Source for 6' Stainless Steel darkroom sink?

[Greg]

My present sink is plastic and was purchased at a tag sale for around $20. After using it for a year, think I may have paid too much for it!

Planned on replacing it with a 6 foot Stainless Steel sink. Was directed to Rosy Products:
http://www.rosyproducts.com
and called them (him). Owner and fabricator was just plain pleasant and helpful to talk with. Unfortunately he is healing from an injury/operation and isn't able to fabricate his sinks till later this year.

Any recommendations on where to purchase a 24" x 72" Stainless Steel sink (hopefully with a base/stand)?

thanks

Greg

[Tin Can]

I think I saw that size on B&H recently.

[Drew Wiley]

There are used lab & darkroom supply companies. But search under Graphics Arts rather than just Photographic supplies. You'll find things at a mere fraction of the
price they were new. You also need to know the difference between true lab grade stainless (316 or 303) and something cheap (like 8-18). The thickness gauge also applies. Many plastics are much better at chemical resistance than basic marine-grade stainless steel. Cheap "stainless" kitchen sinks might rust in half an
hour with lemon juice or ketchup. This can be polished out. But reputable photolab companies like Kreonite used only good stuff. California Stainless is probably
still in business too.

[LabRat]

I think California Stainless is still in biz... But if you need something custom, their wait was something like 15+ months... But stock items should be, well, in stock...

But as Drew said, first look around... A friend saw a big, long sink at an auction house, that had been sold to a dog groomer, that was a California Stainless water jacket sink with temp controller & re-circulator , and it went for less than $150... Also check city, state, county, school district, university, hospital, food service supply, etc surplus sales, as many of these might have ended up in them... And try print shops/printing suppliers/graphic firms to see if they have some old ones they don't use anymore...

I had gotten some old SS sinks from a high school cafeteria (that was being remodeled) for low cost... If you keep them clean, and avoid splashing them with chems (rinse after using, and wipe dry), they can hold up OK (even though not type 303 or 316)... But you might not need stainless... A really good plastic sink is fine, as long as you don't put a heavy washer in it (should have it's own heavy duty stand anyway)...

Also, take a peek at Flood Tables from a hydroponics supplier... They are a very heavy duty plastic sink with stands, and VERY affordable!!! (And made to hold a heavy load...) Google it... 4X8 is a standard size, and well under $200...

Remember, a sink only needs to hold some trays, and catch spills/splashes, so don't go crazy about them, whatever you have (or get) will be fine... (Like a toilet, they only need to be clean and work...)

Steve K

[Bruce Barlow]

I had a beautiful stainless sink, California Stainless, custom-sized, and I know I didn't wait 15 months. They were wonderful to work with, by the way.

I learned to hate it, and had to do things to make it usable. Mainly, the metal sucks heat from trays at an unbelievable rate. I put 2x4 plastic flourescent light diffusion panels on sticks on the bottom to get the trays off the metal. The sticks allowed water to drain underneath.

In my new darkroom I went back to my roots and made a plywood-and-2x sink, 6" at the front, 12" at the rear. Epoxy paint in large quantities. Total cost under $100, and having had one like it looooong ago, I know I'll like it for the rest of this life. I built it to fit the space - exactly. It sits on a chrome wire shelving unit from The Shelving Store, also custom-heigthted for my 6'6" frame. I still have the plastic panels, and may chop one down to use underneath the film developer tray, since I find film to be much more sensitive to temp variation than print developer. I use the Zone VI Compensating Developing Timer, but nevertheless...

I'm happy, and have money left over for film.

[Richard Wasserman]

In my new darkroom I went back to my roots and made a plywood-and-2x sink, 6" at the front, 12" at the rear. Epoxy paint in large quantities. Total cost under $100, and having had one like it looooong ago, I know I'll like it for the rest of this life. I built it to fit the space - exactly. It sits on a chrome wire shelving unit from The Shelving Store, also custom-heigthted for my 6'6" frame.

That's pretty much exactly what I did in my latest (all 3 over the years actually) darkroom, except that I used 2x4s for legs with plywood shelves. The wire shelving to support the sink is a great idea! I am very happy with the sink and can't imagine a better one. I have used plastic and stainless ones and far prefer wood. In addition to insulating better, it is quieter plus you can make it any color you want. Interior decoration counts for a lot in a room that is used with the lights off...

Greg, I know this doesn't really answer your question, but stainless steel sinks are not the only way to go for a darkroom.

[Michael Clark]

Bruce, did you use any fiberglass reinforcement with the epoxy, or just straight epoxy paint?

[Kevin Crisp]

At least in my neck of the woods, stainless sinks in this size show up fairly regularly on craigslist. Just search "darkroom" both as one word and two. Often the sink isn't mentioned in the title.

[Bruce Barlow]

Bruce, did you use any fiberglass reinforcement with the epoxy, or just straight epoxy paint?

Just straight epoxy paint. I don't see the need for fiberglass reinforcement, given the use it gets. I sealed all the seams with a good caulk, and used a sealing glue to glue the plywood onto the 2x's, and then screwed it together every foot or so, so glued and screwed feels good enough for me.

[Drew Wiley]

Stainless certainly transfers heat quickly. That's why I like it for developing trays, but not for the water jacket itself. Stainless sinks are infamous for condensation
beneath them for the same reason. No big deal. Just sandwich a sheet of rigid blue styro insulation below the sink. I made my sink out of thick polypropylene sheet, but it had to be professionally heat-welded by a guy who actually welds lead liners for nuclear reactors. I buckles a tiny bit with hot water, but is a good
insulator and chemically inert. ABS sheet is a lot easier to work with and can be easily glued, but for the same reason can't tolerate certain solvents. Fiberglass and epoxy are messy and unhealthy, but many people know how to do this. I acquired a small fortune of stainless gear from a derelict dye transfer lab for a minor horse trade, next to nothing, really. But if you are serious, you do need genuine 300-ish grade. Plenty of chem we use in the darkroom are strong enough to mess with cheapo "stainless" alloys.

[Drew Wiley]

Bruce. I know your idea is popular. But believe me, if it doesn't fail over the long haul, I'd be quite surprised. And name one caulk on this planet that will hold up
for serious darkroom use. I do know a thing or two about caulk. We sell nearly a million bucks worth of it per year here for all kinds of applications.

[jbenedict]

Restaurants also use stainless steel for their sinks and kitchen hardware. Restaurant supply stores could have something in both new and used.

[jbenedict]

Bruce. I know your idea is popular. But believe me, if it doesn't fail over the long haul, I'd be quite surprised. And name one caulk on this planet that will hold up
for serious darkroom use. I do know a thing or two about caulk. We sell nearly a million bucks worth of it per year here for all kinds of applications.

3M 5200? The good stuff takes forever to cure but is very difficult to remove once cured. I have seen boat cleats which have been bedded in 5200 that, when removed, pulled the gelcoat off of fiberglass.

[Jerry Bodine]

I had a beautiful stainless sink...They were wonderful to work with, by the way.

I learned to hate it, and had to do things to make it usable. Mainly, the metal sucks heat from trays at an unbelievable rate. I put 2x4 plastic flourescent light diffusion panels on sticks on the bottom to get the trays off the metal. The sticks allowed water to drain underneath...

I have two 24"-wide ss sinks, 84" and 48" long, end to end. To get the trays off the metal I went to Lowe's and bought a 2x12ft long corrugated plastic roofing panel ($12) and cut it into two lengths to fit both sinks. These allow water to flow to the sink drain. For a water jacket, I place trays in larger trays and run temp-controlled water through tubing into the larger trays, replacing the tempered water periodically. 20x24 trays are jacketed by inserting a pvc standpipe (with O-ring seal) in the drain, thus filling the sink to the height of the standpipe; the water is periodically replaced. At the end of each printing session I rinse the corrugated panels and stand them on end in the sinks (supported by the overhead film drying wires) to drip dry, then rinse the sinks and wipe them dry.

[Drew Wiley]

Yes, I know about the 3M marine caulks - we sell them here and they are damned good products. But even saltwater isn't the same thing as what potentially goes into a darkroom sink. I also handle mountains of marine epoxies, and in the past we were a major supplier to the Navy, which had permits to use all kinds of the
really good stuff which would handle even a nitric acid bath, or kill you first just merely applying it! While such solutions have been used for many a home darkroom in the past, there are just so many sensible options where seams aren't involved at all, or where you can positively solvent weld them. But if one wants to go on the cheap, a simple ABS tub liner or a couple of large mortar trays would do the trick.

[Jim Noel]

A few months with a stainless sink and you will be wishing you had something which did not suck the heat out of chemistry or make so much noise.
My sink is an inside out boat. I built it of plywood and sealed the inside with 2 coats of West Systems epoxy. It was built in 1989, has never leaked and has never been refinished. I added powdered graphite to the mix so it is black.

[Bruce Barlow]

Bruce. I know your idea is popular. But believe me, if it doesn't fail over the long haul, I'd be quite surprised. And name one caulk on this planet that will hold up
for serious darkroom use. I do know a thing or two about caulk. We sell nearly a million bucks worth of it per year here for all kinds of applications.

If we define "the long haul" as the rest of my days this side of the grass, then the haul isn't so long. My other one showed no signs of failing in ten years. And if it does? Recaulk. Repaint. At worst, resink. I'm still way ahead.

And I don't understand how "serious darkroom work" places caulk in jeopardy. The only time it gets wet is when I dump trays. Otherwise the toys I have drain through hoses directly into the sink drain. Does it fail if I look at it funny?

How many plywood sinks do you know of that have actually failed? Is your opinion based on actual experience? Whose? I'd like to talk to them and learn.

[Richard Wasserman]

My previous wood sink—plywood/epoxy—was 25 years old when we moved about 2 years ago. My current sink is plywood/epoxy paint, iand relatively new, but I have every confidence that it will hold up well. It has tight fitting seams, a small amount of caulk, and 3 liberal coats of paint inside and out. I think we all define what is best for us differently. Sometimes good enough and affordable or being done in a timely fashion, is better than the hypothetical "Best".

[david@bigeleisenlaw.com]

All wooden boats leak. A plywood sink is just a wooden boat in reverse. I bought a custom make stainless sink from California Stainless more than ten years ago. I couldn't be happier.

[MrFujicaman]

Back in 2006, Gordon Hutchings wrote an article in View Camera titled "Building the Dream Darkroom". In it he describes how he built his darkroom sinks out of plywood and then had them sprayed with Rhino Liner at a local shop. Rhino liner is a brand of spray on pickup truck bed liner. I used Rustolem spray on pickup bed liner to make a tray for processing film a few years ago and I can't see any sign of it degrading. I also had a stick with a sample of Rhino Liner on it years ago that I stuck in a bottle of fixer and forgot for 2 years ! No sign of peeling or degrading after spending 2 years of 24/7 submersion in the fixer.

Mr. Hutching said in his article that the only thing that attacked the Rhino Liner was Pyro and all that did was stain the Rhino Liner.

Greg, if you want a PDF of the article, PM me with an email address and I'll scan it and email it to you.

[Drew Wiley]

Yeah, yeah, I've seen it all and probably done it all - penetrating epoxies, epoxy paint, fiberglass, thermoplastics, blah, blah, products you've never even heard of. I sell all the above too, and have been involved in more damn sink projects, all the way from home darkrooms and teaching darkrooms to full industrial nasty chem applications, than I care to remember. It's just that the cheap and easy way often isn't. I could personally make a very clean seamless ABS sink cheaper and faster than anything plywood & paint, and not have to deal with the fumes either, other than a bit of solvent welding. Or if you can afford it, just order one of those nice stainless ones and put some insulation under it. So much of this reminds me of those classic old Popular Mechanics do-it-yourself articles, like "How to Build Your Own Nuclear Submarine Using Spare Washing Machine Parts".

[Bruce Barlow]

Yeah, yeah, I've seen it all and probably done it all - penetrating epoxies, epoxy paint, fiberglass, thermoplastics, blah, blah, products you've never even heard of. I sell all the above too, and have been involved in more damn sink projects, all the way from home darkrooms and teaching darkrooms to full industrial nasty chem applications, than I care to remember. It's just that the cheap and easy way often isn't. I could personally make a very clean seamless ABS sink cheaper and faster than anything plywood & paint, and not have to deal with the fumes either, other than a bit of solvent welding. Or if you can afford it, just order one of those nice stainless ones and put some insulation under it. So much of this reminds me of those classic old Popular Mechanics do-it-yourself articles, like "How to Build Your Own Nuclear Submarine Using Spare Washing Machine Parts".

But you can't seem to cite a real case where one actually failed?

[Drew Wiley]

Oh to answer your question, Bruce ... How many wood & epoxy dkrm sinks have I seen fail - quite a few of em over the years. How much caulk failure - many
millions of dollars worth if you factor the water damage, provided it went somewhere you really didn't want it to (not all darkrooms or analogous projects are in a cement basement). I really don't care how you do it, as long as it meets your personal expectations and you enjoy your project. Just realize that for every personal application you cite, I have a mental data base of thousands of em. Not that I'm any smarter than the rest of you. Just comes with the territory in my kind of business.

[Richard Wasserman]

Let's see, I think I have an old washing machine around here somewhere. Maybe next to the cold fission reactor I built with cereal boxes and a skateboard...

[MrFujicaman]

Well, Drew, I also have plans from the old Darkroom Photography magazine for making a sink out of 1/4 PVC sheets.

[Drew Wiley]

Gosh, Bruce.. I don't want to argue with you. This is what I do for a living. The whole damn America's Cup teams shopped here, and carbon fiber isn't even a specialty of ours. I'm a stone's throw from the Marina. I'm surrounded by biotech and pharmaceutical plants. We sell more marine epoxy here than the factory
store itself does up the road. Our average portable wood sander sale is over a thousand bucks, including one less than five minutes ago. I have more kinds of sandpaper on the shelf than you've probably ever heard of. Marine plywood is less than fifty feet down the hall. I don't need to "cite" anyone else. I AM considered
the expert in this part of the world.

[Tin Can]

Epoxy is nasty, as is caulk. OK for boats built outside.

My Leedall sinks made by http://rosyproducts.com/ many decades ago, are insulated, clean and strong. I can walk in mine when necessary. They hold water to the top, I checked, that's some serious weight.

I have used wood sinks, but buying these 3 sinks was cheaper, faster and way easier. I gave a fiberglass one to the gardeners here, for a potting bench. They drilled holes in it to fasten it to a bench...:(

Each to their own. As many have said, they are just for spills...

[Kevin Crisp]

I also thought epoxy was nasty until I used the west system products. Easy too use and virtually odorless. Very tough stuff when brushed on. Yes, you have to add one part to another, but after that it is as easy to use as a can of paint.

[Drew Wiley]

Pro and cons. Here in earthquake country, a sink without seams is a benefit. Oddly, what caused me problems recently was our drought and the foundation settling
different. I had to reset my darkroom door twice, once for that, and now afterwards, as the soil has swelled again. Will also have to caulk and retouch joints on the
darkroom walls, and should probably double-check all my enlarger planes. No way I want to do a fiberglass anything indoors. PVC (or in my case, polypropylene)
sheeting can flex with temperature. Polypro tolerates much more heat than vinyl, and is chemically inert, important to me since I work with various color chem
as well as b&w. There are just a lot of options out there worth at least considering. And remember that relatively unstinky epoxy paints aren't anywhere near as
chem resistant as the old gnarly kind. If you want the ultimate coating and don't mind emphysema the rest of your life, there are true liquid hypalon rubber
coatings. But you'll need to build your nuke sub or aircraft carrier first, cause they can't be legally applied except in international waters. Same goes for polysilicone enamels without a special exemption. Have fun. The prints themselves don't care.

[Tin Can]

I also thought epoxy was nasty until I used the west system products. Easy too use and virtually odorless. Very tough stuff when brushed on. Yes, you have to add one part to another, but after that it is as easy to use as a can of paint.

West products are not inexpensive. I am very familiar it. Outdoors.

[Greg]

Back in 2006, Gordon Hutchings wrote an article in View Camera titled "Building the Dream Darkroom".

MrFujicaman, thank you.

Found my JULY/AUGUST issue of VIEWCAMERA. 2 sinks: 42"x96" and 34"x96" in his darkroom, boy am I jealous. Article has 3 photos of the sinks with detailed descriptions. I've been searching out several in-state possible sources for a stainless steel sinks but so far nothing.

Greg

[MrFujicaman]

Glad I could help.

[MrFujicaman]

And what state are you in by the way ?

[Drew Wiley]

We deal mostly with Smith for penetrating epoxy. West is a reputable direct competitor. Smith for years has had a handout sheet for darkrooms, but with the
notable improvement of using packed moldable epoxy in all the joints rather than caulk. I'd far rather than something with no seams at all. And that damn epoxy
is very unhealthy to use indoors. The fellow who worked the counter at the plant is now so sensitized that he can't even touch a baked enamel metal desk fifty
years old without breaking out in hives. Extreme amine sensitivity I presume.

[Greg]

And what state are you in by the way ?

Connecticut

[LabRat]

And I repeat... (Again, sigh...)

Has anyone clicked a finger on a mouse to google "flood tables for hydroponics" yet!?!!! They are fantastic, cheap, different sizes, ready made, less than the cost of materials to make one from scratch, and strong...

What are you waiting for!?!!!! (I understand if someone has a custom build requirement, but!?!!!)

Steve K

[Joe O'Hara]

Well the OP was asking about stainless steel. I can recommend http://rosyproducts.com/,
assuming the owner is still in operation.

7x2 foot sink, backsplash, and stand shipped to NJ for less than comparable sinks from B&H.
I am pleased with the quality and the lead time was a couple of months. This was in 2014.

Customization is available.

[Tin Can]

Yes they seem perfect.


And I repeat... (Again, sigh...)

Has anyone clicked a finger on a mouse to google "flood tables for hydroponics" yet!?!!! They are fantastic, cheap, different sizes, ready made, less than the cost of materials to make one from scratch, and strong...

What are you waiting for!?!!!! (I understand if someone has a custom build requirement, but!?!!!)

Steve K

[Jim Fitzgerald]

And I repeat... (Again, sigh...)

Has anyone clicked a finger on a mouse to google "flood tables for hydroponics" yet!?!!! They are fantastic, cheap, different sizes, ready made, less than the cost of materials to make one from scratch, and strong...

What are you waiting for!?!!!! (I understand if someone has a custom build requirement, but!?!!!)

Steve K

I'll need to do some kind of sink in my new darkroom which will have to be in the shower. I'll be removing the door etc. These trays or all f the suggestions may work for me. Thanks.

[Greg]

Well the OP was asking about stainless steel. I can recommend http://rosyproducts.com/,
assuming the owner is still in operation.

7x2 foot sink, backsplash, and stand shipped to NJ for less than comparable sinks from B&H.
I am pleased with the quality and the lead time was a couple of months. This was in 2014.

Customization is available.

Talked with him last month and unfortunately due to health problems he won't be constructing large sinks till sometime later this year. Too bad, really wanted to deal with him
Greg

[Greg]

And I repeat... (Again, sigh...)

Has anyone clicked a finger on a mouse to google "flood tables for hydroponics" yet!?!!! They are fantastic, cheap, different sizes, ready made, less than the cost of materials to make one from scratch, and strong...

What are you waiting for!?!!!! (I understand if someone has a custom build requirement, but!?!!!)

Steve K

Thanks

Googled it back when but only found 6 foot flood tables that are 3 feet wide. My present sink 6 foot x 2 foot plus a few inches and is a tight fit... that 3 foot dimension just won't fit in my darkroom unless I was to extend out the wall opposite the sink.... seriously considered it but would entail also having to move an insulated heating duct which killed that project for me to pursue

Greg

[Drew Wiley]

Being able to carry a big sink and install it is also a factor in what might work best. I cheated and built the sink station first, then the darkrooms walls afterwards.

[Peter De Smidt]

I build a 2x8ft plywood sink 20 years ago or more. It's held up fine. If I were to do it again, I'd do the same thing but cover it with epdm rubber roofing, which you can buy at your local home improvement store. I used two part epoxy bathroom paint, not the latex kind. It was super duper stinky, and I'm not sure you can buy it anymore anyway. The two part water-based kind is not near as good, at least it wasn't when I last tried it, about 10 years ago.

[Drew Wiley]

Yes. If you have a friend who is a commercial roofer and has something left over from a roll, he can do a torch-down job inside your sink with various excellent
rubber liners, including hypalon, which is really overkill in terms of chemical resistance. But back to my economics. I can buy all this stuff below wholesale. But
even I would pay more to build a quality wooden sink, properly sealed, than simply paying full retail price in the most expensive plastic shop in town for a 4x8 ft
sheet of 1/4" ABS. Plus I'd be done in about two hours, versus several days of reapplying nasty coatings using plywood. Good marine ply and true epoxy is downright expensive, and frankly, I have questions about the sanity of anyone who would apply it indoors.

[Richard Wasserman]

I build a 2x8ft plywood sink 20 years ago or more. It's held up fine. If I were to do it again, I'd do the same thing but cover it with epdm rubber roofing, which you can buy at your local home improvement store. I used two part epoxy bathroom paint, not the latex kind. It was super duper stinky, and I'm not sure you can buy it anymore anyway. The two part water-based kind is not near as good, at least it wasn't when I last tried it, about 10 years ago.

Coatings have improved in the last 10 years. I used a Sherwin Williams waterborne 2-part epoxy paint on my sink. It was very easy to mix and apply. It needed ventilation—I ran my exhaust fan for 24 hours, but it did not have nearly the smell that I expected. I wore a respirator when applying it as I didn't want to breathe whatever chemicals were being emitted . It is only 2 years old, but looks like it will hold up quite well.

[Drew Wiley]

All these companies should have specific chemical resistance tables in their tech literature. Of course, there's a world of difference between draining out 2% acetic acid stop bath into your sink and an accidental spill of glacial acetic acid, which would separate the men from the boys in terms of epoxies. Some color chemicals
can eat up lots of things over time. And as for that nonsense caulk argument, I happen to sell machines and appropriate accessories to remove and reapply marine caulks as part of inevitable maintenance, so all the boatyard owners who come in here know the truth about it, even if darkroom workers don't.

[Richard Wasserman]

All these companies should have specific chemical resistance tables in their tech literature. Of course, there's a world of difference between draining out 2% acetic acid stop bath into your sink and an accidental spill of glacial acetic acid, which would separate the men from the boys in terms of epoxies. Some color chemicals
can eat up lots of things over time. And as for that nonsense caulk argument, I happen to sell machines and appropriate accessories to remove and reapply marine caulks as part of inevitable maintenance, so all the boatyard owners who come in here know the truth about it, even if darkroom workers don't.


My requirements for a sink are fairly modest. I do B&W only. I use citric acid stop for paper, water for film. My developer's main ingredients are sodium sulfite and sodium carbonate. All in all relatively benign and not very hard on the sink finish. Mainly my sink must hold a bit of water and not leak. Others of course may have different needs.

[Drew Wiley]

In the bad old days we had all kinds of nasty things like hot solvent moisture-cure urethanes and two-component cross-linked formaldehyde systems - really tough when cured, if you were lucky to live long enough to monitor the performance. Even the navy has strict safety rules in place by now, often more stringent than on
land. The Columbians seems to be a little more lax in how they build and operate subs; but at least they read the back issues of Popular Mechanics.

[peter schrager]

I've used marine products over plywood on several sinks...holding up really well and there is no off gas...marine paint is some the most advanced in the world...you can wonderful things with wood

[Bill_1856]

There's one in my garage for anyone who wants to pick it up. (Sarasota)

[Drew Wiley]

No outgassing? Then you should patent whatever product you're talking about, because many of these things gradually outgas for years, even if you're unaware of it. Some old school spars varnishes and oils were designed to never really dry, and when they finally do, they lose their usefulness. There are obviously many
newer options to choose from today. But I wouldn't worry about this in any decently ventilated darkroom. Putting stuff on is in the first place can be a different subject. It's helpful to install your fume hood first. People with sensitivities are a special subject and should really be looking at stainless steel to begin with.

[Greg]

Thanks for all the advice. Have finally decided to do the following:

1. Go with an 8 foot sink.

2. Construct a good heavy duty base with lots of dedicated storage and a place to stack and use my drying screens. Then paint it 18% gray like the rest of the darkroom. In designing and building the base, I will make sure it could accommodate a 2x8 foot stainless steel sink by Rosy Products.

3. Construct a 2x8 foot plywood sink to put atop the base and use it ASAP.

4. Keep in contact with Rosy Products and hopefully he can supply me with a 2x8 foot stainless steel sink in the future.

Hydroponic flood tables look great but the 3 foot (plus couple of inches) front to back depth physically won't fit inside the room.

Last darkroom had a beautiful heavy duty stainless steel sink which I picked up as a tag sale for under $10. It was used as a urine collector in a dog kennel so no one else wanted it cause of its providence. .

Greg

[MrFujicaman]

Hey Greg,

I looked at Amazon and www.1000bulbs.com for hydrophonics flood tables cause I got curious. Both places carry Active Aqua 4' by 2' ABS plastic trays. They look pretty heavily made and the cost seems reasonable. the outside measurements are: 53.75" by 29.75" and they seem to be about 6"-7" deep.

[Tin Can]

Thanks for all the advice. Have finally decided to do the following:

1. Go with an 8 foot sink.

2. Construct a good heavy duty base with lots of dedicated storage and a place to stack and use my drying screens. Then paint it 18% gray like the rest of the darkroom. In designing and building the base, I will make sure it could accommodate a 2x8 foot stainless steel sink by Rosy Products.

3. Construct a 2x8 foot plywood sink to put atop the base and use it ASAP.

4. Keep in contact with Rosy Products and hopefully he can supply me with a 2x8 foot stainless steel sink in the future.

Hydroponic flood tables look great but the 3 foot (plus couple of inches) front to back depth physically won't fit inside the room.

Last darkroom had a beautiful heavy duty stainless steel sink which I picked up as a tag sale for under $10. It was used as a urine collector in a dog kennel so no one else wanted it cause of its providence. .

Greg

LOL, that got me laughing as one of my sinks came out of a horse barn and needed a lot of cleaning. The price was $50.

[Jerry Bodine]

...Last darkroom had a beautiful heavy duty stainless steel sink which I picked up as a tag sale for under $10. It was used as a urine collector in a dog kennel so no one else wanted it cause of its providence...

I'm pretty sure you meant provenance, but in a way coming across a deal like that likely involved some providence as well. :)

[neil poulsen]

I'll be replacing my sink in the near future with a 6' Delta 1 "The Sink II". They're available at B&H for just under $400 w/free shipping.

I've used a 4' version for years and want to upsize. Great for B&W.

[Greg]

I'll be replacing my sink in the near future with a Delta 1 "The Sink II".

I believe mine sink is one from Delta 1. If they produced different models, mine must have been one of the first. Came with quite a few holes and cracks that I had to address. Previous owner also must have cleaned paint brushes and more in it.

Greg

[Drew Wiley]

Delta was just molded ABS, so don't drop anything heavy in there, and don't spill any solvents like acetone. But if you do manage to crack it, the fact that it is solvent susceptible means it's real easy to repair using ordinary ABS pipe cement.

[epraus]

I have a 6' ss sink available for pickup at my lab. I would have to double check the dimensions to be sure. It is very well maintained and the price is $175.00 pickup only. Let me know if you would like pictures and a dimension check via PM.

[John Olsen]

Just straight epoxy paint. I don't see the need for fiberglass reinforcement, given the use it gets. I sealed all the seams with a good caulk, and used a sealing glue to glue the plywood onto the 2x's, and then screwed it together every foot or so, so glued and screwed feels good enough for me.

Me too. I've got two that are 23 and 14 years old, respectively. I built them exactly to fit various past locations. I didn't have to worry about their cost and bought film and paper instead. I dry them carefully after use and occasionally recoat the bottoms when the surfaces start to look worn. If I get clumsy and damage a spot, I just dig out the spot a little and fill it with epoxy.
146561
I see beautiful S.S. sinks here in the LFForum sometime and I'll admit they look great. But don't get too hung up on commercial grade materials unless you're actually using highly toxic chemicals on a daily basis.

[Greg]

I see beautiful S.S. sinks here in the LFForum sometime and I'll admit they look great. But don't get too hung up on commercial grade materials unless you're actually using highly toxic chemicals on a daily basis.

Agree 100%. I have a friend who put out almost 2 grand for a digital Temp control unit and 2 SS sinks. One for working in and the other to hold his JOBO rotary processor. He only shoots 35mm & 120 B&W film and prints only traditional silver gelatin (RC) B&W prints. And add to that he uses the most environmentally friendly chemistry out there.

[ShannonG]

I have that same complaint about my current stainless steel sink about the temp.loss. I resolved it by putting watter proof heating pads under the trays(the type used for aquariums).But if i had to replace it i would build my own sink much like the one you built.

I had a beautiful stainless sink, California Stainless, custom-sized, and I know I didn't wait 15 months. They were wonderful to work with, by the way.

I learned to hate it, and had to do things to make it usable. Mainly, the metal sucks heat from trays at an unbelievable rate. I put 2x4 plastic flourescent light diffusion panels on sticks on the bottom to get the trays off the metal. The sticks allowed water to drain underneath.

In my new darkroom I went back to my roots and made a plywood-and-2x sink, 6" at the front, 12" at the rear. Epoxy paint in large quantities. Total cost under $100, and having had one like it looooong ago, I know I'll like it for the rest of this life. I built it to fit the space - exactly. It sits on a chrome wire shelving unit from The Shelving Store, also custom-heigthted for my 6'6" frame. I still have the plastic panels, and may chop one down to use underneath the film developer tray, since I find film to be much more sensitive to temp variation than print developer. I use the Zone VI Compensating Developing Timer, but nevertheless...

I'm happy, and have money left over for film.

[marieho]

My present sink is plastic and was purchased at a tag sale for around $20. After using it for a year, think I may have paid too much for it!

Planned on replacing it with a 6 foot Stainless Steel sink. Was directed to Rosy Products:
http://www.rosyproducts.com
and called them (him). Owner and fabricator was just plain pleasant and helpful to talk with. Unfortunately he is healing from an injury/operation and isn't able to fabricate his sinks till later this year.

Any recommendations on where to purchase a 24" x 72" Stainless Steel sink (hopefully with a base/stand)?

thanks

Greg

This can be polished out. But reputable photolab companies like Kreonite used only good stuff
http://hautavis.net/128/o.png

[Greg]

First off thanks for all the responses. Am posting some observations to pass on which hopefully would be of some help to another forum member constructing a sink and /or darkroom.

Decided to go the plywood route for the third time in my life. Local lumber company cut up 3 sheets of exterior grade plywood and delivered it in 2 days. When I was talking with the owner, he said cutting up the plywood was no problem but would take an extra day to do it and he could only guarantee that the dimensions of the plywood to be within the width of their saw blade!!!! No problem there. I had to additionally make only 3 cuts. Owner advised me that marine plywood was an overkill for a darkroom sink especially if it was to be painted over several times (his father was a photographer and he has been in the lumber business for the past 30+? years).

Also advised me to use SCORPION brand ceramic coated Decking screws. They are square drive and not phillips headed. Also drilled holes with a countersink combination drill bit. Amount of screws I used was definitely an overkill (6 inches OC), but not one of them had its head stripped which I'm sure would have happened with phillips head screws.

After making and trying several full size cardboard mock-ups the sink height tuned out to be about 35" and front 40" . 8 foot long sink has a 3/4" tilt side to side to the drain and a 1/4" tilt too the rear of the sink.

Sink is separate from base "cabinet". If I ever want to replace the sink with a SS one, would be a simple thing to do. Realistically probably will never happen.

Paint for interior of sink: Epoxy not possible to do outside up here in the dead of the winter. Will be putting in 2 small ventilation fans to exit outside but once the weather gets warmer. Went to out local paint store and asked them. They advised me to use 2 coats of Rust-oleum Restore 4X Deck Coat paint over Rust-oleum's proprietary primer. Ended up with a heavy coat of primer and putting on 6 coats of Restore 4X Deck paint. Plan on repainting the inside of the sink every year. Paint was so thick, that it naturally caulked up the corner seams with the first coat. Paint odor while drying was absolutely minimal. With winter's low humidity and a temp of 60 degrees in the room, paint dried within 1/2 hour and seams in 2 hours. The sink is not going to be used for holding water, but only for holding trays of liquids and water run off from film/paper washers to drain.

On the bottom right 9 screens 22" x 26" print drying screens sliding in and out on spaced 1x3s under sink. Thought I'd have to install a "computer" fan in the back to dry the prints, but they easily dry overnight.

Drain at one end of the sink. Slopped the sink at 1/8" per foot plus front slightly higher than back. 8 foot sink so right side is 1 inch higher then left side with drain. Have an old black Kodak heavy duty print squeegee that I use to push water into the drain at the end of a darkroom session.

Was blessed to have a 2x2' opening with dry well underneath one end of the sink so directed all sink drainage to it instead of the septic tank. Before installing the cabinet base and kind of sealing it up poured 5 gallons of water all at once into it and essentially it drained instantly.

Darkroom wiring: I wired the darkroom on 2 separate GFI 20 amp circuits.... Total overkill. So had to use 12-2 wire and much harder to wire up the more expensive 20 amp outlets into the 4x4 boxes. Should have gone with 2 separate GFI 15 amp circuits and 14-2 wire... would have been much, much easier.

Suspended ceiling (had to work it around insulated heating/cooling duct system. Room is shy of 9 x 28 feet. One third of "darkroom" is dedicated for camera storage in gray painted steel Kobalt cabinets (LOWES). Installed three 4 bulb fluorescent fixtures. Worked out perfectly. When all are on, the room is totally illuminated. Wish I had installed several rows of LEDs... probably lot brighter and less energy consumption.

Thomas Duplex safelight suspended above sink. Would have loved to center it in the darkroom, but had to work around the duct system. Print inspection light located above the fixer tray, used an older rectangular Kodak safelight unit. Still not sure what bulb to use in it. Older 60w tungsten bulb was aways a bit too Kelvin degrees warm. Halogen bulb better?

Installed a basic Delta 1 temp control unit. Having temp controlled water source a pleasure to use. Shelling out almost 2K for a digital temp control unit just not worth it... not doing E-6 but only B&W processing and printing....and 1/3 of the time making Chemiographs to which temp control is totally irrelevant. Just learned about the Delta Eco 1 Basic Unit Thermostatic Water Controller, Regular Water Flow Temperature Control Unit. Few dollars more and would have gone with it but am satisfied with the current Delta unit.

Initially used CPVC pipe to plumb the darkroom's fixtures. It looked terrible. Replace it with Pex tubing and SS compression fittings. Blue Pex for cold water and red Pex for hot water, love the way it looks. Used 1/2 inch Pex and works fine. 3/4 inch would have been and overkill. Had to run about a final 40 foot run of tubing along the basements ceiling. Water enters darkroom from ceiling and is totally exposed on top of the sink. Was amazed to turn the water on and not a single leak anywhere.

Am more and more concentrating on printing Platinum/Palladium form digital negatives. To this end bought a reconditioned Excalibur food dryer. It has 9 screens 15" x 15" (Fine for my 8x10 Platinum/Palladium prints but too small for printing 11x14 inch Platinum/Palladium... problem to deal with later this year.) Will be using it in far end of the darkroom to dry freshly coated Platinum/Palladium paper. Modified bathroom exit fan with duct to outside behind it to exit heavy metal borne particles safely outside way away from the house.

[stawastawa]

huzzah! congrats and thank you for the detailed report! I have saved it and will hopefully use it before too long!

[Greg]

another update...

Drain exits into an existing dry well opening under sink base. Nothing drains into our septic tank. Has been working 100%, even after a storm dumped several inches of rain.

Plywood sink finally coated with 10 coats of Rust-oleum Restore 4X Deck coat paint. Never had to deal with the fumes of epoxy paint. Have had glass beakers fall and tip over and not but break because of the cushion effect of thick coats of paint. Have yet to have the sink stained by several alternative processes that I regularly use. Doubt if I will have to repaint each year as planned.

Very minimal angle of sink base at 1/8" per running foot towards drain has worked out great. At the end of each session use a black heavy duty Kodak squeegee to push and still standing water towards the drain, but lately have found this to not be necessary.

Never too many shelves above the sink to hold bottles of chemicals within easy reach. Added some.

Rack of 9 drying screens under the sink just a pleasure to use but with stagnant air flow, prints were taking a long time to dry. Will be installing 2 small square fans (from a broken computer) behind the screens to drastically increase the air flow. I had wired and made space for them when constructing the sink base.

Installed a Delta 1 temperature control unit. It works fine but its small lever water flow lever is a bit too touchy.... am looking into replacing it with a much larger lever to fine tune the flow of the water.

Have a JOBO processing unit with all the expert drums up to 11x14". Use it after "photo trips" when I shoot many sheets of film. For daily use, when I shoot only a sheet or two of LF or ULF film have been using a Unicolor processing tube roller with Ilford Cibachrome 8x10 and 11x14 processing tubes. Processing times match times using the JOBO.

Have 2 Gralab timers that glow when all lights are out. Also have 4 power strips in the room that I have blacked out their glowing switches. I have one Kodak safelight turned into a print inspection light that is the last light I turn off and the first one I turn on after being in the dark. For under a dollar purchased a small bottle of glowing paint from a Michael's art supple store. Dipped the hanging end of the ... into the paint several times. Now it is so easy to find it to turn the white light on.

Bought an Arista UV Lightsource (20x24") from Freestyle Photo for alternative process work. What a great unit. Requires no fan to cool it down like some other units. Investigated LED high intensity UV light source units, but they were more than X5 times the price of the Arista. Did plug it into a 4x4 box with switch, 2 outlets, and indicator light. Like to visually (red indicator light) know when the UV light source is on. Unit is so perfectly made , that I could imagine leaving the room with the unit on.

Metal shelving units (LOWES) have 2'x4' composition board shelves. Gallon plastic bottle of distilled water leaked and shelving soaked it up like a sponge and ruined the shelf. Am now painting all composition board shelves with primer and a coat of Rust-oleum Restore 4X Deck coat paint.

[wasiraj032]

i dont preffer stain lesss steel sink, it is costly buy no special advantages