered a scene (by looking through the spot meter) and found that the brightness of the scene ranged from say, 2 EV to 6 EV.

I rotate the dial on the side of the meter, matching up the EV readings I saw (lowest band of numbers) with the Zones (sticker).

So in the image above:

- what I metered at 2 EV (darkest) is in Zone 3 (shadows)
- what I metered at 4 EV is in Zone 5 (midtones)
- what I metered at 6 EV (brightest) is in Zone 7 (highlights)

Then the top of the dial will consequently give me the possible combinations of aperture and shutter speed, at a given ISO.

In the image, this is ISO 100, f/22, 30 seconds. Or, you could choose something else, like f/16 and 15s.

The concept on other types of spot meters is the same - match up your EV readings with the zone you want to put them in.

[Bill_1856]

using a light meter = good exposure. Calibrated light meter = better exposure. Light meter + brain = usually better-yet exposure. Experience (with or without light meter) gives best exposure of all.