Carl Zeiss Jena 15cm 3.5

[Revolucion Artistico]

Hello all just wondering if anyone has any info on this lens as I've yet to be able to find anything other than on the 4.5 version. I'm thinking it might be a Frankenstein as the shutter apertureif is marked 3.6?... Thanks in advance.

Ryan145727145728

[David Lindquist]

I have a copy of circa 1933-34 Zeiss catalogue for the U.S. market. It indicates that the 13.5 cm f/3.5 Tessar "at small stops" covers a circle of 6 1/8 inch diameter. For comparison the 13.5 cm f/4.5 Tessar covers a 6 1/4 inch diameter and the 13.5 cm f/6.3 Tessar covers a 7 1/4 inch diameter circle. Price for your lens in May 1934 was $82.00. I have no idea about the f/3.5 vs. f/3.6. Out of curiosity is the diaphragm scale marked at f/4?

OOPS! Somehow I read "15cm 3.5" as "13.5 cm". For the 15 cm Tessars the respective circle of coverage diameters are 6 3/4, 7 and 7 7/8 inches. The f/3.5 15 cm Tessar price was $100.
David

[IanG]

I have the 135mm f3.5 Tessar in a similar Compur shutter on a 9x12 Ihagee camera. It might just be an error however the lens serial number is for 1938 and the lens you'd expect it to be a rim set Compur not a Dial set. however a quick Google search shows another similar lens from late 1937 in a Dial set shutter as well. The lens is too large for the newer rim set Compur shutters which were only found in #0 & #1 sizes initially. Th #2 and #3 came after WWII and the Compound #3 was still in use until the #3.

So ut's as it should be that's either an error or maybe there's some paint missing.

Ian

[Revolucion Artistico]

The paint is long gone but yes there is an f/4 marking.

Hmm didn't see the other lens you referred to in the Google search, I'll have to try again.

[IanG]

The other was sold on Ebay it's showing on Goole Images on the Hong Kond portal but the seller is a member here. It presumably sold for $150 last May - 281662878156

I've not tried my 135mm f3.5 Tessar yet, I need to repair the focal plane shutter on the Ihagee first, I'd like to compare it to the 6" f3.5 Press (Dalmac) lens on my Dallmeyer Press camera.

Ian

[dagbb]

Here is another which I just bought. It is in beautiful condition, in the original makers box with matching serial. The shutter is marked 3.5, not 3.6 as above.

https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8677/28192130351_b4dfbaf7c1_c.jpg

According to Hartmut Thiele's book on CZJ production, both mine (2425285) and yours (2425235) are part of the same order of 300 "R51" 150mm 3.5 lenses, which started prodcution 28. november 1938. R means diametre according to Thiele, and after checking, it must be the outer diametre of the front element (51mm). R51 seems to indicate the type of compur shutter (the shutterless version is N51). In total 1307 lenses of R51 type were ordered, and production of these lenses began between march 1935 to december 1938. After the war about 200 more were produced, with 150 i N51 mount (normalfassung - shutterless, I think) and 50 in C2 (Compur #2?). The shutter serial of mine is 736XXX, which indicates 1926. Maybe Zeiss Jena stocked up on these shutters?

I'm surprised my lens is T-coated, being so close to the uncoated one above in serial number. I also remember seeing a shutterless CZJ-lens with an early serial, 1.600.000 or so (ordinarily predating coating), with the exact same T-ring in some online forum, with some speculating it was fake. Maybe some serials simply went unused, or coating was applied as an aftermarket service?

Btw, the locknut is missing on mine. Thread seems to be 55,8mm. Anyone know of other lenses where I can find this?

[IanG]

That's a great find particularly as it's T coated.

That's an unusual Compur shutter. Peeling & Van Neck Ltd, the UK Voigtlander distributor, list the Dial set Compur shutters in BJP Almanac adverts and show the largest a #3 as having a 49mm thread internal tube size. I have the 1929 advert in front of me and it's the only time I remember seeing a listing of the variations of the different Dial set shutter sizes.

http://lostlabours.co.uk/photography/cameras/images/compur-dial-set.jpg

Your shutter may be the Dial set #3. Other adverts show there is a gap in German shutter sizes in the 1930's with the Rimset Compur available in #00, #0 and #1 sizes then the big jump to the Compound #3, #4 & #5. Zeiss must have stockpiled the shutters you have.

I had a look through my box of lens flanges the only one that was close to your 55.8mm was a fine thread, the Deckel threads on Dial set Compurs is coarser than the later Rimset shutters

Ian

[Ron (Netherlands)]

ASAIK, F 3.5 is one third above the 3.2 f-stop which would fit in the old German system which has the following list of f-stops: 1.1, 1.6, 2.2, 3.2, 4.5, 6.3, 9, 12.5, 18, 25, 36, 50, 71, 100 (derived from square root 10)
The f 3.5 was the most advanced Tessar of the time - and quite rare nowadays.
On older Compound shutters and lenses you can also find a different listing of f-stops, which is sometimes called the Stolze or Goerz system: 4.6, 6, 12, 24, 48, 96, 192, 384.
Not sure whether f 3.6 would fit in - but it is very doubtful since your Compur shutter is from a later era and has furthermore the modern system which goes on with 5,6, 8, 11 etc.

[AuditorOne]

I have a nice CZJ 15cm 4.5 Tessar in an old dial set Compur shutter that says ICA and Dresden on it. I have no idea how old it is, but the glass is clear and the shutter works like a top.

I recently mounted it in a lens board and will begin using it with my new, Intrepid 4x5 camera. A bit of old with the new.

Based on what I'm reading here, I guess that I shouldn't expect it to fully cover my film when wide open. Sounds like a good landscape lens for me.

From what little I can tell these lens were originally intended for half plate or for 3.5x4.5 cameras.

Mine seems to have come from an ICA Ideal camera at some point in the past.

[Dan Fromm]

Um, for the same focal length an f/6.3 Tessar covers more than an f/4.5 Tessar than an f/3.5 Tessar. From the beginning 150/4.5 Tessars have covered 4x5. The 1910 CZJ catalog recommends the 150/4.5 for 9x12 (a metric format approximately the same as 4x5) and says it will cover 18 cm at small apertures.

Use yours and be happy.

[IanG]

I have a nice CZJ 15cm 4.5 Tessar in an old dial set Compur shutter that says ICA and Dresden on it. I have no idea how old it is, but the glass is clear and the shutter works like a top.

I recently mounted it in a lens board and will begin using it with my new, Intrepid 4x5 camera. A bit of old with the new.

Based on what I'm reading here, I guess that I shouldn't expect it to fully cover my film when wide open. Sounds like a good landscape lens for me.

From what little I can tell these lens were originally intended for half plate or for 3.5x4.5 cameras.

Mine seems to have come from an ICA Ideal camera at some point in the past.

Both the Zeiss Tessar and the Compur shutter have S as you open it uperial Numbers, you can look up the a approx dates, just search Google for Zeiss serial numbers. Your lens will cover 5x4 even at full aperture it's just edge/corner sharpness drops off at wider apertures. At f22 there's room for movemnts as Dan's 18cm image circle indicates.

It's interesting that many of the post WWII "Commercial" Tessar type lenses are f6.3 designs.

Ian

[Dan Fromm]

Ian, don't forget the 150/5.6 and 210/6.1 Xenars, the last, it seems, of the slow Tessar line. I've seen, naturally can't find when I want to point to them, claims that these are the best slow Tessar types ever. Schneider claims they cover 60 degrees @ f/22. This is in line with the estimates of Commercial Ektars' coverage on Brian Wallen's site.

[IanG]

I agree Dan, I have a 150mm f5.6 Xenar, it is an excellent lens but I'd be hard pushed to say it's significantly better than my CZJ T coated 150mm f4.5 Tessar except for the excessive blue bias cuased by the Tessar's coating/

There were also some f5.3 CZJ Tessar lenses. I have a 165mm,

Ian

[AuditorOne]

Um, for the same focal length an f/6.3 Tessar covers more than an f/4.5 Tessar than an f/3.5 Tessar. From the beginning 150/4.5 Tessars have covered 4x5. The 1910 CZJ catalog recommends the 150/4.5 for 9x12 (a metric format approximately the same as 4x5) and says it will cover 18 cm at small apertures.

Use yours and be happy.

Thanks for the encouragement Dan. I will certainly be using it.

I'll try and post some results here.

I had just noticed that the ICA Ideal sported an identical looking shutter and lens in an online photo.

[IanG]

I had just noticed that the ICA Ideal sported an identical looking shutter and lens in an online photo.

ICA was partly owned by Carl Xeiss so Tessar lenses in Copmur shutters were the norm on their better cameras :D

Ian