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alex sjoeberg
25-Mar-2005, 11:44
This forum is definitely helpfull to increase one’s understandind of photography matters. Thanks to any of you who could help or having already faced such choice for a new lens in a new range !

I use 4x5 (Gandolfi Variant2, BTW very efficient tool especially for movements).
As I get more and more involved in architecture assignments, I am thinking of getting a “moderate” wide angle lens. (Usually shooting with lenses close to “normal” as a strong esthetic preference). But : new assignment coming will suppose inside shots with little room for easy composition. And as I will have to be carefull to shoot not too abstract pictures, I do have to consider “real” wide angle lenses. Which I am not used to. (Already rented a 120. Liked it but not wide enough).
So, I think my choice will be between 110 and 90 mm lenses.

Schneider 110 sounds very appealling (f5.6, no need of center filter, lot of coverage, etc). And I think it wouldn't be too far from that “esthetic preference”. But : still a bit expensive (!), and maybe risky as a non “safe option” for architecture cause still not wide enough (?). (It also may be a good investment).

On the other hand, I understand that choosing a 90 lens (super angulon mc, grandagon n or nikon sw) I should consider the brighter ones. (Still have to check if it wouldn't give that “too much view in the frame” that I am afraid of). 90s would also be less expensive and / or easier to find on the second hand market. But : here comes also few more questions !
- Already using Symmar s mc lenses, would a nikon f8 sw match for render ?
- If I choose a schneider SA f5.6 (or grandagon f6.8 or f4.5), wouldn't it be too heavy or bulky (rear element) for my Gandolfi ?
- Will I definitely need center filters for any of them ? or recessed lens board ?

Also if I go for a 90, in which order should I make preferences between all of them ? (Grandagon N f6.8 or f4, Super Angulon MC f5.6 or f8, Nikon f8 … )

Thank you for any point of view that I am sure will enlight this step further into picture making … Cheers to all of you !

Juergen Sattler
25-Mar-2005, 12:17
Hi Alex, if the 120 you tested wasn't wide enough, then the 110 won't do you no good either - it is not that dramatically wider. I think you will end up with a 90mm. I would recommend the Grandagon 6.8 (I own that lens and am very happy with it) because it is reasonably bright on the GG (better then the f:8s) and not as heavy and big as the f:4 and f5.6. Depending on your camera some of the faster lenses might not even fit - their rear elements are pretty big and do not fit in all of the folder cameras. A lot of people also like the Nikon f:8 - I have no experience with it and can't tell how much darker it would be compared to the Grandagon.

Juergen

Ben Calwell
25-Mar-2005, 12:29
Alex,

I use a Nikon 90mm f8 and can recommend it highly. Although it has a small maximum aperture, I've never found it to be a problem, even when shooting indoors.

alex sjoeberg
25-Mar-2005, 12:50
Thank you Juergen
… about the 120 : what I meant is that I was roughly lacking of coverage. I liked that lens quite well (was a Schneider don't remenber if it was the super symmar or the apo one). Anyway, I was shooting in a huge retail store. And I felt I already had “expressive perspectives” with that lens when not “frontal” … This is precisely what keeps me wondering about purchasing a 90 mm lens. (Really not a big fan of those “expressive persp”). Maybe I'll have to, and then crop the sheet ?
Would a 110 be a nonsense as MAIN wide angle lense for architecture ?

Ralph Barker
25-Mar-2005, 13:39
The 110 SS XL won't give you the extreme wide-angle look, and neither will the 90mm in most circumstances. I think it's a matter of balancing between angle of view and coverage. I find both focal lengths useful at different times. The 110mm has become one of my most-used lenses on 4x5, as the image circle will (just, with no movements) cover 8x10.

If you're unsure, and can't try the 110 in advance, I'd suggest getting a good 90 to start and then go from there. Alternatively, you can check angle of view when you're shooting by using a framing aid (http://www.rbarkerphoto.com/misc/Photo-gear/FramingAid1-500bw.jpg). That often will tell you whether a lens you're considering will suffice.

As to the rendition issue of different brands, I think you'll find it to be less of an issue than rumored - unless you're doing product or fashion work where exact color matching is often more important. But, opinions differ on the subject, of course.

Gem Singer
25-Mar-2005, 13:52
Hi Alex,

Stop agonizing over the selection of which wide angle lens to get for architectural work. Sell your automobile, take a second mortgage on your house, and purchase both a Schneider 80XL for interior work and a Schneider 110XL for exterior work. You will then have the best lenses for the job and will never need to worry about it again.

Can't get along without an automobile? No house to mortgage? The Nikkor f8 90SW, with it's 235mm image circle, is a good compromise.

Alan Davenport
25-Mar-2005, 18:06
I have a Caltar-branded, multicoated 90mm f/8 Super Angulon. Watching for one of those might be a good way to save some dough if that's a concern, since the store-branded ones seem to sell for half of what it costs with the Schneider name on it.

I don't feel the need for a center filter on a 90mm lens (for 4x5) though some do. As for needing a faster lens such as the f/5.6 SA, I don't find it that much of a problem. Certainly it's a bit easier to determine critical focus using a faster lens, but with a 4X loupe, a good darkcloth and patience it all works just fine.

alex sjoeberg
26-Mar-2005, 13:00
Thank you so much to everyone. Quite a lot of clues.
I'll go for a 90 first (Schneider SA f5.6 MC or Rodenstock Grandagon N, f6.8 or 4.5). I guess the brighter the better for image circle …
And I'd better stay with same coatings for the scan and print issues.
Maybe later rebuild my whole set of lenses with brand new ones … depending of successfull assignements coming.
(No doubt new questions will be coming soon).
And I'll be glad as well to report considerations using a 90 mm for new compositions avoiding too much “expressive perspectives” !
Cheers to all of you.

Alex

Bob Fowler
26-Mar-2005, 17:32
I have a 90mm f/8 Ilex-Calumet Wide Field Caltar in a Seikosha shutter. It will cover 5X7, so it has plenty of room for movements on 4X5. Damn nice lens too...

Brian Ellis
26-Mar-2005, 20:16
If you're relatively new to LF architectural photography you might pick up a copy of "Photographing Buildings Inside and Out" by Norman McGrath. Amazon probably has used ones available. It's a good book and has a chapter devoted to the equipment he uses. FWIW, and it isn't worth much since I don't do a lot of interior work, I thought photographers who do use lenses a good bit wider than 90mm, e.g. things in the 58mm - 65mm range. 90 is a nice size for exteriors, I used a 90mm F5.6 Super Angulon for quite a while and have replaced it only in the last year with the 80mm SS XL, but I'm not sure either would be wide enough for a lot of interior work.

Armin Seeholzer
27-Mar-2005, 01:51
Hi Alex

90 mm is a good starting point, but I really recommand a f 4,5 or at least a f 5,6 version not the f 8 version for composing inside it is very dark. But inside you will then need more like a 55mm or 65mm in most cases, but start with one lens is a good one.

Good luck!

alex sjoeberg
27-Mar-2005, 05:13
Thanks again. I guess now my first question was a bit confusing (expecting any possible usefull answers at the same time :-).
Not that new to Architecture Photography assignments, but I now understand it could be considered as 1st steps askings.

It was more an « aesthetic » question, based upon any of you experience, than a stricly « equipment matter » based on any kind of rule or course … Shall I ask again ?
WOULD A 110 BE A NONSENSE AS A MAIN W A LENS FOR ARCHITECTURE ??
(For instance Mario Palmieri's pics, shooting as less wide angles as he can).
Thanks to you, I think now a 90 wouldn't be too much a risk in the other way (« expressive perpectives » wich I just dislike).

Talking books, I wish I knew where ones could pick technical infos such « what equipment was J Schulman using for that and that picture ».

Cheers to all of you !
Alex

Donald Hutton
27-Mar-2005, 10:50
Alex

"Architecture" covers a very wide range of subject matter. Generally, you will be best served with a 90mm lens, but will often require others. If you shooting the exterior of buildings, you will probably do fine with the 110mm. I use mine a lot for tall buildings - the huge image circle is a very big plus, but you need to have a camera which can utilize huge movements. For the exteriors of tall building my most commonly used lenses are a 110, 90 and a 72. For interiors, I use the 90 mostly followed by a 58. If you're shooting interiors mostly, I would say that the 110 is too wide and if you have to make do with a single lens, get a 90. Basically, if you're slightly uncertain about what most of your assignments are likely to be, get a 90. I really don't find a huge difference in perspective between a 90 and the 110. Remember, your shooting style and skill in composition will be what creates or limits "expressive perspective". For example, I use a 72mmXL quite a bit for shooting buildings, but you have to be very careful in composition. It took me a couple of months before I could avoid "ship's prow" effects in most of my shots.

alex sjoeberg
27-Mar-2005, 12:15
Thank you Don ! Very sensible input. What I'll do is try to get a 2nd hand Schneider 90 SA f5.6 first. Get used to it and see what I can get as new compositions.

And starting from there maybe buid a new 4x5 set, as the most accurate tool I might need for my own personal purposes … (Arca F metric, Ebony, 110, 80 … ? so many more things to set). I'd surely better go step by step !
Many thanks again.

Alex