What does the Rodenstock and Schneider lifetime guarantee actually cover?

[koh303]

I got a modern age Symmar S MC, with massive Balsam failure in the front sell.
Yes, i am the original owner with receipts (who knows when/where this was bought, but can look it up).

Has the lifetime guarantee card.

How/who to contact, and what are the chances it will be honored?

This should be a general thread to answer this question for all who have to deal with it.

Someone with actual knowledge or personal expreience with this please chime in.

[Bob Salomon]

If you have the card then there should be contact info on it.

[Oren Grad]

Is there any reason not to contact Schneider Optics, which is a subsidiary of and US distributor for Schneider-Kreuznach? They've always been responsive when I've had a question, whether it be about a repair or just seeking information.

The only reason I can think of for Schneider not to honor the warranty would be if, at the time you bought the lens, the distributor in the country where you bought it was a separate company independent of Schneider-Kreuznach so that the lifetime warranty was in fact not issued by Schneider itself. In that case you might have to go to the original distributor, and if they're out of business you might be out of luck.

I'm aware that some people have reported trouble with Schneider over the Super-Symmar XL haze defect. But Schneider Optics would still be my starting point - give them a chance to respond before assuming there's going to be a problem.

[Oren Grad]

I dug out the box for the 135mm Apo-Symmar that I purchased new almost twenty years ago. The distributor at the time was specified as "Schneider Corporation of America", which may not be the same company as the current Schneider Optics. More to the point, the warranty sheet specifies that to get a lifetime warranty rather than the standard one year warranty, it was necessary to fill out an application form included with the warranty sheet and send it with a copy of the bill of sale, within 30 days of purchase, and then a registered lifetime warranty would be sent. That is, lifetime coverage was not automatic. So the first thing to do is to review exactly what your warranty card or sheet says, and determine whether you in fact have a lifetime warranty even from the original distributor.

No, I never did send in mine, so my warranty on that lens is long expired.

[koh303]

Interesting, i highly doubt i sent in the stub (who ever does)... but will email them to see.
I guess my real question was:
Has anyone ever tried to claim the lifetime warranty on obsolete lenses (this must have been out of production for decades now), and what the result was?

[Bob Salomon]

Interesting, i highly doubt i sent in the stub (who ever does)... but will email them to see.
I guess my real question was:
Has anyone ever tried to claim the lifetime warranty on obsolete lenses (this must have been out of production for decades now), and what the result was?

No, but I wrote and handled the lifetime warranty on the Rodenstock lenses. That we distributed in the USA up until a year ago. The lens was warranted against manufacture's defects for the life of the original purchaser. It was not warranted against drop page, scratches, cleaning marks, water damage, etc. the shutter carried a three year warranted against manufacturing defects and entitled the original owner to a free CLA during that 3 year period. To claim the warranted you needed to provide a copy of the original bill of sale and a the stub from the warranty card.
This warranty did not apply to lenses not imported into the USA by us. So it did not apply to gray market lenses including the ones from Badger or MidWest or to lenses sold by Calumet that were imported directly by them. All qualifying lenses had a silver HP Marketing lifetime warranty sticker on the box.

[BrianShaw]

The Schneider repair center is in Van Nuys CA. At one time the were fairly good at returning phone calls to discuss repair options. Recently, though, I've had problems with access to their we site and contact info. Maybe a little research to find their phone number and a dime will help clarify the warrantee status.

[Taija71A]

service@schneideroptics.com
https://www.schneideroptics.com/contact/contact.htm

[BrianShaw]

Interesting, i highly doubt i sent in the stub (who ever does)... but will email them to see.
I guess my real question was:
Has anyone ever tried to claim the lifetime warranty on obsolete lenses (this must have been out of production for decades now), and what the result was?

I did, probably 15 years ago when I noticed Schneideritis on my 30 year old lenses. The repai center told me they did not repair that problem. We never got to the point of discussing warranted. After reading Bobs post it is likely that I though I was getting a lifetime warrantee but didn't.

[koh303]

This is a massive manufacturing defect. Not due to dropping or water damage.
What else could cause balsam separation?
I am waiting on an answer from them and will report back when i do.

[BrianShaw]

I'm interested in what comes of this. But I though balsam was old technology and newer materials have been in use for a long time. Whatever it is, separation is not good. Hope you get satisfaction.

[Oren Grad]

No, but I wrote and handled the lifetime warranty on the Rodenstock lenses. That we distributed in the USA up until a year ago. The lens was warranted against manufacture's defects for the life of the original purchaser. It was not warranted against drop page, scratches, cleaning marks, water damage, etc. the shutter carried a three year warranted against manufacturing defects and entitled the original owner to a free CLA during that 3 year period. To claim the warranted you needed to provide a copy of the original bill of sale and a the stub from the warranty card.
This warranty did not apply to lenses not imported into the USA by us. So it did not apply to gray market lenses including the ones from Badger or MidWest or to lenses sold by Calumet that were imported directly by them. All qualifying lenses had a silver HP Marketing lifetime warranty sticker on the box.

Bob, will anyone else honor that lifetime warranty now that HP Marketing is out of business?

[Bob Salomon]

Bob, will anyone else honor that lifetime warranty now that HP Marketing is out of business?

That is a question for the current distributor. They are never obligated to follow the same policy as the former distributor.

[Oren Grad]

That is a question for the current distributor. They are never obligated to follow the same policy as the former distributor.

I've just emailed OmegaBrandess (current Rodenstock US distributor) to see what they have to say about it.

[koh303]

147219
This is the lens. Perhaps i am just calling it Balsam, and its a separation of another adhesive...

[Taija71A]

147219


This is actually, a frequent occurrence with many older (and even 'Newer') Schneider Lenses.
It is commonly referred to as 'Schneideritis'.

It has been discussed 'multiple times' here on the Forum and elsewhere.

[vinny]

This very subject... Has already been discussed 'multiple times' here on the Forum and elsewhere.

What he said. No one is going to fix/ replace your lens under warranty.

[BrianShaw]

A classic example of " Schneideritis". Mine looks very much the same, Koh. Never has affected photos, just looks a bit ugly.

[koh303]

A classic example of " Schneideritis". Mine looks very much the same, Koh. Never has affected photos, just looks a bit ugly.

you should look closely a the half lens that is oily like in color. is not Schnederitis.

[Sal Santamaura]

147219...


...This is actually, a frequent occurrence with many older (and even 'Newer') Schneider Lenses.
It is commonly referred to as 'Schneideritis'.

It has been discussed 'multiple times' here on the Forum and elsewhere.


What he said. No one is going to fix/ replace your lens under warranty.


A classic example of " Schneideritis". Mine looks very much the same, Koh. Never has affected photos, just looks a bit ugly.All three of you guys aren't looking at the image. He's referring to the rainbow resulting from element separation, not the white dots around the edges. It's separation all right.

[koh303]

What he said. No one is going to fix/ replace your lens under warranty.

so what was that warranty ever good for??
Perhaps bob can comment on how many times HP marketing ever honored such a manufacturing defect for rodenstock?
There must be some legaleze explaining how if they write lifetime warranty they have to actually honor it but who will ever pursue that avenue.

I suspect this is a rare failure as i have seen dozens of these, though in fact i have two such lenses, both with the warranty, and both from the same era, the other being a 300mm, which has the exact same failure (though much worse on the 300mm).
These lenses have lived apart from each other for the past 15 years or so, so its not an environmental cause.

So - i ask you - how many times did Schneider honor this warranty? Ever? Anyone?

[Peter De Smidt]

He's assuming that the problem is Schneideritus, which it isn't. Talk to the distributor...

[BrianShaw]

so what was that warranty ever good for??
Perhaps bob can comment on how many times HP marketing ever honored such a manufacturing defect for rodenstock?
There must be some legaleze explaining how if they write lifetime warranty they have to actually honor it but who will ever pursue that avenue.

I suspect this is a rare failure as i have seen dozens of these, though in fact i have two such lenses, both with the warranty, and both from the same era, the other being a 300mm, which has the exact same failure (though much worse on the 300mm).
These lenses have lived apart from each other for the past 15 years or so, so its not an environmental cause.

So - i ask you - how many times did Schneider honor this warranty? Ever? Anyone?

Many years ago when I talked to the manager of service at the west coast Schneider facility I was told that scneideritis is not a manufacturing defect. It will be interesting to learn their position on element separation.

[BrianShaw]

All three of you guys aren't looking at the image. He's referring to the rainbow resulting from element separation, not the white dots around the edges. It's separation all right.

Thanks Sal.

[Taija71A]

All three of you guys aren't looking at the image. He's referring to the rainbow resulting from element separation, not the white dots around the edges. It's separation all right.

After, now looking again at the image at 300% Magnification... Me BAD... :(
Point well taken. Thank-you, for bringing this to our immediate attention Sal. Greatly appreciated!
--
More importantly...
I now 'Sincerely' apologize to the OP... For originally suggesting that this problem was only 'Schneideritis'.
--
Yes, I now too fully 'concur' with Sal, Peter and others that this is a case of 'Delamination'...
Between the First and Second Lens Elements -- Of the Front Lens Group.


... I am waiting on an answer from them and will report back when i do.

Please keep us posted.
Regards, -Tim.

[Tin Can]

so what was that warranty ever good for??
Perhaps bob can comment on how many times HP marketing ever honored such a manufacturing defect for rodenstock?
There must be some legaleze explaining how if they write lifetime warranty they have to actually honor it but who will ever pursue that avenue.

I suspect this is a rare failure as i have seen dozens of these, though in fact i have two such lenses, both with the warranty, and both from the same era, the other being a 300mm, which has the exact same failure (though much worse on the 300mm).
These lenses have lived apart from each other for the past 15 years or so, so its not an environmental cause.

So - i ask you - how many times did Schneider honor this warranty? Ever? Anyone?

Once again fishing for an argument.

[Luis-F-S]

It's separation all right.

+1 it helps if you have some experience with what you're looking at. Other than re-centering & re-cementing the lens, I don't know if anything can be done. L

[ic-racer]

210 Symmar-S, perhaps one of the most common and inexpensive 4x5 lenses out there. I don't think it would be worthwhile for anyone to repair that.

[brucetaylor]

"Lifetime" warranties. At best they are good until the legal structure of the issuing company changes. I would guess that the company that may have originally issued the warranty is not the same as the one distributing the product now.

[Bob Salomon]

Once again fishing for an argument.

Saw this on our lenses extremely, repeat, extremely rarely. If at all.

[koh303]

Saw this on our lenses extremely, repeat, extremely rarely. If at all.

and were they replaced?
How long after purchase?

[Bob Salomon]

and were they replaced?
How long after purchase?

I think we replaced one lens between 1986 and 2015. But none for this problem.

[IanG]

All three of you guys aren't looking at the image. He's referring to the rainbow resulting from element separation, not the white dots around the edges. It's separation all right.

If you've seen a lens first hand with separation like this it's easier to spot, earlier balsam separation is far mre obvious. It's the first time I've heard of it with a Schneider lens it was a more common problem with some Rodenstock lenses when they first switched from Balsam to synthetic optical cements. I've 3 Rodenstock lenses with similar separation none quite as severe though.

Ian

[BrianShaw]

If you've seen a lens first hand with separation like this it's easier to spot, earlier balsam separation is far mre obvious. It's the first time I've heard of it with a Schneider lens it was a more common problem with some Rodenstock lenses when they first switched from Balsam to synthetic optical cements. I've 3 Rodenstock lenses with similar separation none quite as severe though.

Ian

Q: does this kind of separation affect the image in a visually observable way?

[Kevin Crisp]

This does look like massive failure of the modern lens cement. It doesn't normally happen with age or wear and tear. I don't see an evidence of it being hit or dropped. They may ask you if you ever left it in a hot car trunk, which could cause this.

If you bought it from a US distributor, as you apparently did, I think it certainly qualifies as a "defect." Please let us know what Schneider says.

[Bill_1856]

I hope it's better than the "lifetime" warranty on my Gitzo tripods (worthless).

[IanG]

Q: does this kind of separation affect the image in a visually observable way?

With my lenses no but it's not as severe as koh303's lens which I'm sure would show a slightly detrimental effect. however it wouldn't be as marked as many lenses with similar (in area) balsam separation.

Ian

[Steven Tribe]

Very attractive Newton's rings - or perhaps I should say Newton's lines. This is due to the cement no longer adhering to the glass in a portion of the lens. It is unusual in that the two surfaces must be either planar or very nearly so. I believe it is possible to measure how wide the gap is (wavelength of light and width of the stripes). Unlike balsam, this no so much a breakdown of the cement because of age, but, in my experience, due to stress due to the different coefficient of expansion of the particular glass and the uv glue. I lost a lens during transport which I put down to a build up of stress which was "relieved" by transport jolting. Perhaps like geological stress and then relieving earthquakes?

[Willie]

That is a question for the current distributor. They are never obligated to follow the same policy as the former distributor.

As those of us with Gitzo tripods and their lifetime warranty know only too well.

[Nodda Duma]

It doesn't look like cracked glass but I suppose there's a chance it could. Barring that...

This looks like it is caused by separation of the elements at the adhesive bond joint due to exposure to temperature (either hot or cold) outside of the range it was designed for.

CTE mismatch in the elements causes stress at the adhesive bond joint. If the stress exceeds peel strength or tensile strength then the joint fails. This occurs when the lens is exposed to temperatures outside of the range it was designed for. It can happen at either hot or cold (though personally my theory is its likelier to happen at cold).

If this doesn't happen often, then either the temperature was *very* extreme or this specific lens didn't have a good bond joint to begin with.

-Jason

[BrianShaw]

I certainly wouldn't disagree with that Jason, but wouldn't those kind of conditions be quite extreme... As in extremely extreme. I've never seen a spec that included either operational or storage temps, but would assume both to be quite broad. Or, perhaps, I just never paid that much attention to that detail. Do you have any idea of the spec values?

[Nodda Duma]

For commercial optics in a lab, usually just an ambient temperature is specified, 20 or 25C.

For commercial optics expected to be used outside, I've seen the range 0C to 40C if a temp spec is given at all. Without researching, I would expect his lens to have been designed for this range.

For military optics, the optical standards usually call out something like -30C to 50C. Storage temps is usually an even wider range.

For space applications it's more like -50C to 80C. Somewhere in there.


The temperature range requirement drives the maximum CTE mismatch / smallest interior radius of curvature for doublets in the design. Depending on other requirements (I.e. resolution or MTF), you may as a designer be walking a fine line to meet all the requirements in a practical design with the available glass types.

So what may be ok at 0C or 40C may not be ok at -15C or 60C.

Or, since it doesn't sound like this is common, a poor bond joint may have eaten into the design margin enough to debond at an out-of-spec temperature. Could have been a lot of temperature cycles too. Hard to say for sure except it's temperature related.

-Jason

[GG12]

Gee - 0C to 40C isn't that big. If you ever shoot in the winter snow, you're outside of the range. Does this mean no winter shooting?

[Don Dudenbostel]

Here's the number for Schneider in California. (800) 228-1254. The service department extension is 126. If no answer leave a message with your name and number. They'll get back with you.

I have a 180 Fujinon coming back tomorrow. Yes a Fujinon W In a copal shutter. It was very soft at all apertures and they agreed to check it because it's in a copal shutter. It turned out it needs a shim which cost $90 including shipping. The lens is being brought back to factory spec.

Several years ago they brought a 121 SA that hit a concrete floor, warped the Shuttet and broke 2 elements, back to new condition.

Only Schneider can answer your question. They're great to deal with and fairly fast. My 180 was shipped to them less than 2 weeks ago.

[David Lindquist]

Here's the number for Schneider in California. (800) 228-1254. The service department extension is 126. If no answer leave a message with your name and number. They'll get back with you.

I have a 180 Fujinon coming back tomorrow. Yes a Fujinon W In a copal shutter. It was very soft at all apertures and they agreed to check it because it's in a copal shutter. It turned out it needs a shim which cost $90 including shipping. The lens is being brought back to factory spec.

Several years ago they brought a 121 SA that hit a concrete floor, warped the Shuttet and broke 2 elements, back to new condition.

Only Schneider can answer your question. They're great to deal with and fairly fast. My 180 was shipped to them less than 2 weeks ago.

Thank you very much for this report Don. It's good to know that this sort of service is available.
David

[koh303]

I have a 180 Fujinon coming back tomorrow. Yes a Fujinon W In a copal shutter. It was very soft at all apertures and they agreed to check it because it's in a copal shutter. It turned out it needs a shim which cost $90 including shipping. The lens is being brought back to factory spec.

So Schneider USA fixed a Fuji lens under warranty because it was in a copal shutter?
I dont get it.

[BrianShaw]

So Schneider USA fixed a Fuji lens under warranty because it was in a copal shutter?
I dont get it.

I read it differently. I think he paid for a repair that they were willing to do. My recollection is that at one time that shop was Century Optics and did more than just Schneider repair work. Not sure what the situation is today.

[BrianShaw]

P.s. Am I correct to assume that they haven't yet responded to you, Koh?

[stawastawa]

I don't recall it at the moment, but the amount of separation can be approximated by counting the number of rainbows. If the rainbows don't go all the way to the edge (or just to get more precise numbers) then yes the bands' color and distance between bands needs to be used.

There are some error's in this (http://www.colorado.edu/MCEN/flowvis/galleries/2012/Get-Wet/Reports/Travers_Nicholas.pdf) paper, but it, the references, or some thought can bring you to a precise estimate of the amount of separation.


thank you for bring the various schneider contact points into one location for reference if ever needed (hopefully not)

[Kevin Crisp]

The rainbow area is the part that has separated. It has come apart roughly 40%. The front element from those behind it. When you finish the job with solvent, which will go quite quickly and likely will not separate the other parts of the group, you will be left with a big floppy plastic disc that looks like an oversized very delicate contact lens.

[Don Dudenbostel]

So Schneider USA fixed a Fuji lens under warranty because it was in a copal shutter?
I dont get it.

I didn't say anything about warranty. Schneider agreed to repair at my expense my Fujinon 180 W which required shims in the shutter to correct focus. They did it because it's in a Copal shutter and they are the copal distributor. They saw it as an issue with the shutter/ lens spacing more than an issue with the lens optics. If the problem had been the optics of the lens they would not have fixed it. I'm guessing there are slight variations in manufacturing of copal shutters which can result in the need to add shims to achieve correct spacing of the front and back groups. The cost to me was $90.

[Don Dudenbostel]

I read it differently. I think he paid for a repair that they were willing to do. My recollection is that at one time that shop was Century Optics and did more than just Schneider repair work. Not sure what the situation is today.

They still do modifications on lenses for the motion picture industry. They said they do not repair lenses they didn't do the original modification on.

I had an interesting conversation with the tech at Century / Schneider several years ago. I destroyed a 121 SA and was discussing the repair. It hit a concrete floor and warped the shutter and broke two elements in the rear cell. Fortunately I found a decent match from a 121 that the front had been destroyed. Schneider was able to match the rear cell by shimming elements slightly to match the front cell I had. In my conversation with the tech he said Schneider of Germany had crates of parts and elements for virtually everything they've ever made stored in the basement of one of the buildings. From what he said they could build or repair most any lens they ever made. I didn't gather that they had hundreds of units but gathered they had enough to do quite a number of repairs. He said the problem is getting someone to go and find the correct crate and part. He said if you destroyed the rear element of a 150 f2.8 Xenotar for example they could replace that element with an original. It's a service they don't promote unfortunately and probably most people don't even know about it. Wouldn't you love to buy all the parts and assemble some new classic lenses from original vintage parts!

[David Lindquist]

They still do modifications on lenses for the motion picture industry. They said they do not repair lenses they didn't do the original modification on.

I had an interesting conversation with the tech at Century / Schneider several years ago. I destroyed a 121 SA and was discussing the repair. It hit a concrete floor and warped the shutter and broke two elements in the rear cell. Fortunately I found a decent match from a 121 that the front had been destroyed. Schneider was able to match the rear cell by shimming elements slightly to match the front cell I had. In my conversation with the tech he said Schneider of Germany had crates of parts and elements for virtually everything they've ever made stored in the basement of one of the buildings. From what he said they could build or repair most any lens they ever made. I didn't gather that they had hundreds of units but gathered they had enough to do quite a number of repairs. He said the problem is getting someone to go and find the correct crate and part. He said if you destroyed the rear element of a 150 f2.8 Xenotar for example they could replace that element with an original. It's a service they don't promote unfortunately and probably most people don't even know about it. Wouldn't you love to buy all the parts and assemble some new classic lenses from original vintage parts!

Thank you for elaborating on this Don. When you mentioned earlier about getting your 121 mm S.A. fixed I was intrigued about how that could have been done. Never would have occurred to me that Schneider had a stock of spares. From what I've seen "modern" lenses of this sort don't have the serial number engraved on the back cell as well as the front so that would not cause questions for later buyers.

Back in 1997 Schneider, doing business in the U.S. as Schneider Corporation of America, had a generous trade-in program for their new Super Symmar HM line so I traded in my 121 S.A. for a 120mm S.S. HM. I wondered at the time what they did with the trade-ins. Maybe they used them for spares, half joking-half serious here. In fact some years earlier I had dropped my 121 S.A., it followed Ted Orland's photographic truth that "falling lenses are attracted to rocks". It came through all right except for a dented front cell/filter thread area. But that nagged at me so when the trade in offer came along, I took advantage. Maybe your 121 has my old 121's back cell.
David

[Don Dudenbostel]

Thank you for elaborating on this Don. When you mentioned earlier about getting your 121 mm S.A. fixed I was intrigued about how that could have been done. Never would have occurred to me that Schneider had a stock of spares. From what I've seen "modern" lenses of this sort don't have the serial number engraved on the back cell as well as the front so that would not cause questions for later buyers.

Back in 1997 Schneider, doing business in the U.S. as Schneider Corporation of America, had a generous trade-in program for their new Super Symmar HM line so I traded in my 121 S.A. for a 120mm S.S. HM. I wondered at the time what they did with the trade-ins. Maybe they used them for spares, half joking-half serious here. In fact some years earlier I had dropped my 121 S.A., it followed Ted Orland's photographic truth that "falling lenses are attracted to rocks". It came through all right except for a dented front cell/filter thread area. But that nagged at me so when the trade in offer came along, I took advantage. Maybe your 121 has my old 121's back cell.
David

That's one of the sickest sounds in the world when a lens hits something solid like a concrete floor.

When I was talking to the tech several years ago he said the newer lenses like the Super Angulon XL's, Super Symmar XL's and Apo Symmar L's were so precisely ground that virtually any element would mate properly to any other so no more hand matching elements. The tech said the new lenses were ground using a magnetic slurry in a very precisely controlled magnetic field. This is something I'd love to see.

I received my 180 Fujinon W back today and did a test. It looks like Schneider corrected the softness with a shim as expected.

[Nodda Duma]

Don the technique you were described is called MRF polishing, developed by QED Technologies. If you ever want to look into it further.

Good for mild aspheres and working certain exotic materials for thermal imaging lenses.

[koh303]

Update:
Having had a long conversation with Century/Schneider optics today i can say the following:
Warranty covers only mechanical problems - IE - shutter problems. Optics are not covered in the warranty, and in any case they have no way to fix separation issues, and in most cases neither does the factory (though replacement parts might be available).

Nice guy on the phone explained they are having a real hard time understanding how devised the wording or naming of the warranty, as it is really misleading, and he spends many hours explaining exactly that to customers. I wonder if they ever got/will get sued for this "bad wording", as just like in Zemekis' "used cars" this is false advertising and i sure as crap would have been upset having spent 5K$ or whatever a mid range LF lens cost 20 years ago, only to find that the warranty slapped all over the box, lens and paperwork really does not cover anything other then the shutter (which in the many years i have been using, i have ever so rarely seen a defective shutter due to factory defects).

So - to make the long story short - they can clean out the haze in my Super Symmar XL 80mm, but advise to toss the 210mm and 300mm as there is nothing to be done with those.

[BrianShaw]

Very interesting! Thanks for the update.

[Bob Salomon]

Update:
Having had a long conversation with Century/Schneider optics today i can say the following:
Warranty covers only mechanical problems - IE - shutter problems. Optics are not covered in the warranty, and in any case they have no way to fix separation issues, and in most cases neither does the factory (though replacement parts might be available).

Nice guy on the phone explained they are having a real hard time understanding how devised the wording or naming of the warranty, as it is really misleading, and he spends many hours explaining exactly that to customers. I wonder if they ever got/will get sued for this "bad wording", as just like in Zemekis' "used cars" this is false advertising and i sure as crap would have been upset having spent 5K$ or whatever a mid range LF lens cost 20 years ago, only to find that the warranty slapped all over the box, lens and paperwork really does not cover anything other then the shutter (which in the many years i have been using, i have ever so rarely seen a defective shutter due to factory defects).

So - to make the long story short - they can clean out the haze in my Super Symmar XL 80mm, but advise to toss the 210mm and 300mm as there is nothing to be done with those.

Since I wrote it I wifi explain, once again, what the Rodenstock warranty was under HP Marketing Corp for the lenses that we imported and sold to dealers.
We warranted the glass for the lifetime of the original retail buyers for that Buyer's lifetime against manufacturer's defects. Note: separation is not a defect, it is a handling and storage issue.
We warranted the shutter on these lenses for 3 years from date of retail sale and offered one free CLA during that 3 year period. Note extremely few buyers took advantage of that free CLA during the 3 year period.

The above warranty did not apply to grey market lenses as sold by Badger, Midwest and a couple of other dealers or to lenses marketed by Calumet or Sinar unless they were sold with our warranty label on the box and included our warranty card.

The current distributor has no responsibility to continue our warranty and can offer their own version. Although their starter inventory was purchased from us so they may include our warranty label on the box.

[Sal Santamaura]

...Note: separation is not a defect, it is a handling and storage issue...If that "note" was included in the HP Marketing Rodenstock lens warranty as a definition, you covered your rear. :) If, however, this "note" is something from you to readers in that post, then, legally, there's no certainty it's correct. Separation might have been a defect. If a buyer suffered lens element separation and submitted a claim, which HP then rejected, the buyer could have instituted legal action against HP. Outcome of that action would have established whether the specific instance of separation was a defect or a handling/storage issue.

Of course, all of this is moot, since HP no longer exists. :D

[vinny]

As I said earlier, no one is going to fix your lens under the "warranty".

[koh303]

Fungus, Separation, haze/fog (not schneiderities) cannot be the responsibility of the user under any warranty, otherwise, it could not possible cover anything, aside from perhaps a lens that was not sharp for some reason.

[koh303]

I am having a hard time locating the actual warranty card of these - can someone kindly post a scan/PDF of an original Schneider Optics USA warranty card detailing the warranty agreement?

This is the current info from their website, but has not info on the lifetime thing:https://www.schneideroptics.com/info/warranty/warranty.htm

[David Lindquist]

Out of curiosity I dug out the purchase/warranty information on my 120 mm Super Symmar HM. First of all I was in error in my post #53; the U.S. distributer of Schneider lenses was doing business as Schneider Optics Inc., not Schneider Corporation of America. In fact I did fill out and return within 30 days the chit as required for the "Lifetime Limited Warranty". Five months later I received back from Schneider my "Lifetime Limited Warranty" certificate. Basically the lens is warranted by Schneider "to be free of defects in material and workmanship as long as it is owned by the consumer purchaser named in this certificate." If the lens included a shutter at the time of purchase, the shutter is warranted to be free of defects in material or workmanship for one year. Seems sort of the reverse of what Century/Schneider described to koh303 as being the case today. I remember at the time thinking well big deal, what's going to go wrong with a modern lens, surely the coating isn't going to flake off nor will an element spontaneously crack or the lens cement fail. No, any problems would be mechanical, with the shutter.

Anyway so far, so good. Nearly 20 years later none of those things have occurred, nor has schneideritis, nor has haze set in. Sounds like I'd better hope that this continues to be the case.

David

[koh303]

Anyway so far, so good. Nearly 20 years later none of those things have occurred, nor has schneideritis, nor has haze set in. Sounds like I'd better hope that this continues to be the case.

I think its a fairly rare thing for these modern lenses to fail, however, i now have three, and only the original owner of two of them, though i could ask the original owner of the third to claim it if it became an option.

Can you upload a scan of your warranty card?

[BrianShaw]

I think its a fairly rare thing for these modern lenses to fail, however, i now have three, and only the original owner of two of them, though i could ask the original owner of the third to claim it if it became an option.

Can you upload a scan of your warranty card?

Wow, three lens failures? All separation? Or some other failure? I have 3 Schneider Symmar-S that all have Schneideritis to some degree or another, but nothing like your separation failure, and nothing that amounts to much more than an annoyance.

[Taija71A]

Fungus, Separation, haze/fog (not schneiderities) cannot be the responsibility of the user under any warranty, otherwise, it could not possible cover anything, aside from perhaps a lens that was not sharp for some reason.

How many legs does a dog have if you call his tail a leg?
Four.

Saying that a tail is a leg... Doesn't make it a leg.
~~ Abraham Lincoln. ~~

[David Lindquist]

I think its a fairly rare thing for these modern lenses to fail, however, i now have three, and only the original owner of two of them, though i could ask the original owner of the third to claim it if it became an option.

Can you upload a scan of your warranty card?

With luck here is the front and the back of my "Limited Lifetime Warranty" certificate.148329

David

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Per discussion with poster, edited to remove front side of card with personal information.

[David Lindquist]

Well that seems to have worked. Again to get this "Lifetime Limited Warranty" I had to fill out a short form that was part of the Limited Warranty and mail it in along with a copy of the bill of sale. The Limited Warranty was for one year.
David