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View Full Version : Technikardan 45S to complement my Chamonix 4x5 F1



richardman
20-Feb-2016, 05:20
I am thinking of supplementing my F1 with a TK 45S, mainly for the quicker setup if I do want to switch lenses. At 6+ pounds, it;s twice as heavy as the F1, so probably won't do heavy duty hiking with it. OTOH, for the portrait work, it may be just a a bit less fiddly. Another nice thing is that I can use the same set of lens, plus I can use the 450mm without extension rail.

Any caveat that I should be aware of? It's a Linhof right? So it's should be the best of the best ;-)?

Michael R
20-Feb-2016, 07:43
I had the chance to use a TK45s, though only for a few weeks, but it's a flexible, precise, strong and beautifully made (of course) machine. I have a Kardan RE which I love, but the TK is obviously more compact. With a high end camera like this it will really come down to the type of photography you do most often, and personal preferences along with getting used to to doing some things in different ways (for example, axis rear tilt vs base/asymmetric on your F1).

Some people may or may not find the TK folding process a little fiddly, but I had no problem and quickly got the hang of it. The longest lens I used on it was a 300 so I can't comment on how it fares at full extension regarding balance/stability.

Since you asked for caveats, I'll just mention the prices of Linhof accessories. Bag bellows, lens boards etc. VERY expensive, although you can use your Chamonix lens boards on a TK so I guess at least that one is probably a non-issue.

Jeff Keller
20-Feb-2016, 11:35
Hi Richard ... take a look at http://www.largeformatphotography.info/linhof/tk.html
two people with very different reactions to the camera.

Perhaps optical axis tilts is less fiddly(?) for portraits.

richardman
20-Feb-2016, 12:59
Thank you! Certainly sums up the Pros and Cons. The used one I am looking at a used TK 45S (for ~$1500 which seems to be a decent price) that has a new bellow and "better" screen, so that's two minuses gone. I like Paul's description on how he unfolds, so I think I can manage that. For portrait work, the most fiddly part about the F1 is that there's no detent and I have to make sure the standards are reasonably parallel - although I don't sweat it that much as I often shoot at F8 so some part of out of focus anyway. With the F1 though, I have to move the front standard to different hole on the rail depending on whether I am using the 150mm or the 9" Cooke, and that can take some times. I figure that a rail like the TK must be a bit easier in that regard.

I also like to do long exposures, ala Michael Kenna, and now using a Hassleblad for that. While I may stay with the Hassy for long exposures, a more rigid TK may serve the functions as well...

Thanks

Bob Salomon
20-Feb-2016, 13:56
Thank you! Certainly sums up the Pros and Cons. The used one I am looking at a used TK 45S (for ~$1500 which seems to be a decent price) that has a new bellow and "better" screen, so that's two minuses gone. I like Paul's description on how he unfolds, so I think I can manage that. For portrait work, the most fiddly part about the F1 is that there's no detent and I have to make sure the standards are reasonably parallel - although I don't sweat it that much as I often shoot at F8 so some part of out of focus anyway. With the F1 though, I have to move the front standard to different hole on the rail depending on whether I am using the 150mm or the 9" Cooke, and that can take some times. I figure that a rail like the TK must be a bit easier in that regard.

I also like to do long exposures, ala Michael Kenna, and now using a Hassleblad for that. While I may stay with the Hassy for long exposures, a more rigid TK may serve the functions as well...

Thanks

Opening and closing the camera is very easy, simple and quick. All you have to do is do it properly. To open the camera you set all green levers to off, unlock the two black knobs on the left side of the rail and turn the focusing knob as indicated on the pictograms on the scale above the focusing knob.
To close the camera set all movements at the 0 position. Lock all red levers, unlock all green levers, collapse the rails and lock the two small black knobs. Then rotate the focusing knob in the direction of the arrow on the scale.

In practice there are even faster ways to do this without any damage to the bellows. It is simply a matter of doing it carefully a few times till you are comfortable doing it. From fully closed to fully extended takes me about 10 seconds, same for closing.

One feature that was added to the S version over the original TK is the 0 detent on the front and rear tilt. I find that using finger tips to depress the detent locks makes opening and closing much easier then not depressing them.

Greg
20-Feb-2016, 17:35
Please consider a Sinar Norma. I have a 4x5 Chamonix for outdoor work, hiking and alike. Have used a Sinar Norma since the early 1970s and it has never let me down. I believe MoMA has a Norma on display as a work of art. A Technika lens board adapter allows me to use the lenses mounted for the Chamonix on the Sinar. Plus with the addition of a Sinar Copal shutter, you'll be able use any barrel lens on the Sinar... use my Darlot brass lens in this way. Big plus is that Sinar Normas have been going for bargain prices lately. Norma is rock solid and you can easily make any movements without taking your eyes away from the ground glass or monocular or binocular Sinar hood. Please Email with any specific questions....

Noah A
21-Feb-2016, 08:06
Technikardans are going for good (or bad) prices these days, depending on your perspective. I sold mine a few years ago, but recently I decided that I really missed it and wanted another one. I paid about 60 percent of what I sold mine for a few years ago. And it's a nicer camera. So it's a buyer's market.

Accessories are pretty expensive. But you can find deals on those too if you're patient. Frankly I've never needed any accessories other than extra/spare bellows. The OEM bag bellows is amazing and expensive, but there are cheaper options if you can't afford the OEM. I've never tried them. To be clear I think the OEM accessories are best. But I'd still take a Linhof with a Chinese bellows over most other cameras! Also Custom Bellows can make you a replacement standard bellows for a fraction of the price of buying it through Linhof. I need a new standard bellows for backup and I may go that route.

Also, while they're still expensive, OEM accessories can be purchased from Europe at lower prices. I've bought a few things from Linhof Studio in the UK. Shipping is usually free and the service is great.

As for the camera itself, I've never owned a Chamonix but I've played with them, I've had workshop students who used them. They're great cameras, but I do think you'll find the TK45S to be more rigid, more precise and less fiddly to use. It's fast to set up, and extremely fast to change lens extension for close focus or if you change lenses. You can pack it with most lenses attached so that saves some time too.

The TK45S is great for architecture and urban work, which is why I originally bought it. I thought it would be a nice supplement to my MT2000 and it certainly was. I sold it because I found the MT2000 to have enough flexibility for my urban work. But the reason I replaced my TK45S after selling it is that it's also really great for portraits. All of the movements are direct, fast and precise, so it's ideally suited for portraits, where you want to work fast and efficiently. It's great for studio portraits, like most cameras with a monorail design. But it also really shines for location portrait work. It's a really nice supplement to a field camera since it operates like a studio monorail but packs small if you're traveling.

I may be biased, but it's pretty close to a perfect option in my opinion. The other obvious option is an Arca-Swiss, but they seem to be more expensive.

richardman
21-Feb-2016, 12:50
.. But the reason I replaced my TK45S after selling it is that it's also really great for portraits. All of the movements are direct, fast and precise, so it's ideally suited for portraits, where you want to work fast and efficiently. It's great for studio portraits, like most cameras with a monorail design. But it also really shines for location portrait work. It's a really nice supplement to a field camera since it operates like a studio monorail but packs small if you're traveling.

I may be biased, but it's pretty close to a perfect option in my opinion. The other obvious option is an Arca-Swiss, but they seem to be more expensive.

Thanks Noah, on-location portrait is the main reason I am thinking of getting one. I am now also considering a Gibellini if can replace my CHamonix for field work and provide the rigidity and faster setup for portraits similar to what you said about the TK 45S.

And thanks for everyone else for chiming in, especially for Bob for the instructions. Much appreciated.

richardman
21-Feb-2016, 14:45
Ari post about his 8x10 Gibellini made me look into that option again, and I communicated with Alessandro, and it would appear that the Gibellini 4x5 may do the job of both the F1 and the TK45 for me, minus the asymmetrical back tilt. This is what he says:


When you open THE camera there Are auto positioning in zero, and the standards are absolutely at 90 degrees.

You don't need to move the front standard when change lenses (we don't use Chamonix system, we don't like it) our cameras got a special function, the rear standard move near the front one and not the front to the rear. That is a great solution so you can use also really wide angle lenses without take pictures with the bottom included.

The cameras are so fasts to use and extremely light and compact (only 7cm thinner and 1.5kg). Fine focusing with back gear extra smooth.


So now it's just a matter of saving that $2400+. I may have fund by Mid-March....

Noah A
21-Feb-2016, 19:28
I looked at the Gibellini site when Ari posted it before. It looks kind of like a cross between a Chamonix and a Canham metal camera. My old Canham metal camera just wasn't all that rigid but hopefully the Gibellini is more solid. It does look a bit more sturdy. The 8x10 looks beautiful and of course there are fewer options at that size.

The photo of the 4x5 on the site looks a bit odd, what are the curved arms at the top of the rear standard?

I'd be willing to bet that the TK is still faster and more fluid to set up and use. It also has focusing on the rear standard, which is really nice for close portraits. But the Gibellini is probably smaller and lighter, and it could be a great one-camera solution.

I could definitely live with the TK as my only camera. Throw in a tripod, film holders, lenses, etc., and the extra weight of the camera doesn't seem to matter all that much. But having two cameras is important because it provides redundancy. If one camera gets stolen or broken the day before a job, it's not a problem because I have another one to work with.

asf
22-Feb-2016, 14:53
I used to use (2) TK45s professionally for several years for location portraits and architecture, I really liked them. Did most of my work with the bag bellows and just left it on the camera for storage as it was easier than worrying about ruining the standard bellows while folding. I was able to fold and unfold very quickly and easily.

What I didn't like about the camera was the rear L bracket didn't support the back strongly enough (sag) when using a Polaroid 545 holder or even a QuickLoad holder horizontally. This became very noticeable with wide lenses. I shot 75% of my work this way so it was a real issue for me. Eventually I had some custom Arca F setups made and that solved that.

For regular film holders I noticed no problems and would get one again without hesitation.

Drew Wiley
22-Feb-2016, 14:59
TK's are nice, but I think the Sinar system gives a lot more bang for the buck, and is way more versatile and common in terms of accessories. It is certainly an
easier system to balance (stabilize) over very long rail extension, which are basically unlimited. With the correct configurations, these can be quite portable.
Whatever. Your odds are just better at finding a clean one affordably than either a TK or Arca. They're all desirable.

asf
22-Feb-2016, 15:08
I currently use a Norma

Drew Wiley
22-Feb-2016, 16:57
I'd rather shoot a Norma any day than a TK. More rigid, better balanced, way more versatile. But that TK will collapse into a bit smaller "book" size if that's what you're after.

MatchingMole
27-Feb-2016, 14:59
I use a technikardan for now six years, and also own a sinar norma. For me and for my kind of photography (landscape and architecture), the TK is my prime choice: Very compact folded, same size like a technika or other folding, large and generous shifts, no need of recessed lensboard. The Norma is a fine camera, but way less convenient to carry on a backpack.