Meyer-Görlitz Weitwinkel-Aristostigmat 6,8/f=8cm / Dating [Archive]

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Xipho

25-Feb-2016, 14:50

147125
I got a very clean Wide Angle Aristostigmat from Meyer-Görlitz. It came with a 10x15 Linhof Technika I.
Camera ist from 1935/36, but the lens (and the compur shutter A450617 (rim)) are newer.
Can anyone date the shutter, this A-numbers are not in the books...

The lens number is 965xxx. I found that 1 Million should be 1948.
Question is, is this lens from 1948 when they restarted the production, or from 1942, before they quit lens production due to war.Maybe they restarted with 1 Mio?.. maybe anyone has better Information.

Lens was posessed by a West German businessman, maybe even bought new by him (could be, they definitely had enough money even in the bad times after the war...

Coating started in 1952 (V), this lens is uncoated...

(btw, the other lens with the camera is older than the camera, a 1924 CZJ Tessar 4,5/180)

Dan Fromm

25-Feb-2016, 15:02

P-H Pont's Meyer chronology has 990000 ca. 1942 and 1068113 in 1946.

Xipho

25-Feb-2016, 15:16

P-H Pont's Meyer chronology has 990000 ca. 1942 and 1068113 in 1946.

many thanks for the confirmation, I had only data starting after 1945...
So it should be a 1942 or 41.... Meyer made about 100000 lenses a year (at least before the war).

Nice lens, invented in 1911. Does it fully cover 10x15?

Xipho

25-Feb-2016, 15:22

has anyone an idea what there Axxx.xxx Compur Rim Numbers are, they are not in the usual published Serial number lists?
I hav some A six Digit shutters that are younger than the normal 6-digit era

David Lindquist

25-Feb-2016, 15:41

has anyone an idea what there Axxx.xxx Compur Rim Numbers are, they are not in the usual published Serial number lists?
I hav some A six Digit shutters that are younger than the normal 6-digit era

I have a 203 mm f/7.7 Ektar made in 1959 (Serial number RT 552) mounted in a Compur shutter serial number A554776. Maybe this will help...
David

Dan Fromm

25-Feb-2016, 16:46

Nice lens, invented in 1911. Does it fully cover 10x15?

According to these catalogs (http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/meyer_3.html, http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/meyer_5.html) Meyer doesn't think so. It might well illuminate the format, though.

Xipho

26-Feb-2016, 01:27

thanks for the catalog, very interesting. The lens is newer as to the time of the cataloge they only had the f9/Aristostigmat

I found this link and picture http://photo.net/large-format-photography-forum/00RbKf
which has nearly the same serial as mine and also the exactly same shutter! This proves that my shutter is the original one to my lens...

Coverage is said to be 100 degress stopped down, so it should just fit to 10x15

I will visually check füll movements with the WW 80 and the 180 Tessar today..

IanG

26-Feb-2016, 02:37

In BJP Almanac adverts A.O. Roth the Meyer distributors in the UK listed the coverage stopped down one year,I think for the f9 version. I'll try and find something.

The 8cm f9 WW though is listed as covering Quarter plate at full aperture as you know, it should just cover 10x15 stopped right down, Meyer are using coverage in terms of acceptable sharpness/resolution which is slightly arbitrary without testing and differs from the field of illumination which Dan mentions.

Zeiss recommended a 210mm f4.5 Tessar for 10x15 however the 180mm will cover but be slightly softer at the corners and edges.

I recently did some quick tests (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?128110-Goerz-Dogmar-Lens-Question-Soft-Focus&p=1303663&viewfull=1#post1303663) with a Dagor, a Ihagee-Goerz dialyte, Tessar and a Meyer 141mm Meyer Weitwinkel-Aristostigmat f9, all lenses in with good clean optics, the Meyer WA and the Dialyte had significantly lower contrast than the Tessar while the Dagor was way ahead despite being the oldest (it may well have been unused & never fitted to a camera/lens board).

Ian

IanG

26-Feb-2016, 04:43

The 1931 BJP Almanac Meyer advert states the 80mm (3 1/8") f9 Meyer WA covers up to 10x15 and 3½x5½" at full aperture, it's a bit ambiguous as it doesn't say the maximum coverage is when stopped right dowm. The Adverts also include the Universal Silar camera which later becomes re-badged as a Linhof camera after the manufacturers cease trading and the company is taken over by Linhof.

Ian

Dan Fromm

26-Feb-2016, 06:48

thanks for the catalog, very interesting. The lens is newer as to the time of the cataloge they only had the f9/Aristostigmat

Two catalogs, look at both. Start with p. 12 of the first one. What has become of the famous teutonic thoroughness?

Michael E

26-Feb-2016, 08:14

I love WW Aristostigmats. My 80mm (f9 I think) barely covers 4x5" without movements, IIRC. I haven't used it much. The 120mm is great on 4x5" and should work well on 10x15cm.

IanG

26-Feb-2016, 08:34

That catalogue Dan linked to is actually for1930 not 1936 as stated on the Cameraeccentric website, see the bottom of page 8

On re-reading the 1931 BJP advert Roth/Meyer advert do say that the 80mm f9 covers 10x15 and 3½x5½" at Full Aperture, I was assuming 10x15 was a lot larger than 5x4 but it's closer to the postcard 3½x5½" format.

The Meyer f9 WA covers 100º but Roth/Meyer claim the f6.8 version covers 105º in the 1936 BJP advert, (published Autumn 1935). It doesn't help that Roth/Meyer published slightly different coverage for the same f9 lens, the Nov 1930 Catalogue is very slightly later than the BJP Almanac (1931) Advert would have been prepared.. (The Almanacs carried the date of the following year).

Interestingly Schneider in the same 1931 BJP Almanac claim that the Anglon f6.8 also 105º coverage is ideal for shooting against the light giving great billiance alluding to the fact it's two cemented optical cells so less prone to flare which it would be compared to the 4 air spaced elements of the Meyer WA.

Ian

IanG

26-Feb-2016, 10:36

I love WW Aristostigmats. My 80mm (f9 I think) barely covers 4x5" without movements, IIRC. I haven't used it much. The 120mm is great on 4x5" and should work well on 10x15cm.

The 120mm (4¾") is listed as covering Whole plate 8½X6½" at full aperture so a lot of room for movements with 7x15/13x18 and 10x15.

Ian

Xipho

26-Feb-2016, 11:58

yes, 10x15 is german Postcard Format!

the 6,3/80 seems to cover 10x15 (visual test), and there is no Need for much movements, as there is no space for movements with this lens...
Picture of Technika I 10x15 with the Aristostigmat at infinity ....

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1642/24983025670_bd03fa4420_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/E4Ex8U)Linhof Technika I (1936) WW (https://flic.kr/p/E4Ex8U) by xipho68 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/xipho68/), auf Flickr

IanG

26-Feb-2016, 12:27

Xipho

26-Feb-2016, 12:52

Luckily, Foma makes a 10x15 Fomapan 100... Should get it from the factory...
I asked a big german online dealer for films, he sold his last pack in 2013, so he has no stock... not very common indeed!

Hope to have some example pics of the lens, 10x15 film Adapters are on their way...