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RobertCovington
27-Mar-2016, 05:47
I have over a 100LBS of Sheet 4x5 sheet film ranging from the 1950s-1990s. Its all Kodak Film , and its all BW ranging the spectrum from Super pan, Panx, Atomic, Panatomic, and Pack films etc.

also have a case of Panatomic X 120 from the 1960s.

As I am in need of chemistry to start developing I was hoping if there was anyone that had experience with exposure compensation for old film like this and what they would soup it in to bring up an image.

I have read about restrainers to help with the base fog, but really would like some direction on developers and fixers that lend itself well to this scenario.

Planning to use some of this for portraits, in studio under hot lights or strobes, with Heliar 360mm to see how it goes.

EdSawyer
27-Mar-2016, 05:57
100lbs! Wow. There's got to be an interesting backstory to that, I'd be interested in hearing it. No real idea re: developers but mostly the restrainers and whatnot you can add can be added to any developer, generally. I'll be interested in what you find out, I have some older film too but not nearly that much.

Michael R
27-Mar-2016, 07:13
Unfortunately there is no easy answer. The first place to start would be to try the different types of film with different ages before you use them, see what kind speed and contrast you get, and evaluate the fog level. Depending on the type of film, age and storage conditions some of it might behave normally, some of it might give high fog, or anything in between. Difficult to say without trying them.

General purpose developers such as D-76, HC-110 etc. are fine. Or start with your usual developer. Rodinal might ultimately be a good choice since it gives relatively low fog even when developing to increased contrast (which might be required with old film).

The choice of developer, and the resulting negatives (fog, contrast, speed) will lead you in a direction regarding choice of restrainer (if any) and how much.

Any general purpose fixer will work fine.

LabRat
27-Mar-2016, 07:17
To start, shoot a sample roll/sheets bracketed in one stop steps more exposure outside in normal sunlight with some areas of deeper shade in the frame... Then develop them normal in your usual developer and see if you have a printable neg on there... There are developers/dilutions that hold the fog down, but not too much if excessive... And there's reducer formulas to cut base fog, but this gets tedious for daily use with a lot of film...

If there's too much fog, restrainers won't help much, as they can cut your EI greatly... And sometimes uneven base fog levels across frame, as edges might have more fogging, etc...

If you plan to scan, there's (more) hope!!!!

Test, test, test...

Steve K

David Lobato
27-Mar-2016, 07:20
You have a lot of testing to do. Some types of film will be too fogged to be of much use. Several years ago a friend gave me a large box of sheet film, some was great, some was bad, and some had mixed quality. Don't do any important work until you verify a box will be okay. I have to throw away some Ilford Delta 400 that is very fogged. Some Arista 125 film turned out okay with a few bad sheets scattered in the box. The good side is you can experiment freely and have fun. Use HC-110 developer to begin with because it's cheap. You will learn to appreciate a new box of fresh film, so plan on a purchase or two for important shoots.

StoneNYC
27-Mar-2016, 07:54
I've shot film older than the 1960's, but the results aren't necessarily great. I would sell off the stuff from the 1960's-1979 on eBay and anything that's 400 or 200 speed. Keep only the slowest films. Use HC-110 as it has a restrainer that helps slightly with fog.

Panatomic-X is one of my favorite older slow films, my fav medium speed film is VerichromePan.

Good luck with it all.

RobertCovington
27-Mar-2016, 08:10
I saw an article in view camera magazine a few years ago where the students glued a magnifying glass lens to a 4x5 board and used very old film with some pretty astonishing results. I wish I could find that article.

I wonder what a staining developer might do for film like this? Pyrocat HD and develop "by inspection".

bob carnie
27-Mar-2016, 08:23
I would start with a general purpose developer like HC110 like Michael R has said, and customize the ratio based on testing..
Or even consider a formula that allows you to inspect the film as you process..

One thing to consider if this film is to be used for personal prints then post film processing there are lots of unique and amazing avenues you can play with to make incredible prints.

I would like to see a picture of what 100lbs of 4 x5 film looks like , as well have a lot of fun with this.

HMG
27-Mar-2016, 08:39
There was an individual who made a habit of processing "found film" (old film found exposed in cameras). He posted quite a bit on photo.net.

Anyway, IIRC, he always used HC110.

rich815
27-Mar-2016, 09:29
There was an individual who made a habit of processing "found film" (old film found exposed in cameras). He posted quite a bit on photo.net.

Anyway, IIRC, he always used HC110.

Yeah but those were all pre-exposed films.

David Lobato
27-Mar-2016, 10:12
Robert, for the older films try 2 stops more exposure. Then try 1 stop more exposure for the less older film. For the 90's vintage films try 0-1 stop more exposure. Do you have any idea how the film was stored?

David Lobato
27-Mar-2016, 10:17
Here is the link to the developed found films. On PN search for Gene M.

http://westfordcomp.com/updated/found.htm

jnantz
27-Mar-2016, 11:00
RobertCovington:

i primarily use expired film.
you might do a sample sheet from each box. make the equivilant of a test strip, in your camera blocking light with your dark slide.
do this in full stop increments. i've had good results using ansco 130 and dektol for expired film. use a very strong dilution
and your dilution factor ends up the time you process for. 1:3 = 3 mins &c. i'd start with 1:3 and figure it out from there.
all the stuff you heard about golf ball sized grain and print developer isnt' really true, i've been processing in print / "universal" developer
since the mid 90s, and i have gotten beautiful full scale negatives from expired and fresh film. if you use ansco 130,
use it at about 72F it works best warm ( glycin ). after you do your test strips you can expose a whole sheet and decide if all or
any of the film you have in your 100# lot is worth keeping, some might be, some might not be ...
good luck !

RobertCovington
28-Mar-2016, 09:48
The film Was stored in a cool basement but not frozen. I am running several sheets through the paces this next weekend and with my Epson V850 on the way will share some results soon. I have D-76 on hand for developing, still trying to determine what some of these films were rated at speed wise to determine where on the spectrum I want to start.

RobertCovington
28-Mar-2016, 09:53
I love your suggestions. Good news are there are several boxes of the same film from each decade. I may scale them to groups of 5 year increments, and film types and go from there..maybe go with the middle of the 5 year block and work forward or back depending on results.

There is color film in the lot as well that I may consider for x processing, but that is a different story.

Bill_1856
28-Mar-2016, 12:35
Start with the nearest Dumpster.

SergeiR
28-Mar-2016, 13:44
*drools but trying not to show it*

Well.. you can always start with oldest. More modern ones should be still fine, so you can just eliminate groups by years, experimenting with each type.

I'd go with typical developers - R09 and HC110 just to eliminate all the funky dorking. As far as speeds - overexpose by about one stop, or even do usual sliding exposure test (usual doubling in increments , moving slider through film..

100 pounds.. dammit. :( I hang out with wrong people..

RobertCovington
29-Mar-2016, 04:44
Start with the nearest Dumpster.
That's one approach

RobertCovington
29-Mar-2016, 04:51
*drools but trying not to show it*

Well.. you can always start with oldest. More modern ones should be still fine, so you can just eliminate groups by years, experimenting with each type.

I'd go with typical developers - R09 and HC110 just to eliminate all the funky dorking. As far as speeds - overexpose by about one stop, or even do usual sliding exposure test (usual doubling in increments , moving slider through film..

100 pounds.. dammit. :( I hang out with wrong people..

I was really fortunate to do a wedding where the couple was in their late 60s. The bride's dad used to be a portrait photographer in the 40's and 50's and died several years ago. Out of the blue the bride pulled up to my studio with all this camera equipment and film and said Sam would have love for me to have it. I tried to tell her that the equipment had value, but she insisted.

HMG
29-Mar-2016, 06:24
I was really fortunate to do a wedding where the couple was in their late 60s. The bride's dad used to be a portrait photographer in the 40's and 50's and died several years ago. Out of the blue the bride pulled up to my studio with all this camera equipment and film and said Sam would have love for me to have it. I tried to tell her that the equipment had value, but she insisted.

Good for them and good for you (they wouldn't have done that if they felt you weren't a good home for it). So now, you HAVE to make a good faith effort to use the film. FWIW, I was given a batch of older paper of different types and ages. I don't know how each box of paper was stored, but I found that sometimes older paper was fine while newer paper was not. Or one brand vs. another. So you have a lot of testing to do.

Luis-F-S
29-Mar-2016, 09:23
You can start by determining the ASA and the film base fog value of the different films. I'd start with the newest one that you have the most of. You can try different developers to see which gives you the least fog. I would photograph Zones I & VII on the same sheet of film, starting at the manufacturer's recommended speed, then 1/2 and 1/4 the film speed (ASA). This will give you three sheets of 4x5, then I would make two duplicate sets to vary your developing time from the recommended time with the developer, then 1/4 less and 1/2 less (or more) of the time. Read the densities with a densitometer and determine which Zone I exposure gives a density of 0.15 over the film base plus fog. That sheet is your film speed rating. Then read the Zone VII density of this sheet with the different developing times and determine which time reads 1.15. That is your developing time. It will probably take several tries to zero in on it.

I suspect you'll find that the zone I density is probably lost in the film base. I'm presently doing this with some T-X 4x5 which expired in 1988, developing in HC-110. I have over 1000 sheets of this that I've kept frozen. The film base is over 0.3. I haven't been able to get a Zone I exposure to register above the film base + fog, so I'm in the process of trying for Zone II. I'm also going to try it with Rodinal to see if the fog is any different. I'll post my results when I've figured it out.

Yes, it's time consuming but I would do this before visiting the dumpster.

L

Andrew O'Neill
29-Mar-2016, 12:15
I've have some 4x5 Kodak IR from the 60's that is heavily fogged. A little restrainer helped a lot and I lost a full stop... but EI 50 is still pretty good. The results were better, but still looked pretty bad. For best results, scanning is the way to go. Amazing what a scanner can pull out of those negatives. I used D-76 with 1 gram/litre of Benzotriazol, if I recall.

scheinfluger_77
29-Mar-2016, 15:52
I have over a 100LBS of Sheet 4x5 sheet film ...
.\

This is just too awesome to contemplate. I'm with Bob Carnie on this one, I'd like to see what 100lbs. Of sheet film looks like

Neil Purling
30-Mar-2016, 07:39
A 100lbs in weight of film..... You lucky swine! It sounds like you scored the stock of an old studio.
The best I managed was four boxes of Ansco 282 that expired in 1957.
The stuff was as thick as linoleum

Stephen Collector
11-Apr-2016, 15:07
It's my experience with older films that they don't perform well due to base fog. If you have anything important to photograph I'd forego using the outdated material. In the scheme of things, film is the cheapest component we work with. Why take a chance and sacrifice a wonder image? I see plenty of fog in older T Max film. The base gets quite grey. I suppose you could use a reducer to clear this but why bother? Sadly, it's worthless in my opinion. That is unless you want to gift it to a high school for beginning students, but even that compromises their introduction into film.

Andre Noble
14-May-2016, 01:28
Here's some 50 year old, unrefrigerated Kodak Plus X I shot (http://www.apug.org/forum/index.php?threads/50-year-old-kodak-plus-x-roll-still-works.113372/)

eli
16-May-2016, 23:59
What would silver recovery of just ten pounds be likely to yield in ounces?