DIY 5x4 in Sapele

[barnacle]

Here's this year's attempt: I'll post as things go along. The materials are sapele, brass, and plastic gear tracks.

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Just to be awkward, I'm starting with something that isn't designed; a frame for my existing bellows (courtesy Custom Bellows, some years ago but never used.) This is 6mm strip, lap jointed at the corners and with a cunning use of bamboo food skewer to hold it together. The bellows are then stapled to the frame, but this might need further consideration; not sure yet.

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I don't have many tools, but I can't help feeling that we're going to see that corner vice again...

Neil

[barnacle]

And some more of the tools - first, the world's smallest sawtable, but sufficient to slit a 20mm strip of 5mm for tomorrow's efforts - this dates from around 1960, I believe, which makes it as old as me.

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And it is but the work of moments to convert it to a mill:

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Neil

[barnacle]

I wonder what happened to the picture of the lathe as a saw bench? Oh well... been making some fiddly bits for the front standard today. Two each of two parts, milled from single 20mm x 5mm strips. I'm beginning to wonder if I will need to make this part thicker, but it seems robust enough for now. It must be nice to have one of those convenient workshops with a huge selection of power tools to choose from and loads of room...

Plans for the front standard:
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And the part, nearly finished:
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Neil

[Peter De Smidt]

Good stuff! Thank you for posting it. I'll follow the thread with interest.

[barnacle]

I have no doubt that today's efforts would have been far easier, and faster, had I access to a better equipped workshop. Still, given a mill that won't move more than a couple of inches, so I have to take four or five bites at each cut, and a circular saw blade that's designed for metal (i.e. without the wood-cut offset teeth) and cutting hardwood with the grain, I managed to convert some 10mm strip into six 20mm x 10mm x 200mm, then rebuild the mill and make the inner and outer slider parts of the baseboard and mill the slots for the focussing racks.

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Meh, the upload does horrible things to line drawings. I'll post them somewhere better when it's finished and they're finalised.

Neil

[Jim Jones]

Neil, consider uploading line drawings as GIF files. JPEG introduces artifacts. Also, do any lettering fairly large. Expanding the lines by a pixel might help.

[barnacle]

Jim, they're uploaded as png files, but the forum software does something horrible to them.

Here are the drawings shown above, in order:

An overview of the camera:

http://www.dnbprojects.co.uk/camera/Overview.png

The front standard:

http://www.dnbprojects.co.uk/camera/Front%20standard.png

The base board

http://www.dnbprojects.co.uk/camera/Baseboard.png

and focus extension:

http://www.dnbprojects.co.uk/camera/Focussing%20extension.png

Hopefully that works for people who aren't me; the permissions on the server are a bit weird.

Neil

[barnacle]

Not a lot done today - some idiot measured things incorrectly and had to change things around - but the focus extension is now glued and almost finished, though it will require a little more machining to make sure the slider rails are straight where the crosspieces fit. I knew that right angle clamp would be back.

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Also experimenting with the joint at the back of baseboard - this is hand cut but I think I'll machine the real thing for a better fit. I really don't have much in the way of cabinet maker skills...

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Neil

[barnacle]

Some brass arrived.

The couriers tied it in knots.

Damn.

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Neil

[barnacle]

Finally, it's starting to look vaguely recognisable.

Cunning tip for marking holes for the focus shaft: bamboo food skewers are near as damnit 3mm diameter... then drill through both side pieces at the same time to get the alignment and check with the brass shaft. The pinion wheels will need either glue or perhaps a tiny hole drilled through and a pin? The pinion wheels and gear track are from www.motionco.co.uk, at the huge cost of £1.50 each for the spurs and £3.00 each for the racks.

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And the bottom and top view of the complete focus assembly, before trimming the side pieces to length. The glue is currently drying.

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[barnacle]

Not a lot today - I took it into my head to go out and photograph, but the weather saw me putting the equipment in the car... and the sun went in.

More clamps, Igor!
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Base and focus slide complete, and even approximately square:
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And most of the finger joints cut for the rear box section. There has to be a better way than a tenon saw and a chisel...
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Finally a small flag wave for https://hardware-warehouse.co.uk/ who supplied the brass stock, and had a replacement unbent parcel with me - by a different courier - before noon today. A pleasure to do business with them.

Neil

[barnacle]

The back box is not a success. Finger joints are harder than they look, in the absence of a proper jointer. Sulking until I can come up with something a bit nicer.

Meh.

Neil

[Drew Wiley]

Dovetail jigs and a small router aren't all that expensive for small projects. You'll get there!

[Peter De Smidt]

Box joints with a jig on a table saw? Most cameras I've seen use box joints instead of dovetails.

[Drew Wiley]

For production there are even way better ways to do it. I sold a a number of those machines over the past two days; but pro gear is in a far higher price league.

[barnacle]

Sadly, I tend to start building cameras when I don't have a job = no buying even cheap equipment until something else comes along... Sadly, even a day's rental on a saw table would cost as much as the materials for this camera.

I have an idea that might work to try in the morning - I think I can use the lathe/mill to cut the comb, but it depends rather on counting turns of the lead screws. Must *not* get distracted into building a CNC attachment for the lathe...

Neil

(Also, an employer wants me back for a third interview next week, which is hopeful :) )

[Peter De Smidt]

Neil, good luck in the interview!

[Tim Meisburger]

Cutting dovetails is not difficult. You just need a marking gauge, back saw and chisel. If that seems complicated, finger joints are even easier to cut with a saw and a chisel. Give it a try if you have stock. Its much easier than trying to set up a table saw to do a job it wasn't really designed to do.

[Peter De Smidt]

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/bt_box_finger_joint.html?tab=1&zoom_highlight=finger

http://www.finewoodworking.com/interactive/finger-joint-jig-for-the-tablesaw/

But that, of course, assumes that you already have the associated equipment, which you don't.

[Drew Wiley]

Who does it with a table saw either? I thought that all ended when an asteroid crashed during the Cretaceous. But don't get discouraged. A step at a time. And
good luck with that interview!

[Peter De Smidt]

Who does it with a table saw either? I thought that all ended when an asteroid crashed during the Cretaceous.

Someone who has a good table saw but not a different appropriate tool.

[Tim Meisburger]

People get obsessed with machines, but often the appropriate tool for a one-off is a hand tool. By the time you bought the equipment (a shaper, I guess) and learned how to use it, you could have hand cut 40 finger joints. Its like the difference between LF and digital:rolleyes:

[Peter De Smidt]

Hand tools are great, especially if you have the appropriate one and the knowledge of how to use it.

[Fr. Mark]

I'd like to know more about the little milling etc machine...

+1 for hand tools. Though I love good machines.

Anyone ever used fiberglass and epoxy for making LF camera parts?

[barnacle]

I'm seeing this as a challenge to my inventiveness...

Neil

[Steven Tribe]

To be honest, I'm not too in love with sapele - but then the quality of mahogany began to deteriorate from the middle of the 19th century as the better sources became used up. Walnut is about the most reliable and available wood for camera making these days.

[barnacle]

Me neither - but the walnut cost half as much again and to be honest I'd rather make the mistakes on the cheaper wood :) Lack of workshop facilities also limits my options with regard to supplies.

Neil

[barnacle]

There has been some progress. What would have taken half an hour with the proper tools (and/or rather more woodworking skills than I possess) took most of the day, but...

The lathe in saw-table mode, with added bits to allow a series of parallel cuts to the same depth:
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A test corner, made from the wreckage of yesterday's efforts - seems OK.
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And the first corner on the back box, just after glueing.
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I'm a bit happier now!

Neil

[Peter De Smidt]

That's great progress, Neil!

[Fr. Mark]

I love walnut, it has a number of good characteristics for furniture, gunstocks, cameras and even fire wood (scraps) but increasingly I'd rather work in hard maple mainly because I don't care for the walnut dust exposure. Cherry is also good wood for cameras and detailed wood work.

Only sapele I've worked with has been plywood.

[Jeff T]

Nice looking joint. Fiberglass dust can be hazardous to your respiratory system. I'll pass on fiberglass. I am considering cedar wood to keep weight down. Has anyone try cedar?

[barnacle]

We progress... the box is complete, and test fitted to the base board - amazingly, everything is within a millimetre or so, though it's not perfect... did I mention I'm not a cabinet maker?

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Tested with a back of the same design, that I first used a few years back. Rather annoyingly, it fits only in one plane; something isn't symmetrical (actually, thinking about it, *two* things aren't symmetrical) but a slightly smaller back will work. It has to mount in two axes to give portrait and landscape options.

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The inner plate is held in only with glue and has to be inset the thickness of the back plate. It also provides a place to mount the bellows, and has a hole in the middle 120mm square. Here the glue is drying.

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I think I'm happy with the box joints on the back, but I might need to rethink the hinges later.

Neil

[Steven Tribe]

You might want to look at the flush hinges which are used on the type of furniture called "butler's tray" where the sides fold down to form a oval "table". It just so happens that I have some these which I put to one side when I bought some trays in a charity shop years ago - basically to get hold of the mahogany. I'll take some photos tomorrow when it is not so dark in my storeroom!

[barnacle]

Thanks, Stephen - I think I know the ones you mean, but I couldn't locate any small enough. I think there's a way I can use these butt hinges. The base of the back has to drop level with or slightly below the top of the base when open, to allow the front standard carrier to slide back off the focus traveller rails. Which I haven't fitted yet, so this explanation makes no sense whatsoever!

Neil

[Fr. Mark]

Cedar, redwood, and spruce all have great strength to weight ratios but are very soft for use in things that moved/knocked about like a camera. I used redwood strips for a light trap on an 8x10 pinhole camera (that uses film holders) because I had them and they were the right size w/o more cutting other than length and they've not held up well. They deform to much too easily. The Ebony camera folks aren't crazy for using such a hard, machine-able wood. Maple being much less costly and having somewhat similar working characteristics it may go into my next camera build. But it may come down to what I can scrounge, but for cameras I'm trying to get away from that instinct and also the one that says barely function completed is better than just about perfect but maybe never gets done.

[Tim Meisburger]

The perfect is the enemy of the good!

Yes, stick with the normal camera or furniture woods if you can. Fruit woods, although uncommon in historic cameras will also be fine, so keep your eyes open for a neighbour cutting down and apple, pear or cherry tree. Cedar would make a super light camera, but with all the disadvantages Father Mark mentions. I have an ebony (Ebony) camera, and I can tell you it is appreciably heavier than mahogany, but it is very pretty, and indestructible, and in the grand scheme of things the weight of the wood is a fraction of the kit.

[barnacle]

Heh - funny you should mention Ebony: I was doodling last night trying to work out how to build that extends-both-ways base, and I rather like the idea. Next one? What I don't like are the weights that they publish... (and inspecting my bank account, I find I can't really afford a couple of thousand bucks right now!)

Neil

[Steven Tribe]

No luck to-day but here is something similar on a real camera. Uses wood/wood bracing and a slide in panel rather than a built in steel bar underneath.

[Tim Meisburger]

In most field cameras the base moves in both directions. I guess your design is based on a cased camera like a Crown Graphic?

[barnacle]

Yes. I'm hoping that things will become clearer as it gets closer to being finished.

I took Sunday off to do some photography at Ely Cathedral, but back on the job today.

http://www.dnbprojects.co.uk/camera/Back%20plate.png

Once again, milling bits of wood to make flat plates strong in both directions...

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And the angle cramp makes another appearance. The hole in the middle of this part is 100 x 120mm, to fit the opening of the film holder. I did discover that I (ahem) used a 6mm spacer to guarantee a required 5mm gap. One day I'll learn.

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Neil

[barnacle]

The back board is almost complete:

After making the board and sanding flat, I milled the indents for the film holder (strictly, there's a fancy shape for it, but I just hit it with a 2.5mm mill and 2mm deep).

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Then the end stop, critically positioned with reference to the slot above, using a holder as a jig and lots of clamps:

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Then the side slides, jigged with a millimetre or so of clearance so the slide goes in easily.

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And with the film holder in place.

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Neil

[barnacle]

I decided to chamfer the edges on the inside of the plate, so any light that does get there will get bounced somewhere that isn't the film. This will eventually be flat black:

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The final thing to do on the back board is drill four holes exactly square so it can be mounted on four bolts which will protrude from the rear standard - square so it can go in portrait or landscape direction,

And then the ground glass holder:

http://dnbprojects.co.uk/camera/Ground%20glass.png

You knew that angle clamp was going to make another appearance, didn't you?

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Neil

[barnacle]

With the ground glass frame complete, and sanded to 4.8mm thick, the guides for the ground glass are milled and drilled for the spring locating pins:

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Then glued to the frame:

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With the pins and the springs attached - it's necessary to provide a rebate for the springs to live in, to provide sufficient pressure to make the ground glass flat against the frame - then a film carrier can be test fitted.

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And finally it's starting to look like a camera. The four thumbscrews allow the back plate to be removed and replaced in the portrait orientation.

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There are still things to do. In particular, should the bellow be attached by screws or glued or some other approach, and should it have the frame or not? Also, how to finish the wood: I have an experiment with six or seven coats of clear wax, and I think that might be the way to go.

And of course, there's all the brass work still to do...

Neil

[Peter De Smidt]

I would use screws for the bellows. It makes it so much easier to replace them down-the-road.

You're making terrific progress!

[barnacle]

Just a single picture today... had I been a bit brighter, I would have remembered to have fitted the guide rails *before* completing the focus slide, because then I could have screwed them on with some semblance of correct alignment. Instead, I have had to rely on the magic power of cyanoacrylates...

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The first attempt at milling the brasswork was so embarrassing I didn't even photograph it :)

Neil

[Steven Tribe]

Honesty is the best policy! When I do DIY postings, I always include/delay a day or twos slack to cover for unfortunate results!

Back to the base/back hinges. I find it difficult to imagine a solid and attractive hinge system that will fit the "box" type construction of the base.

[Tim Meisburger]

I'm suprised you used thumbscrews on the back, rather than a more common method, as changing orientation will be really slow. I can change the orientation of any of my cameras in just a few seconds.

Anyway, looks like you are making good progress, and I will be interested in seeing your metal work, as that is next up for me on my (much slower) 8x10 build.

[barnacle]

Heh, I don't claim to use the best method in any given design scenario. As you point out it is slow; clips (as on my Sanderson) would be much faster but does require a precise fit to the back box. Without a better equipped workshop and much more practised skills, I'm not sure it would be easy for me... It's not a thing I change very often, anyway :)

Neil

[barnacle]

So here's today's effort, and then that's it for a couple of weeks as I will be being entertained by my granddaughter (and visiting Fotoimpex) in Berlin.

This is the second attempt at the smallest of the slotted brass rails. Turns out that this brass is harder than I had thought... I've included the less laughable of last night's attempt, with a test from this morning. Just another five of these in various lengths.

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Neil

[mcg_photography]

The back board is almost complete:

After making the board and sanding flat, I milled the indents for the film holder (strictly, there's a fancy shape for it, but I just hit it with a 2.5mm mill and 2mm deep).

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Then the end stop, critically positioned with reference to the slot above, using a holder as a jig and lots of clamps:

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Then the side slides, jigged with a millimetre or so of clearance so the slide goes in easily.

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And with the film holder in place.

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Neil

all of this section on the back is SUPER helpful to me. I realize I have some design errors I need to correct before building. Thanks for posting it! Keep up the good work!

[barnacle]

It's amazing how well it fits together on the computer and how bad I am at cutting straight lines and correct thicknesses! I'll be working on this later this week when I return home.

I'm having a rethink on mounting the back plate in H and V orientation based on Tim's comment, but it's not on the critical path.

Here's a Tinkercad view of the struts: I might splash the nine quid and see how (in)flexible the material is. https://tinkercad.com/things/hb6n9j2aRuQ

Neil

[barnacle]

A little shiny bit. These are the supports for the front standard; they tilt back to match the dropped bed. The lens both pivots and slides in the slots (some of which are straighter than others, ahem). I may need something more complex between the lensboard and the supports to lock the tilt; still thinking about that. It might be a case for some 3-d printed plastic.

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Neil

[barnacle]

More shiny... I do believe we're getting there.

A sneaky way to keep the lens board vertical, unless I need to tilt it: I cut 3mm discs from 19mm / 3/4 inch round bar and milled 10mm (a bit over, actually) slots in them, 0.5mm deep (20 thou). The centre hole is tapped for 3mm bolts which bolt to the angle and will then pass through the slotted risers. Most of the time, just using rise/fall, this keeps things parallel; if tilt is needed, then the thumbscrews are released that extra turn and the whole lensboard can then tilt.

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The angle is then superglued (cyanoacrylate) to the lensboard which locks everything in position.

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Everything is screwed to the extension traveller:

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And everything even fits in the box. The only problem is that the guides are now a quarter inch too thick... I need to think about that. Change the bellows mounting, perhaps.

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Neil

[barnacle]

Removed the front bellows frame (per the earliest posts here) and glued it to the front standard; many tiny bulldog clips hold everything in place until the glue dries. The glue will let me salvage the bellows in future, I think.

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And finally we have something which, at dusk and with the light behind it, might be mistaken for a camera.

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Rather annoyingly, I can't find my 1/4 Whitworth tap, so I can't make the tripod mount and I may use a 3/8 that I made for a previous camera. I did want to use the pan and tilt head I have, though, which has 1/4 screws and a 3/8 hole to fit the tripod stem. I might just stick with 3/8 and find a 1/4 - 3/8 adaptor; at least that way I can use it with or without the head, which has nice weight implications.

Neil

[Barry Kirsten]

Great work, Neil, despite the reservations you have about your ability. I've been following your progress with interest for my own future building plans. I'm wondering if you've made a decision yet on whether to glue or pin the pinion gears to the shaft? Obviously with modern glues a glued joint would be pretty permanent, but I wonder if pinning would be better to allow for later dismantling for repair etc. On the other hand, pinning would be difficult to do with precision. A grub screw would be the ideal solution, but not with delrin gears, I think.

[Leszek Vogt]

Neil, it looks real nice. I'm wondering whether the front hides inside (there are hinges)....in order to flip the rail portion up to close the camera ? I presume this has been worked out in your plans.

Les

[barnacle]

@Barry - still not decided about pinning or glueing. There are difficulties getting access to the pinion in place in either case but I think it might have to be a 'soft' glue like a contact adhesive. I think once the pinions are in place, there they shall stay!

@Leszek - there is the hinge that you see and another at the other side, which allows the to pivot and the bed to lift once the front standard slides back off the guides. It's a part of the design I'm not totally happy with, to be honest, but it seems to work.

Today's effort - after seeing it yesterday, it all comes to bits again. Bet you weren't expecting to see that angle cramp again, but this time it's for a flat bellows frame to which the bellows will be glued, and will then bolt into the camera back, saving a couple of millimetres in depth.

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Made the first lens board - two sheets 2.5mm thick with suitable holes for copal 0, laminated together with the grain at right angles for strength. The inside is sprayed matt black.

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As is the light trap of the front standard:

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Neil

[Roger Thoms]

You camera is coming along nicely, good job. Where did you get you bellow?

Roger

[Roger Thoms]

Oh, Custom Bellows some years ago. Yeah it helps to actually read the thread. :)

Roger

[Steve Smith]

Very nice. My current 5x4 build is also sapele, although I usually refer to it (wrongly) as mahogany when explaining it to people.


Steve.

[barnacle]

It's not my favourite wood, but it's interesting. It's not too heavy, it's dense enough to machine, and it comes up lovely after sanding and a few coats of finishing wax.

Neil

[barnacle]

It's getting to the assembly stage now. First, the bellows are glued to the frame I made yesterday, which has been painted matt black to assist the light trap. Many tiny bulldog clips hold the fabric flat (it really didn't want to lie flat; it's been sat with a crease in one corner for a few years).

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And other parts require black paint - the back box face facing the ground glass, and the back plate itself on the forward face. I could spray it all black, but I want the wood visible where it can be, so lots of masking tape is necessary/

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Another design change to do: the original drawings showed a sloped back to the base plate; I think instead I will chamfer the matching edge of the back box, which involves less planing and will probably be stronger overall - certainly easier to implement.

Still to do:

- cut the hole for the lens in the base plate
- make the brass struts to link the base plate and back box (and fit them)
- fit the focus rack and gears
- find some focus knobs
- wax on, wax off - for ten or so layers over a few days
- reassemble everything
- push the button

I think I need to consider some mechanism to lock the extension, too, and maybe the focus, but let's see.

Neil

[barnacle]

Things painted black in all the light traps:

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Trial fit:

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Fiat Lux!

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The hole in the base plate is cut, which was quite, um, interesting; I don't think I have the best choice of hole cutter. The part where it cut through, rattled the base around, and launched the cutter and the chuck from its morse taper on the drill was perhaps the most exciting, but everything seems to have survived.

Still thinking about the best way to implement the lens board clips.

Neil

[Sean Mac]

Wow. You really know how to use a Unimat.I have, amongst others, a Pultra 2" centre high lathe so I can imagine the patience that took. I hope you get a Bridgeport for your birthday. And a piece of floor big enough to put it on!

[barnacle]

I'm sure the folks that designed it all those years ago would have heart attacks if they could see me with it, Sean. Though one of the big problems is backlash in the threads; I've taken three attempts to produce a decent strut this afternoon. It tends to pull itself off line a little.

Never mind, here's today's efforts. First, the focus racks are glued in place - nothing fancy, just Bostik general adhesive and weights overnight.

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A makeshift jig to drill the pinion and the focus drive shaft:

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and the pinion in place, fixed with a bent bit of wire.

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Finally, the single strut I completed today; it's indexed to get the default right angle, but also allows the back to be tilted both forwards and backwards (or allows the bed to drop, depending how you look at it) and also holds the box closed.

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Pictures this week?

Neil

[barnacle]

The second strut is completed, but I may need to move the struts forward a few millimetres - there's a little bit of droop in the tailboard. Fitted the tripod mount (3/8th) but I may fit another on the baseboard; it's a long way back and there's a lot of load on the front of it though it does seem stable.

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Worked out how to hold the lens board in. Not terribly elegant, but it'll do for now.

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Almost complete, on a tripod:

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And with the box closed, to show the lens poking through:

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The total weight, with lens, is 1.5kg; just under 1.2kg without the lens.

Still to do: some sort of locking for the extension track - I think some sort of off-centre disc - and a latch to hold things closed, and the focus knobs.

Neil

[barnacle]

I'm rather pleased by this, even though it took most of the afternoon to do - it's a little fiddly, but it works well.

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Neil

[barnacle]

Still waiting for the focus knobs, so, er, I didn't bother and went and attacked St Alban's Cathedral this afternoon. The negatives are drying as I write.

Neil

[barnacle]

Hmm. Some pictures, and some thoughts...

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1/ The images are all soft. I don't know why, but I *suspect* that it is because the idiot taking the pictures forgot to take the cable release for the lens, so had to hold the release during exposure - and as the interiors were four and eight seconds, it's likely there was movement. I don't think that the lens was being pulled out of focus, as there's no obvious focus plane in the nave shot. Further investigation to be made.

2/ The bed needs a redesign. The shortest lens it can focus to infinity is likely to be a 135mm and I would have liked a 90mm to be usable. This is because of the unused space at the back of the bed which isn't really necessary except as somewhere to fasten the hinges. A redesign will be required to fix that.

3/ Some sort of handle for the ground glass will ease lifting it away from the focus plane to push the film holder in, but the spring strength is fine.

4/ The diagonal braces that hold the back suffer a little from their position; they need to be further away from the hinge for better stability. There's also a little movement in the fixing bolts through the wood; a better approach would be to mount something on a metal plate.

On the whole, I'm pleased. The camera is only half the weight of the one I have been using, and it folds up smaller. I don't think the focus is an issue, but I'll know later - at at present I don't have a 90mm lens :)

Neil

[Barry Kirsten]

Great work, Neil, and with those tweaks you'll have a worthy camera. Well done.

[barnacle]

I think I was correct about the focus issue being down to me hanging on to the lens. Here's two of the most boring shots of my back garden, one (slightly underexposed) at f5.6 and one at f32, without touching the focus between shots. The focal point is the little sheet of stars shown in the detail images.

F32: 148222 148223

F5.6: 148224 148225

Ignoring the underexposure, there doesn't look a lot wrong with the focus (done with a cable release both times!). These are untweaked, straight from the scanner.

Neil

[barnacle]

Also, got the focus knobs sorted. They're intended for a 1/4" shaft, so I had to make a sleeve to get them down to 3mm, with a hole to clear the grubscrew.

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For now, while I think about a better hinge mechanism, I think it's done.

Neil