Pre-mixed Platinum/Palladium kit vrs mixing own chemistry.

[Greg]

Up to now have been using the 35 ml Traditional Platinum & Palladium Combo Kit from Bostick & Sullivan. Very easy to use. They say it will make up to 35 8"x10" prints... have never kept track but sounds about right.

Soon will be starting to print 11x14 Pt/Pl prints. Calculated that same kit would allow me to make about 18 11x14s.

Am wondering if I should now start to mix my own chemistry. I took Advanced Chemistry courses (all be it many years ago in college), have a lab grade digital scale, a collection of lab glassware, and a ventilation hood will soon be in the corner of my darkroom. Think all I would additionally need is a heated lab mixer. Have copies of Platinum & Palladium Printing (Arentz), The New Platinum Print (Sullivan & Weese), and Instructions for Pt/Pl Printing from ELEGANT IMAGES so definitely have enough of reference material to refer to. Directions for mixing chemistry in the ELEGANT IMAGES booklet sound actually quite simple.

Would appreciate any advice....

Anyone in the Connecticut, Western Mass area seriously printing Platinum/Palladium? Would love to get together and share experiences.

Greg

[Alan9940]

Hi Greg,

No idea what the Combo Kit is and you don't give any specifics regarding metals used, developer, clearing, etc, but mixing your own is simple. You should continue to buy the metals from B&S, but things like FO, Potassium Oxalate developer, EDTA style clearing baths, etc, are all easily mixed for yourself. For the clearing bath, for example, I use simple tablespoon measurement and mix at time of printing. Once I'm done, I toss it and mix fresh the next time.

Good luck! And, have fun!!

[angusparker]

Powdered heavy metals always seems like a bad idea to be dealing with. I do quite a bit of Pt/Pd and always buy from B&S. But as Alan said above you could get the other stuff from an alternate source.

[Jim Noel]

I looked into the same thing not too long ago. I came to the conclusion that the savings from mixing of the metal salts is minimal, and not worth it. I do mix the developers, and buy my EDTA and the salts for clearing agents in fairly large quantities from B&S. The big gain in mixing my own is not having large quantities of liquids sitting around,as well as not paying for the shipment of liquids. A good savings, particularly on the metals, is available when they have their Back to School specials.

[Jim Noel]

Powdered heavy metals always seems like a bad idea to be dealing with. I do quite a bit of Pt/Pd and always buy from B&S. But as Alan said above you could get the other stuff from an alternate source.

I do not buy the "other stuff" from other sources because in the past I have had problems with purity.

[Duolab123]

I'm sure there's a lot of very level headed people that will say messing around with aqua regia will kill you, and they are quite right, that is if you breathe it. I actually got a BS in Chemistry, many years ago. I am a darn good old school wet lab man. I say go for it. I wouldn't trust your hood inside. I would do it outside in a wide open space. Even then I would go slow, no need to put a lot of heat to this. All you will end up doing is creating a cloud of pure chlorine and nitrogen dioxide. Very unpleasant even in small quantities. You can buy 1/10 oz pure platinum coins. Pd coins are also available. I've made gold chloride for toning before, at the time I was working in a lab, had access to huge acid digestion apparatus, huge hoods. I could knock out several grams of gold chloride in about an hour. That was with heat blocks and digestion tubes, the block temp. Was set at 300 C. It looked like a Titan missle silo going off.
All the old guys played around with this stuff and probably more than 8 in 10 came out unscathed. If you know what your dealing with, and your safe it's fun. If you are trying to save money and aren't going to use a lot, well in that case, if you're happy with the results you are getting?
Good luck, be safe,Best Regards Mike

[Greg]

I looked into the same thing not too long ago. I came to the conclusion that the savings from mixing of the metal salts is minimal, and not worth it. I do mix the developers, and buy my EDTA and the salts for clearing agents in fairly large quantities from B&S. The big gain in mixing my own is not having large quantities of liquids sitting around,as well as not paying for the shipment of liquids. A good savings, particularly on the metals, is available when they have their Back to School specials.

Thanks to everyone who posted or Emailed me. Now totally agree with the above. My darkroom's ventilation system is no where near being a ventilation hood suitable for mixing chemicals. Contacted a friend from years ago who worked in a research lab and asked him... his answer was "don't even think about it" but in much stronger language.

thanks

[Duolab123]

Thanks to everyone who posted or Emailed me. Now totally agree with the above. My darkroom's ventilation system is no where near being a ventilation hood suitable for mixing chemicals. Contacted a friend from years ago who worked in a research lab and asked him... his answer was "don't even think about it" but in much stronger language.

thanks

Good Call!

[davehyams]

good call, you also have to put a value on your time and energy when talking about creating your own metal salts. My time and energy is better used in learning how to really master a process, rather than learning how to master creating the compounds necessary to getting started in the process. Good luck with your printing

[Vaughn]

And do not blow-dry your coated paper, if at all possible. Lovely way to get those platinum and palladium salts airborne!

[Cor]

Well printing pure Platinum I have to use the dryer (after a few minutes allowing the emulsion to sink in), Pt printing requires pretty bone dry paper, it's DOP as you know, wheras Zia type... Pure Pt sound extravagant, and in a way it is, but not if you salvage thrown out electrophoresis equipment, remove the pure platinum electrodes and have excess to aqua regia and proper safety equipment such as a generous fume hood...but that is another story..

best,

Cor


And do not blow-dry your coated paper, if at all possible. Lovely way to get those platinum and palladium salts airborne!

[Greg]

And do not blow-dry your coated paper, if at all possible. Lovely way to get those platinum and palladium salts airborne!

Bought a reconditioned Excalibur food dryer. Has 9 15" x 15" screens with low level heater and fan. Vent above the dryer exits all the airborne salts to the outside. Have viewed some videos on Google videos of photographers worklng with Platinum/Palladium in closed darkroom spaces and blow-drying coated paper in same place... amazing.

[Cor]

I understand the concerns, but is there any hard evidence that Pt/Pd printers actually inhaled dust and suffered from that (which already difficult to proof).
If one lets the emulsion soak in the paper fibers for 1-3 minutes, and start drying from the back, I wonder how big the risk on getting airborne Pt/Pd salts is..

best,

Cor


Bought a reconditioned Excalibur food dryer. Has 9 15" x 15" screens with low level heater and fan. Vent above the dryer exits all the airborne salts to the outside. Have viewed some videos on Google videos of photographers worklng with Platinum/Palladium in closed darkroom spaces and blow-drying coated paper in same place... amazing.

[Vaughn]

Well, after 5 years of blow-drying pt/pd prints, I gave myself asthma. If you look up the dangers of working in the refining industry of platinum, you will find scientific case studies of the workers coming down with a nasty form of asthma as a result of their inhaling platinum dust.

In my particular case, I found a one-to-one correlation between the nights I blow-dried pt/pd prints (8 to 10 8x10s at a sitting) and having symptoms of asthma (a sore throat and a deep dry hacking cough that would last for about three days. I started to wear a mask, and experienced no problems -- but now air-dry (and also get far better results). Platinum/palladium prints do not have to be bone dry...two hours with a light fan blowing on the coated papers yield beautiful prints (yes, developing out process.) Pure platinums I have not made, so their moisture content needs I am not familar with.

I have led an active life. High school and college basketball, a decade of trail building and maintenance in a wilderness area, tree-planting (about 100,000 of them) in the mountains, a 5-month bike-tour with 80 pounds on the bike, etc...with no sign of any lung problems. I have been diagnosised (by a doctor) with asthma and occasionally need an inhaler to breath fully -- especially if some respitory bug hits me.

Will it happen to everyone...no. Perhaps 35 years of darkroom work (including running the university darkroom for 25 years) has made me more chemical-sensitive than others. But if someone has small children in the same house, or people already with asthma, there could easily be platinum dust on all surfaces in the house, unless one has a way to prevent this. This is truely dangerous.

A few of my pt/pd images: