Linhof Kardan question

[HeinrichVoelkel]

Hello,

maybe anybody knows this for sure, are Linhof Kardan E or RE banks are interchangeable with the telescopic rail of the Kardan GT.

Thanks in advance,

[HeinrichVoelkel]

no Kardanistas out there?

[Bob Salomon]

Yes they are.

[Tin Can]

They are many Linhof variant of the Kardan name. Stating format size and posting pictures helps.

I specialize in 50's 2x3, 5x7 and 8x10 Kardan. Not 4x5 or anything newer.

[Bob Salomon]

They are many Linhof variant of the Kardan name. Stating format size and posting pictures helps.

I specialize in 50's 2x3, 5x7 and 8x10 Kardan. Not 4x5 or anything newer.

The Re is the current basic Linhof 45 monorail camera. It replaced the E. The GT is the basic Linhof monorail with a telescoping monorail. The E and Re have a fixed length 18" rail.

[HeinrichVoelkel]

Sorry if there was a misunderstanding. I have a pretty recent 4x5 Kardan E which has the same rail as the current RE. I would like to exchange this rail with a telescopic rail from a recent GT. Possible?

[Bob Salomon]

Sorry if there was a misunderstanding. I have a pretty recent 4x5 Kardan E which has the same rail as the current RE. I would like to exchange this rail with a telescopic rail from a recent GT. Possible?

Yes

[Tin Can]

A follow up question for Bob.

How many completely different Linhof were named Kardan?

And what does Kardan mean?

Perhaps it has a special meaning?

[Bob Salomon]

A follow up question for Bob.

How many completely different Linhof were named Kardan?

And what does Kardan mean?

Perhaps it has a special meaning?
The first Kardan had a unique knuckle like tilt/swing mechanism which made the camera yaw free as both tilt and swing were performed at the same point. However, this mechanism turned out to be too expensive to manufacture so, after this original Kardan was made as a prototype Linhof decided not to use it in their production version. But they did keep the name which they said meant a knuckle like device.
There are far too many Kardan branded cameras to remember all, but from memory some were: Kardan, Kardan Color, Kardan Super Color (original round rail model), Kardan B, Kardan 45S, Kardan Super Color JBL, Kardan Standard, Kardan E, Kardan GT, Kardan Master L, Kardan GTL, Kardan TL, TechniKardan, TechniKardan S, Kardan M, and a few others.

[mihag]

May I ask what's the benefit compared to the standard rigid rail?

[Tin Can]

Thanks Bob. I like my 50's Kardan. Very well made and work well.


The first Kardan had a unique knuckle like tilt/swing mechanism which made the camera yaw free as both tilt and swing were performed at the same point. However, this mechanism turned out to be too expensive to manufacture so, after this original Kardan was made as a prototype Linhof decided not to use it in their production version. But they did keep the name which they said meant a knuckle like device.
There are far too many Kardan branded cameras to remember all, but from memory some were: Kardan, Kardan Color, Kardan Super Color (original round rail model), Kardan B, Kardan 45S, Kardan Super Color JBL, Kardan Standard, Kardan E, Kardan GT, Kardan Master L, Kardan GTL, Kardan TL, TechniKardan, TechniKardan S, Kardan M, and a few others.

[HeinrichVoelkel]

May I ask what's the benefit compared to the standard rigid rail?

the telescopic rail is shorter and makes the camera easier to transport. I would love to get rid of my lightware case for the kardan, as it is huge.

[HeinrichVoelkel]

Thanks Bob. I like my 50's Kardan. Very well made and work well.

Kardan in German describes following: A drive shaft, driveshaft, driving shaft, propeller shaft (prop shaft), or Cardan shaft is a mechanical component for transmitting torque and rotation, usually used to connect other components of a drive train that cannot be connected directly because of distance or the need to allow for relative movement between them.

When the Linhof Kardan was invented, the word Kardan was standing for innovation, BMW at about the same time got rid of the chain drive for their motorcycles and was pushing the envelope with a Kardan drive.

[HeinrichVoelkel]

Yes Perfect, thank you

[Daniel Casper Lohenstein]

Kardan in German describes following: A drive shaft, driveshaft, driving shaft, propeller shaft (prop shaft), or Cardan shaft is a mechanical component for transmitting torque and rotation, usually used to connect other components of a drive train that cannot be connected directly because of distance or the need to allow for relative movement between them.

When the Linhof Kardan was invented, the word Kardan was standing for innovation, BMW at about the same time got rid of the chain drive for their motorcycles and was pushing the envelope with a Kardan drive.

Sorry for digging out this zombie.

I think it's not about the drive shaft but a pivoted support system, c.f. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimbal

If I understand it correctly, "Kardan" means that there is a dual-axis gimbal to move the standard about two orthogonal pivot axes.

There are a lot of Kardan-style Cameras around, even before Linhof came, e.g. "The Brand 17" in the U.S. - Are there any others?

Later Linhof made the "Kardan Bi": it had two gimbal standards with additional base tilts.

I write this because I am looking for some informations about the "Linhof Kardan Color" - a "Technika V" on an optical bench.

Apparently even the Technika IV, V, ... are Kardan systems because their front standards works as - gimbals.

Whereas the Technika III had only base tilt backwards.

[B.S.Kumar]

Bob Salomon will no doubt chime in, but still...

The Linhof Color became the Linhof Kardan Color when rear rise and lever-activated front rise mechanism were introduced. The Kardan Color also had a cutout in the rear frame to allow for easier rise movement. Otherwise I think both are identical. I have both models.

Kumar

[Bob Salomon]

Sorry for digging out this zombie.

I think it's not about the drive shaft but a pivoted support system, c.f. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimbal

If I understand it correctly, "Kardan" means that there is a dual-axis gimbal to move the standard about two orthogonal pivot axes.

There are a lot of Kardan-style Cameras around, even before Linhof came, e.g. "The Brand 17" in the U.S. - Are there any others?

Later Linhof made the "Kardan Bi": it had two gimbal standards with additional base tilts.

I write this because I am looking for some informations about the "Linhof Kardan Color" - a "Technika V" on an optical bench.

Apparently even the Technika IV, V, ... are Kardan systems because their front standards works as - gimbals.

Whereas the Technika III had only base tilt backwards.

The original prototype Kardan camera had a unique knuckle type joint that allowed it to do swings and tilts from the same joint. This was where the name Kardan came from. While in theory it worked and was yaw free and proved to be impractical to manufacture commercially. So when the Kardan went into production the cameras had separate tilt and swing points.

There have been numerous Kardan models since then. The original round rail Super Color, the B the later SC JBL, the E, the M, the GT, GTL, L, Standard and several others.

[Arne Croell]

Sorry for digging out this zombie.

I think it's not about the drive shaft but a pivoted support system, c.f. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimbal

If I understand it correctly, "Kardan" means that there is a dual-axis gimbal to move the standard about two orthogonal pivot axes.

There are a lot of Kardan-style Cameras around, even before Linhof came, e.g. "The Brand 17" in the U.S. - Are there any others?

Later Linhof made the "Kardan Bi": it had two gimbal standards with additional base tilts.

I write this because I am looking for some informations about the "Linhof Kardan Color" - a "Technika V" on an optical bench.

Apparently even the Technika IV, V, ... are Kardan systems because their front standards works as - gimbals.

Whereas the Technika III had only base tilt backwards.

Daniel is right that a Kardan means gimbal - however, the connection to drive shafts (named “Kardanwelle” in German) comes from the fact that a drive shaft usually has one or more universal joints, which are based on gimbal mechanisms.

[Daniel Casper Lohenstein]

Daniel is right that a Kardan means gimbal - however, the connection to drive shafts (named “Kardanwelle” in German) comes from the fact that a drive shaft usually has one or more universal joints, which are based on gimbal mechanisms.

Once I had a white BMW E21 whose engine hood opened itself at 150 km/h, three times ... It had a "Kardanwelle". I wonder how I could tinker the Linhof kardan Color into the BMW ... I am waiting, still, for the camera. Perhaps I find another E21 to mount he camera with its axis parallel to the drive shaft. Kardan to Kardan ;-)

Of course you're right.

Colour of the newly aquired cmaera is the same, ivory white, like the E21, what means that the camera is one of the younger specimen. Apparently it even has back rise.

You all know how sceptical I am concerning Technikas - too much need for adjustment. The Kardan Color seems to be less complicated.

The essential question is how it fits onto a ballhead. I have a Manfrotto MHXPRO, a Gitzo GH3870, a Gitzo GH2780 - the Gitzos with the Hejnar Arca Swiss clamp modification that I find quite good. But will it be strong enough to take the inhof Kardan Color? It's a very towered setup.

Or should I get the dedicated "Linhof Kardan Panorama Neigekopf I Ø75mm pan tilt head 003613"?

Regards

[Bob Salomon]

Once I had a white BMW E21 whose engine hood opened itself at 150 km/h, three times ... It had a "Kardanwelle". I wonder how I could tinker the Linhof kardan Color into the BMW ... I am waiting, still, for the camera. Perhaps I find another E21 to mount he camera with its axis parallel to the drive shaft. Kardan to Kardan ;-)

Of course you're right.

Colour of the newly aquired cmaera is the same, ivory white, like the E21, what means that the camera is one of the younger specimen. Apparently it even has back rise.

You all know how sceptical I am concerning Technikas - too much need for adjustment. The Kardan Color seems to be less complicated.

The essential question is how it fits onto a ballhead. I have a Manfrotto MHXPRO, a Gitzo GH3870, a Gitzo GH2780 - the Gitzos with the Hejnar Arca Swiss clamp modification that I find quite good. But will it be strong enough to take the inhof Kardan Color? It's a very towered setup.

Or should I get the dedicated "Linhof Kardan Panorama Neigekopf I Ø75mm pan tilt head 003613"?

Regards

The Kardan Color front and rear standards have exactly the same movements as a Technika. So what are you referring to?
Having to open a Technika to extend the front standard, or dropping the bed for wide angle or pressing a tab to get more extension?

[Daniel Casper Lohenstein]

No, sorry, question is: is a normal ballhead strong enough to hold a Linhof Kardan Color? Or should I get the dedicated clamp from Linhof. The rest of my post is some sort of german humour, but nobody is laughing. Must have been to strange. I apologize. There was another thread about purity in lf photography. Will have to utter my jokes over there ...

[Bob Salomon]

No, sorry, question is: is a normal ballhead strong enough to hold a Linhof Kardan Color? Or should I get the dedicated clamp from Linhof. The rest of my post is some sort of german humour, but nobody is laughing. Must have been to strange. I apologize. There was another thread about purity in lf photography. Will have to utter my jokes over there ...

What is a normal ball head? If you mean a Profi lll yes, possibly the Profi ll. The largest Novoflex will also easily work, as will the medium sized one.

[Cor]

I use a Linhof Color, mounted on a Manfrotto junior geared head 410 (the provided pquick plate is attached to the Linhof "foot" ). Not the lightest combination, and its quite high (the foot and the 410 on the tripod), but I like it for the precision of the 410, and it's stable.

good luck,

Cor

[Daniel Casper Lohenstein]

What is a normal ball head? If you mean a Profi lll yes, possibly the Profi ll. The largest Novoflex will also easily work, as will the medium sized one.

Thank you, Bob and Cor, I got it and tried it with the Manfrotto MHXPRO. It is lighter and sturdier than I thought.

In the beginning I wasn't a great fan of Linhofs because I thought they were over-engineered and demanding, unlike Wistas, but after I sold the Technika V something was missing ...

Now I discover the Kardan Color an I think it is an ideal camera to go out in the field, even for traveling, although I will get another Technika IV, too, next week, as a restoration project.

Funny things, those Linhofs. Perhaps I am too frustrated by Intrepids, in the end.

[brucetaylor]

The Kardan Color is much lighter than the Technika, as well as being very rigid. I like mine a lot, and as I don’t use a lot of movements it’s somewhat limited range is not a problem.
I enjoyed the “kardanwelle” discussion, I am laughing! Particularly because I used to work on a lot of BMW E21’s and the floating hood at speed phenomenon was common, and rather disconcerting!