Old plate Holdersl

[Xipho]

i would like to know the types of old (1920-1950s) Plate/Filmholders and their nomenclature.

i have seen the backs you push in from one side, at the 1920/30s Standard Plate Cameras like Zeiss Ikon Maximar or a V. bergheil. what are they called? (Falzkassette? In german)

Then I have the "push in" (Anlegekassette) for the old Linhofs (II/early III). what is their english name.
and are Holders of the Ica Ideal the same or different.

an then the are the international ones,as I understood there 9x12 and 4x5 inch fit to the same camera backs? (Internationales Rückteil in german)

and my Minimum Palmos still has different back, push in, but wooden and not metal and slim like the linhof backs....

Thanks!

[Ron (Netherlands)]

Hi Harald, in different languages the film- or plateholders hat of course different names. The holders were distinguished in German / French / English-nomenclature by: falz / feuillure / fitting
With regard to the diversity you can get some impression by having a look at the different (old) catalogues of the major camera makers and of some specialized plate holder makers. Since I have only seen German catalogues, I can only answer your question by giving some different names for the different plateholders in German. In German they seem to have distinguished the following holders - many times by referring to the main camera maker who introduced the specific holder:
1. Normalfalz: used for Voigtländer, Certo, Balda, Ihagee, Plaubel 10x15, Glunz, Reichert and Zeiss Ikon;
2. Contessafalz: used for Welta, Patentetui, Contessa-Nettel, ICA, Steinheil, Thobe;
3. Normaldoppelfalz: used for Agfa, Kodak, Ihagee, Cameo, Arca-Swiss, Reichert, Leitz, Plaubel 6,5x9;
4. Millionenfalz: used for Linhof, Plaubel, Acra-Swiss, Leitz-Mikro, Zeiss-Mikro, Mentor, Sinar, Super-Campo, Frago;
5. Wünschefalz;
6. Rietzschelfalz;
7. Ernemann Zweifalz;
8. Ernemann Dreifalz;
9. Goerz-Tenax-Falz;
10. Nettelfalz;
11. Bentzin.

The above is with respect to single metal plateholders. Apart from those there are the many double wooden holders of which some are slide-in (Einschiebenfalz) and some pop-on/off (Anlegefalz). Without having the exact dimensions (together with a photo) a list of plateholders does not have must value I guess. Further from what is clear from the catalogues is that many camera makers used different holders for different types of cameras e.g. Zeiss and ICA used the Anlegefalz for their more pro cameras.
From what I learned it seems most practical to find an old catalogue with the specifications of the specific camera in which also the correct plateholders are mentioned.

[plaubel]

Don't forget to have a look at the Rada catalogue, which will give some ideas of the massive non-standardized holders early in time.

Ritchie

[Ron (Netherlands)]

thanks Plaubel, indeed the above info comes also from the beautiful Rada catalogue......

here you can find it:
http://www.fotografische.de/wp-content/uploads/rada-katalog-fotografische_de1.pdf

[IanG]

thanks Plaubel, indeed the above info comes also from the beautiful Rada catalogue......

Some of the illustrations are ambiguous and there's errors in what fits some cameras. That's from practical experience plus having a number of 9x12 cameras and at one time (over 150) 9x12 plate holders and over 20 120 (a couple of 620) RF holders.

Ian

[Ron (Netherlands)]

Here's an illustration of double wooden/metal holders from an old ICA catalogue (the same holders were used by Zeiss Ikon)
Here you can also clearly see the difference between 'Einschieben' and 'Anlegen':
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1686/24326564802_792249c1a6_o.jpg

Another third party plate holder maker was A.P. Paris. However I haven't seen a catalogue yet.

[plaubel]

Hi, Ron,

I only own "Einschieben" slide in systems and some RF holders.
I can't see details from your catalogue ( and for me, the Anlegen pop on and Einschieben slide in look identical) - how do the pop on holders connect with the camera?


Thanks,
Ritchie

[Ron (Netherlands)]

Hey Ritchie, the 'Anlegen Kassetten' have a grove at the bottom end of the holder which will fit into the back of the camera (also at the bottom if in vertical position). Further the 'Anlegen Kassetten' have at both long sides at the top (again when in vertical position) two groves/notches in which two spring driven knobs fit (the knobs are at the back of the camera and can move in and out by pushing in a little switch). These Kassettes don't have grooves, since they don't slide in/out. At the back of these camera's you'll notice a switch which releases the notches so you can take off the Kassette. Only the pro ICA and Zeiss camera's had this system afaik and I guess the better Voigtländer cameras. You can see the knob with the picture of back of the Favorit and Tropica:

Above at the right side you'll see the switch - if you push it in, the ground glass holder will come off (just like the plateholder):
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1512/24758249622_5af070875c_z.jpg

Here's a picture of the back with the ground glass holder off (before restoration)
at the - metal - bottom of the ground glass holder you'll see the grove which fits into the back of the camera:

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/KusAAOSwwNVTvB1y/s-l500.jpg

and here you can see the top side of the 'Anlegen Kassetten' (photo by Steven Tribe, who btw was so kind to sell me these Kassettes):

http://kpmg0072.home.xs4all.nl/ICA/image2%20plateholder.jpg

Btw the differences are harder to see in case of metal holders.

[plaubel]

Hi, Ron,

thanksfor this perfect description!
Seems to be a nice solution; me, I don't like the slide in technique of the old Plattenkameras and their holders, so I changed my backs into newer versions.
Xipho, sorry , and thanks for your patience to my questions,

Ritchie

[Xipho]

i am very happy that Linhof had the Anlegefalz, as the slide in solutions are not very practical...
An thanks to Ron, as he gave me the linhof plates for my 10x15 linhof.. would have been a loong serach for them otherwise...