Is a Sinar Norma an upgrade from F1?

[jonbrisbincreative]

Although I like my Sinar F system, I find the high rail clamp of the F creates a lot of torque on my tripod head and tripod. It's also a rather wobbly setup out in the field.

After doing some research here and other places it seems maybe I should have more seriously considered a Norma rather than the F. I got a pretty good deal on the camera, hard case, bellows, etc... So I can easily recoop my expenses on what won't transfer over but I wonder if "upgrading" to the older Norma would give me the solid lock down of an all metal camera but still be portable like a field camera but with rear shift and rise which I would very much miss on a similarly priced field camera.

I tend to mount the camera directly to the tripod without a head to reduce weight and add stability. But I need a lot of rear movement that way since it's not super easy to point down without the head.

[Jim Noel]

I prefer the Norma. It is the grandfather of Sinars, and more stable and there are plenty of accessories for it as there are for all Sinars. If you can get one with the original gray case you will have the basics of a great outfit.

[RSalles]

If it's an upgrade I don't now, but, if someone would like to change a 9/10 condition Norma with my 9/10 F2 I would do it with zero doubt. Last year I bought one for a friend, and took some days cleaning and adjusting it for him, replacing bublle levers, lubbing, etc. The Norma is a superior camera in terms of precision and craft in every aspect you can imagine compared against a F or F2 but I can name only two things that pleases me more in the F2: yaw-free and the depth of view scale. Also, it seems to be more compact, maybe by its metal polished finish.

Cheers,

Renato

[Steven Tribe]

Norma owners consider the F series as a step back. P owners consider theirs a great improvement on the F series. F series people are quite happy too.

[Mark Sampson]

I now shoot with a Norma and have used an F2 extensively. The Norma is better made and finished, like a 1960s Mercedes-Benz. Many, like mine, now need a cleanup and re-lube but are still working. The F2 is a very elegant design, and its quality is still top-notch. The yaw-free design, dof calculator, etc. are nice, especially in the studio, but I don't miss them. A great compromise would be an F2 with the short Norma rail clamp instead of its original tall one- just for compactness in the field. Really, hard to go wrong either way.

[Richard Wasserman]

Mark beat me to it. I'd suggest looking at getting a Norma rail clamp and Sinar tripod head. Compact and very rigid. A Norma is a great camera, I own one and have used it extensively, but they are bulkier than the F series cameras. It sounds like you are basically happy with what you have and a new rail clamp and head might solve your issues.

[Drew Wiley]

To answer your question, absolutely. But it's a bit more complex if you're trying to decide between an F2 and Norma. You can mix and match most of the components anyway. The F2 has a far more durable front standard than the F1, and smoother delrin gearing and rail sliders (clamshells) than the Norma. The
rear standard also has some tweaks, but necessary only if you're using an internal metering probe. I've owned all these and worked them to death not only in
architecture and studio application, but over thousands of miles of backpacking in all kinds of weather. But my geezerhood gift to myself was a very clean Norma (condition is everything in these older models). It doesn't have the yaw-free controls of the F's or P's; but that is rarely an issue in landscape work. It's more stable and rugged than an F2, but only a pound heavier the way I configure it. All the bellows etc are interchangeable. But I vastly prefer the original tapered bellows of the Norma to the later box bellows. So yeah, overall, the Norma system is my favorite.

[Daniel Unkefer]

Well to absolutely, absolutely answer your question..... :)

I started with the F+ doing commercial architectural photography. I was able to fairly easily break the F+. I quickly moved to the Norma and have been happy ever since. Now I have two 4x5 Normas, a 5x7 Norma, and an 8x10 Norma. And I have just about every original accessory you can see in the original catalogs. I also have a complete set of the original lenses designed by Sinar for the cameras. I never have regretted building up the complete Norma system.

Condition does not mean everything with these cameras. You can rebuild these cameras even if they are well trashed, if you are handy. Usually a partial stripdown and relube is all they need.

[rfesk]

I had a 5X7 Norma. Liked it a lot but wanted something smaller to use in the field and went to a Bush Pressman. The Pressman is fine for most of my photography but for architecture the available movements are sorely lacking. Now I have added an F2 (4x5) but only after a lot of thoughts concerning the high rail clamp.

It seems that the high rail clamp is not much of a problem to overcome if you have a sufficiently rigid tripod head and tripod. I think I have solved the problem to my satisfaction for the present. That said, I come across a Norma rail clamp I won't pass it up.

[rfesk]

Sinar makes/made a head that allows just the movement required i.e. to tilt the camera down. I made one from a Bogen tilt head that works quite well but not equal to the Sinar tilt head.

"I tend to mount the camera directly to the tripod without a head to reduce weight and add stability. But I need a lot of rear movement that way since it's not super easy to point down without the head."

[Bruce Barlow]

Yup.

[Jeff Keller]

I would second the comment that you should get a Sinar tilt/pan head. I haven't even touched an "F" but the Sinar head locks down a "P" quickly and solidly.

However just the aesthetics of a Norma can be enough reason to get one. They are beautiful cameras.

-jeff

[moltogordo]

I'll tell you what I think . . . . I have a Sinar F2 in almost mint condition, and I chose it over the Norma because I wanted a dedicated tabletop yaw free machine. It was fine, but when I got hold of a Toyo GX, I found this camera so ergonomic and intuitive for me to use that my F2 has languished in a closet for over a year. Much too nice a camera for that, so I have a buyer and will use the money to buy myself a 5x7 Norma when one comes up.

There is just something about that old beauty . . . . nothing like it at all!

[Daniel Unkefer]

There is just something about that old beauty . . . . nothing like it at all!


Yup. Exactly. And that is why there is a 4x5 Norma on permanent display in The Museum of Modern Art in NYC, as an industrial design object.
IMO it is most quick and responsive with the Norma Pan/Tilt Head. It does add some weight but it's worth it. The Norma head is an integral part of the Norma design, part of the camera, really. I have four or five of them and they can be had on the cheap if you are not in a hurry.