Lith question

[12pmc]

Any comments - I have been experimenting with Lith printing, and tried using Ilford FB Warm Tone paper (Lith dev Fotospeed A&B mixed as per instructions - 20°C). The image appeared after 20 minutes with constant moving of the tray. But the result was blotchy with cobweb (white lines) like pattern over the entire print. I then tried some old stock of Forte Polywarmtone and the result was fine.

Is the Ilford paper not suitable to Lith or is there something I should be doing or not doing.

Thanks
Peter

[pau3]

I think you answered your own question. Many modern papers are not suitable to proper lith printing. However,
Ilford WT will do nice second pass lith.

Best,
Pau

[Wayne]

I've yet to find what Ilford warmtone is good for. :confused: But yeah, you discovered what was already known, that one of those papers is good for lith and one not so good. Although aside from the reticulated look it seems to me it sort of worked to get a lith effect. But I just made my first lith print and used Forte PWT, so I'm not terribly experienced on the subject.

[Ilford4ever]

Bob Carnie prefers IWT paper for lith printing. Check out his video here.. https://youtu.be/j89MrUWZpX0

I printed on it as well just to see, but not a big fan.

[12pmc]

Pau - thank you, what do you mean by "second pass lith"

Peter

[Peter De Smidt]

Check out Tim Rudman's book and website for good lith printing info: http://www.worldoflithprinting.com/

[Greg]

I first was introduced to Lith printing around 1970 by Owen Butler at RIT. If I remember correctly, he had just come back from a trip to Italy. I think he only carried a Leica with a 21mm lens and shot Tri-X. He had a show of his Lith prints from the trip and they were gorgeous.

Kodak's Kodalith paper (what you used for Lith printing back then) was single weight and a challenge to quickly transfer it from tray to tray. The developer was Kodak's Kodalith A & B developer massively over diluted. You would put the paper in the developer and nothing would happen for 2 or 3 minutes. Then all of a sudden the image would appear and within maybe 10 seconds fully develop. When the image was 90% there, you had a second or two to transfer it into the Stop Bath.

Pursued Lith printing till maybe around 1980 when Kodak discontinued making their Lith paper. Found MPP paper from the Photo Warehouse produced the same results. Then all of a sudden box or two of MPP paper later, NO BROWNS!!! Found out that the chemistry used to make the emulsion had been changed. Think Cadmium was left out.

Since then have tried all sorts of papers and developers, but no combination could equal Kodak's original single weight Kodalith paper. Have tried several methods published on the WEB to digitally emulate Lith prints... I firmly believe that 50% plus of the people publishing articles on making Digital Lith prints have never made Lith prints using the original Kodak Kodalith paper.

For the past year or two, on and off have tried to emulate the original Lith prints of the 1970s with digital printing. Have come close but still side by side with an original 1070s Lith print, haven't got there yet. When I do, will publish the method in this forum. So far it's a 20+ step method. Those original Lith prints of the 1970s were quite complicated contrast, tone, and color wise. If I had only Lith printed a step wedge back in the 1970s, it would have saved me so much time now.

only my 2 cents

[bob carnie]

I prefer a much stronger solution of A B - Water than most, I also use very strong light 250w on condenser enlarger. If my pull time for lith printing is any longer than 4 min its not working for me.

Ilford Warmtone has a very delicate snatch point that takes practice... With all papers we snatch the print when the contrast explodes to taste.... This is not the case with Ilford Warmtone and many
get poor results and rule this wonderful paper out.

Bob

[Wayne]

I prefer a much stronger solution of A B - Water than most, I also use very strong light 250w on condenser enlarger. If my pull time for lith printing is any longer than 4 min its not working for me.

Ilford Warmtone has a very delicate snatch point that takes practice... With all papers we snatch the print when the contrast explodes to taste.... This is not the case with Ilford Warmtone and many
get poor results and rule this wonderful paper out.

Bob

So if we shouldn't snatch when contrast explodes to taste what should we do with IWT?

[bob carnie]

You have to find the snatch point as soon as the blacks start to emerge... took me a whole bunch of tests to find the magic time but once you see it , it becomes pretty predictable from then on.

So if we shouldn't snatch when contrast explodes to taste what should we do with IWT?